I do read the Bible every day, Dex. I am currently reading through Isaiah and Psalms.
God is Just and Remembers
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I do read the Bible every day, Dex. I am currently reading through Isaiah and Psalms.
I'm sure you do, I'd probably have assumed that if I'd thought about it, but I'd question whether you really understand it. God's reported as being very nasty in Isaiah, threatening to kill all the men, have their wives ravished, their children dashed against rocks, destroying the world. He appears mean, and angry at everybody, and ready to use his power to do horrible things to anyone he can find.
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"I will mention the lovingkindnesses of the Lord, and the praises of the Lord, according to all that the Lord hath bestowed on us, and the great goodness toward the house of Israel, which he hath bestowed on them according to his mercies, and according to the multitude of his lovingkindnesses." (Isaiah 63:7, KJV)
But only after he's done a lot of damage.
Isaiah 5:35: God gets angry, he’ll smite people and spread their dismembered bodies in the street.
“Therefore is the anger of the LORD kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets.”
Isaiah 9:19-20: God will burn people in fire, make brothers kill each other, and make people eat their own flesh.
“Through the wrath of the LORD of hosts is the land darkened, and the people shall be as the fuel of the fire: no man shall spare his brother. And he shall snatch on the right hand, and be hungry; and he shall eat on the left hand, and they shall not be satisfied: they shall eat every man the flesh of his own arm”
Isaiah 13:15-16: Everyone god can find will be killed with a sword, their children will be dashed to pieces in front of them, their homes destroyed, and all the wives will be raped.
“Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished.”
Isaiah 14:21: God will kill children for things their ancestors did.
“Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with cities.”
Isaiah 37:36: God sends an angel into an Assyrian encampment to kill 185,000 people.
“Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.”
We can play this game indefinitely and get nowhere interesting or useful.
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Here is your key, Dex. It unlocks everything interesting and useful.
“If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you.” (James 1:5)
As I've said before, I simply don't believe that. I know of no reason to, and plenty of reasons not to.
The prophet concludes the revelation with this forecast, Cliffy:
“The hand of the LORD will be made known to his servants, but his fury will be shown to his foes.” (Isaiah 66:14b, NIV)
In my experience, Isaiah is a servant, who pre-figures Christ:
“Who, being in very nature God,
did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
rather, he made himself nothing
by taking the very nature of a servant,
being made in human likeness.
And being found in appearance as a man,
he humbled himself
by becoming obedient to death—
even death on a cross!
Therefore God exalted him to the highest place
and gave him the name that is above every name,
that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,
in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord,
to the glory of God the Father.“ (Philippians 2:6-11)
Did you know that when Einstein gave lectures at the numerous US universities he was invited to, the recurring question that students asked him was:
Do you believe in God?
And he always answered:
I believe in the God of Spinoza.
The ones who hadn't read Spinoza didn't understand…
I hope this gem of history, serves you as much as it does me.
Baruch de Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher considered one of the three great rationalists of 17th-century philosophy, along with René Descartes in France, and Gottfried Leibniz in Germany.
Here's some of his wisdom:
God would have said:
Stop praying and punching yourself in the chest!
What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to enjoy, sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.
Stop going to those dark, cold temples that you built yourself and say they are my house! My house is in the mountains, in the woods, rivers, lakes, beaches. That's where I live and there I express my love for you.
Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you there was anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner, or that your sexuality was a bad thing! Sex is a gift I have given you and with which you can express your love, your ecstasy, your joy. So don't blame me for everything they made you believe.
Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends, in your son's eyes... you will find me in no book! Trust me and stop asking me. Would you tell me how to do my job?
Stop being so scared of me. I do not judge you or criticize you, nor get angry, or seek to punish you. I am pure love.
Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... free will. How can I blame you if you respond to something I put in you? How can I punish you for being the way you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who behave badly for the rest of eternity? What kind of God would do that?
Forget any kind of commandments, any kind of laws; those are wiles to manipulate you, to control you, that only create guilt in you.
Respect your peers and don't do what you don't want for yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that your consciousness is your guide.
My beloved, this life is not a test, not a step, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to paradise. This life is the only thing that exists here and now, and it is all you need.
I have set you absolutely free, no prizes or punishments, no sins or virtues... no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.
You are absolutely free to create in your life heaven or hell.
I could tell you if there's anything after this life, but I won't... but I can give you a tip. Live as if there is nothing after... as if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.
So, if there's nothing, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved right or wrong, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...
Stop believing in me; believing is assuming, guessing, imagining. I don't want you to believe in me... I want you to feel me in you when you kiss your beloved, when you tuck in your little girl, when you caress your dog, when you bathe in the sea.
