God is Just and Remembers

Dexter Sinister

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Ask for wisdom, Dex. (Hebrews 11:6)
There's nobody to ask, except possibly for the people in my life who know more than I do or have more experience than I do about... well, whatever I'm curious about I suppose. I was raised in a seriously Christian household, but I stopped praying when logic and reason told me I was just talking to myself.
 

Motar

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There's nobody to ask ... I was raised in a seriously Christian household, but I stopped praying when logic and reason told me I was just talking to myself.

Reasoned faith instructed and inspired Abraham:

“By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. He who had embraced the promises was about to sacrifice his one and only son, even though God had said to him, ‘It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.’ Abraham reasoned that God could even raise the dead, and so in a manner of speaking he did receive Isaac back from death.” (Hebrews 11:17-19, KJV).

Ask for wisdom, Dex. This is a personal invitation. Wisdom is standing by.
 

Dexter Sinister

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...I speculate that, not having had alcohol for millennia, and therefore not having the chance to get used to it, we never reduced the alcoholic genes in our gene pool.
I read or heard something about that years ago which suggested that North American Native people's carbohydrate metabolism differs from that of Europeans, such that if you and I got roaring drunk one night and passed out, I'd wake up sober but with a vicious hangover, you'd wake up still drunk and ready for more. Dunno if that's true or not, sounds like it may just be part of colonialism's racist narrative. Anyway, not an experiment I'm interested in trying.
If it's of interest to you, probably the most simply drinkable Irish is The Proper Twelve. Reasonably priced and far better than Jameson or Bushmills, the usual offerings. But at some point you have to try Green Spot, Redbreast, and Greenore.
It is indeed of interest. I've tried the usual offerings, found them a little harsh, Redbreast is available here and I agree is much to be preferred, the others you mention aren't on the shelves here. When this Covid pestilence ends and I can freely get to bigger cities again I'll look around for them. I have made a note to myself... ;-)
 

Dexter Sinister

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“By faith Abraham, when God tested him, offered Isaac as a sacrifice. ... "
To my mind that's one of the most horrible stories in the OT. God instructs Abraham to sacrifice his son, he prepares to do so, then at the last moment god comes along and says, in effect, "Nope, ha ha, kidding, just testing you." Then there's the story in 2 Kings 2:23-24 where god sends two bears to maul 42 children to death for the heinous crime of mocking Elisha's baldness. I'm not asking for wisdom from anyone who behaves like that, that's a psychopath.
 

Motar

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To my mind that's one of the most horrible stories in the OT. God instructs Abraham to sacrifice his son, he prepares to do so, then at the last moment god comes along and says, in effect, "Nope, ha ha, kidding, just testing you." Then there's the story in 2 Kings 2:23-24 where god sends two bears to maul 42 children to death for the heinous crime of mocking Elisha's baldness. I'm not asking for wisdom from anyone who behaves like that, that's a psychopath.

You rightly acknowledge that you and I are not ancient Hebrews. The historical and cultural contexts here are foreign to us. Also, our inherited intellectual capabilities are limiting. We should be able to apprehend the prophetic implications here but the performance of our CPUs is suboptimal.

These things are spiritually discerned. The invitation stands, Dex.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Is that how Christians rationalize what by any measure is a truly dreadful story, by claiming the meanings of things so horrible in terms of normal human sensibilities are spiritually discerned? I think that's a meaningless statement. Or are you suggesting that murdering one's only son on divine command was acceptable behaviour in the historical and cultural context of the ancient Hebrews? I will not be accepting your invitation, my condemnation of god's psychopathic behaviour stands.
 

Motar

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Is that how Christians rationalize what by any measure is a truly dreadful story, by claiming the meanings of things so horrible in terms of normal human sensibilities are spiritually discerned? I think that's a meaningless statement. Or are you suggesting that murdering one's only son on divine command was acceptable behaviour in the historical and cultural context of the ancient Hebrews? I will not be accepting your invitation, my condemnation of god's psychopathic behaviour stands.

No and no, Dex.

The invitation is not from me:

"For the Lord gives wisdom;
from his mouth come knowledge and understanding;
he stores up sound wisdom for the upright;
he is a shield to those who walk blamelessly,
guarding the paths of justice
and preserving the way of his faithful ones.
Then you will understand righteousness and justice
and equity, every good path;
for wisdom will come into your heart,
and knowledge will be pleasant to your soul;
prudence will watch over you;
and understanding will guard you." (Proverbs 2:6-10)
 

Dexter Sinister

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The invitation is not from me:
From your post #42: "Ask for wisdom, Dex. This is a personal invitation. Wisdom is standing by." Sure looked like it came from you, though I did get that it wasn't you I should be asking. Not that it makes any real difference, I still decline the invitation, because I don't believe there's any substance to it. I know of no evidence that would indicate, or even hint, that anyone's listening. I'll have to get my wisdom the hard way, figuring things out myself.
 
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Cliffy

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Yup, god's wisdom allows millions of children to starve to death, get raped, abused, murdered and sold into slavery every day. That is a guy who I want to believe in alright. NOT! Anybody who does, has more than a few screws loose.
 

Motar

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From your post #42: I still decline the invitation, because I don't believe there's any substance to it. I know of no evidence that would indicate, or even hint, that anyone's listening.

Solomon accepted the invitation:

“That night God appeared to Solomon and said to him, ‘Ask for whatever you want me to give you.’ Solomon answered God, ‘You have shown great kindness to David my father and have made me king in his place. Now, Lord God, let your promise to my father David be confirmed, for you have made me king over a people who are as numerous as the dust of the earth. Give me wisdom and knowledge, that I may lead this people, for who is able to govern this great people of yours?’

God said to Solomon, ‘Since this is your heart’s desire and you have not asked for wealth, possessions or honor, nor for the death of your enemies, and since you have not asked for a long life but for wisdom and knowledge to govern my people over whom I have made you king, therefore wisdom and knowledge will be given you. And I will also give you wealth, possessions and honor, such as no king who was before you ever had and none after you will have.” (2 Chronicles 1:7-12)

Solomon had to arrive at the place where he recognized the wisdom of God above his own. Ask for wisdom, Dex, and you will have your evidence.
 

Cliffy

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Solomon had to arrive at the place where he recognized the wisdom of God above his own. Ask for wisdom, Dex, and you will have your evidence.
Now you are getting self righteous and that is one of the greatest sins a religious person can commit. You think that be reading an ancient text that you know god's will, its mind but that is delusional at best. You have to judge another to think you know what is best for them. "Judge not lest ye shall be judged." You have crossed that line and are treading on thin ice.
 

DaSleeper

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Now you are getting self righteous and that is one of the greatest sins a religious person can commit. You think that be reading an ancient text that you know god's will, its mind but that is delusional at best. You have to judge another to think you know what is best for them. "Judge not lest ye shall be judged." You have crossed that line and are treading on thin ice.




Isn't that what you yourself do all the time?


Don't we all do it in this forum?
 

Motar

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Isn't that what you yourself do all the time? Don't we all do it in this forum?

You are literally standing across the threshold of the door with one foot inside the kingdom, DS!

If you're interested, here is an example of how we fully step inside (Luke 23:39-43)
 

Dexter Sinister

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Solomon had to arrive at the place where he recognized the wisdom of God above his own. Ask for wisdom, Dex, and you will have your evidence.
Nothing like the certainty of the true believer. Whatever I could get that way would not constitute evidence, nobody could see it but me, so it fails the most basic test of what evidence is. I find such certainty a little vexatious. How would you respond if I advised you to read Christopher HItchens' God is Not Great, Richard Dawkins' The God Delusion, and Sam Harris' The End of Faith, with a promise that they would make an unbeliever out of you? You wouldn't take that seriously for a second. That's exactly how I feel about your earnest advice. Bluntly, I'm sure you mean well but after decades of study and thought I'm convinced you're completely wrong and I will not take that advice. If you've got some evidence other than personal testimonial, I'd like to see it, but as things are, for me the evidence and arguments I've seen offered in support of what you believe (and I don't mean just by you) are not sufficient to justify accepting it as true.

Actually I do think you should read those books. I wouldn't make that promise about them, but you too need to understand that you must never lose sight of the fact that you might be wrong.
 

Dexter Sinister

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I am not vexed by your certainty, Dex.
I was pretty sure weren't understanding me. I thought I'd made it clear several times that I was claiming only what I understood to be most probably true, not certainty, and that I'm open to contrary arguments. And if you're not here to convert anyone, why did you start a thread called "God is Just and Remembers" and another called "All Will be Made Alive?" They're fairly standard Christian evangelical dogma, and they sure look like preaching to me.
 
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Motar

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And if you're not here to convert anyone, why did you start a thread called "God is Just and Remembers" and another called "All Will be Made Alive?" They're fairly standard Christian evangelical dogma, and they sure look like preaching to me.

The thread titles are summaries of the Scripture passages included in the OPs, Dex.

I am not here to convert anyone. Conversion is the work of the Holy Spirit.

I am indeed presenting portions of Scripture in my posts.

“As the rain and the snow
come down from heaven,
and do not return to it
without watering the earth
and making it bud and flourish,
so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater,
so is my word that goes out from my mouth:
It will not return to me empty,
but will accomplish what I desire
and achieve the purpose for which I sent it.” (Isaiah 55:10-11)

The LORD’s purposes are being accomplished, however, not mine.
 

Dexter Sinister

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The LORD’s purposes are being accomplished, however, not mine.
You're aiding and abetting him though, by witnessing on his behalf about what you presume his purposes to be, supported by cherry-picked biblical citations, and encouraging others, me in particular, to accept the message. Hard to see that as anything but proselytizing.