Stop praising me, what kind of egomaniac God do you think I am?
I'm bored being praised, I'm tired of being thanked. Feeling grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world. Express your joy!... that's the way to praise me.
Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been taught about me.
The only thing for sure is that you are here, that you are alive, and that this world is full of wonders.
What do you need more miracles for? Why so many explanations?
Look for me outside... you won't find me. Find me inside... there I am beating within you.
—Spinoza.
Do you believe in God?
And he always answered:
I believe in the God of Spinoza.
The ones who hadn't read Spinoza didn't understand…
I hope this gem of history, serves you as much as it does me.
Baruch de Spinoza was a Dutch philosopher considered one of the three great rationalists of 17th-century philosophy, along with René Descartes in France, and Gottfried Leibniz in Germany.
Here's some of his wisdom:
God would have said:
Stop praying and punching yourself in the chest!
What I want you to do is go out into the world and enjoy your life. I want you to enjoy, sing, have fun and enjoy everything I've made for you.
Stop going to those dark, cold temples that you built yourself and say they are my house! My house is in the mountains, in the woods, rivers, lakes, beaches. That's where I live and there I express my love for you.
Stop blaming me for your miserable life; I never told you there was anything wrong with you or that you were a sinner, or that your sexuality was a bad thing! Sex is a gift I have given you and with which you can express your love, your ecstasy, your joy. So don't blame me for everything they made you believe.
Stop reading alleged sacred scriptures that have nothing to do with me. If you can't read me in a sunrise, in a landscape, in the look of your friends, in your son's eyes... you will find me in no book! Trust me and stop asking me. Would you tell me how to do my job?
Stop being so scared of me. I do not judge you or criticize you, nor get angry, or seek to punish you. I am pure love.
Stop asking for forgiveness, there's nothing to forgive. If I made you... I filled you with passions, limitations, pleasures, feelings, needs, inconsistencies... free will. How can I blame you if you respond to something I put in you? How can I punish you for being the way you are, if I'm the one who made you? Do you think I could create a place to burn all my children who behave badly for the rest of eternity? What kind of God would do that?
Forget any kind of commandments, any kind of laws; those are wiles to manipulate you, to control you, that only create guilt in you.
Respect your peers and don't do what you don't want for yourself. All I ask is that you pay attention in your life, that your consciousness is your guide.
My beloved, this life is not a test, not a step, not a rehearsal, nor a prelude to paradise. This life is the only thing that exists here and now, and it is all you need.
I have set you absolutely free, no prizes or punishments, no sins or virtues... no one carries a marker, no one keeps a record.
You are absolutely free to create in your life heaven or hell.
I could tell you if there's anything after this life, but I won't... but I can give you a tip. Live as if there is nothing after... as if this is your only chance to enjoy, to love, to exist.
So, if there's nothing, then you will have enjoyed the opportunity I gave you. And if there is, rest assured that I won't ask if you behaved right or wrong, I'll ask. Did you like it? Did you have fun? What did you enjoy the most? What did you learn?...
Stop believing in me; believing is assuming, guessing, imagining. I don't want you to believe in me... I want you to feel me in you when you kiss your beloved, when you tuck in your little girl, when you caress your dog, when you bathe in the sea.
Stop praising me, what kind of egomaniac God do you think I am?
I'm bored being praised, I'm tired of being thanked. Feeling grateful? Prove it by taking care of yourself, your health, your relationships, the world. Express your joy!... that's the way to praise me.
Stop complicating things and repeating as a parakeet what you've been taught about me.
The only thing for sure is that you are here, that you are alive, and that this world is full of wonders.
What do you need more miracles for? Why so many explanations?
Look for me outside... you won't find me. Find me inside... there I am beating within you.
—Spinoza.
It is how I perceive the creative force that animates all life: it is non judgemental, unconditional love. Religion is man made nonesense, the so called holy books were written by men to control the masses. If you had any idea of the true history of the book you hold so dear, you would burn it and go seek your truth within your own soul.
People don't have souls, souls have people.
“Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own” (1 Corinthians 6:19)
What a ridiculous idea. Nobody's suggested any such thing. Not Cliffy, not me, not Einstein, and not Spinoza, that's just your misreading of Cliffy's post #89.
An ad hominem response would be saying you're ridiculous. I said the idea is ridiculous.
“Now when Joshua was near Jericho, he looked up and saw a man standing in front of him with a drawn sword in his hand. Joshua went up to him and asked, ‘Are you for us or for our enemies?’ ‘Neither,’ he replied, ‘but as commander of the army of the Lord I have now come.” (Joshua 5:13-14a)
I’m with him, Dex : )