Genocide in Canada

[CDNBear]

Just enough to qualify if I really wanted to. You can see some of the genetic characteristics in me (like the hair, a bit in the eyes, slightly darker skin tone), but my little brother is white beyond white.

My dad is really gunghoe about it but I think thats partly because my grandmother was so ashamed about it (for some reason that I don't understand). I think its kind of interesting that I have an ancestor that was tried alongside Reil (Arcand was sentenced to one year, he had something like ten kids that his wife would have had to take care of alone during that time).

It was also nice to show up my college prof who was going on and on about her ancestors, and how they helped found Calgary, blah, blah, blah. You should have seen her face when she found out that there was someone in the class with a better story than her's. Man, was she ever a bitch.

Good goin'! That's funny about your prof. The closest I came, to anything like that was when I was expelled for punching out my History teacher when he refused to stop calling the Iroquois filthy savages. I wasn't very tolerant back then, and I had even less control of my rage,lol.

 

[ponygurl]

Many things happened in the 60's in Canada that people don't want to believe. We like to believe we were pretty humane then.
The Residential Schools, unreported child molestations by Priests, frontal lobotomies, unconsented electroshock therapy (without aneasthesia).. our gentle Canadians weren't all so gentle.

 

[Said1]

Doesn't that mean Said1 that it was murder anyway if they did not treat them or at less negligent manslaughter. You have a child dying and you stick healthy children with him or her, that is wrong, and don't treat any?

Also thanks for the link.

I'm not saying it's excusable. I'm saying it's not surprising, espeically when so many other undesirable members of various societies were left to die of the same causes, in living conditions much worse than residential schools. Today, at least in most parts of North America that wouldn't happen. Notice I said 'most' parts of North America?

 

[Said1]

Many things happened in the 60's in Canada that people don't want to believe. We like to believe we were pretty humane then.
The Residential Schools, unreported child molestations by Priests, frontal lobotomies, unconsented electroshock therapy (without aneasthesia).. our gentle Canadians weren't all so gentle.

I don't find that hard to beleive. That was standard treatment for extremelly mentally and not so mentally ill patients around the world. As for the rampant sexual abuse within the Catholic church, people were shocked simply because no one was talking about it, just as they weren't talking about being abused by a parent husband or nextdoor neighbour. No one is really shocked anymore. I think people today are probably shocked by how common sexual abuse actually was/is regardless of the perpetrator - or maybe it's just me.

 

[LittleRunningGag]

Good goin'! That's funny about your prof. The closest I came, to anything like that was when I was expelled for punching out my History teacher when he refused to stop calling the Iroquois filthy savages. I wasn't very tolerant back then, and I had even less control of my rage,lol.

Meh, she wasn't a racist or anything like that. She was just old bat, with a PhD in History, who was completely full of herself and her family history. She reminded me of those rich people you see in movies that go on and on about their family traditions and such.

It was just fun to show her up.

 

[Dexter Sinister]

... nothing more then litigated welfare. And I'll have no part of it.

So what are you going on about then? It appears I have missed your point entirely, even after carefully re-reading this entire thread twice. If it's not about justice and restitution, what *is* it about? I know residential schools were awful, I know violence was built into the system, I know I'll never fully comprehend what it's like to be aboriginal in this culture because I'm part of the dominant majority. I'm a healthy, middle aged, successful, university educated, English speaking heterosexual white male, a member of what is probably the most privileged group of people in the history of human civilization. But dammit, I do try to understand, I try to be a decent human being, I try not to be racist, and by and large I think I succeed, but I just don't know what to do with people who come on like you do. Sure, aboriginal people have legitimate grievances, I understand that much at least and I'm fully prepared to support legitimate and workable attempts at restitution, but you can't make me feel guilty over things I had nothing to do with and didn't even know about until a few years ago. That's a loser's game. I've sat around a negotiating table as a representative of the federal government with aboriginal people who tried that one as their opening tactic, and it's just not on.

What I don't understand, what I've never been able to figure out, is this: exactly what is it you want from this society you find yourselves in? And if you got it all, what would you do then?

 

[Researcher87]

Just to update. I have gone through my internet info, and reduced it, updated my written and still have six books and a number of journals to go through. Have some good statistics and looking into additional statistics about Aboriginal children, and going to residential schools.

Just phoned Amnesty International and theTruth Commission into Genocide in Canada, and will be having two interviews next week.

However, it is not all too bad as I have read and document a school supervisor and with the interview next week.

 

[Researcher87]

Well the toughest thing i have had to do is read the oral histories of the young children that died in these schools, book after book. Oh well, its working to somewhere.

 

[Researcher87]

So I urge people to read the book Hidden From History: The Untold story of Genocide in Canada as well as some other books:

For example, J.R. Miller Shingenawska Vision, (I might have spelt the name wrong), and Mr. Millroy are also good authors.

As well as an article by Erin Grey which is very good.

 

[Researcher87]

Well I guess I will bring this back.

So anyone have any opinions to the genocide that occured in Canada.

 

[amagqira]

There is an interesting graph in this link on aboriginal population increase (census figures) from 1901:
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/companion/abor/canada.cfm
Any interpretation however will be IMHO only speculative.

 

[gc]

There is an interesting graph in this link on aboriginal population increase (census figures) from 1901:
http://www12.statcan.ca/english/census01/Products/Analytic/companion/abor/canada.cfm
Any interpretation however will be IMHO only speculative.

The increase in population probably has something to do with the fact that it includes anyone with "some" Native ancestry. There is obviously some breeding between Natives and non-Natives, but even though the kids are only 50% Native, they would still be included on the graph.

Actually, considering that, it seems odd that the numbers increased very slowly before 1960. I'm sure there must have been Natives and non-Natives having children before that?

 

[amagqira]

Anecdotal evidence is probably the weakest form of scientific evidence, especially when they are recorded 50+ years later. I'm afraid that Res_87 will have to depend on i) Tracing of official records and unofficial letters and ii) Circumstantial evidence such as population growth or as in this case - the lack thereof.

The population graph is even to my untrained eye grossly abnormal ( flat population growth over 50 years and suddenly exponential growth over the next 50 years) and there is an explanation given, the problem is that the authors of that document have used the non-aboriginal population as a control group, and unless you can manage to control for variables such as immigration, different socioeconomic status, epidemics, access to medical help etc., you cannot use them as a control group. It is however, impossible for population figures to only grow by 25% over 50 years unless some major disaster, man made or otherwise occurred.

I am not a researcher or knowledgeable on population research but my common sense tells me that one way to go would be to compare those statistics with a similiar control group, not subject to residential schooling (maybe the USA) and to specifically look at mortality rates of different ages, i) preresidential school ii) residential school age and iii) post residential school age if you want to make the point that residential schools were responsible for the high mortality rates. And then you get to ask more questions.

 

[Researcher87]

Anecdotal evidence is probably the weakest form of scientific evidence, especially when they are recorded 50+ years later. I'm afraid that Res_87 will have to depend on i) Tracing of official records and unofficial letters and ii) Circumstantial evidence such as population growth or as in this case - the lack thereof.

The population graph is even to my untrained eye grossly abnormal ( flat population growth over 50 years and suddenly exponential growth over the next 50 years) and there is an explanation given, the problem is that the authors of that document have used the non-aboriginal population as a control group, and unless you can manage to control for variables such as immigration, different socioeconomic status, epidemics, access to medical help etc., you cannot use them as a control group. It is however, impossible for population figures to only grow by 25% over 50 years unless some major disaster, man made or otherwise occurred.

I am not a researcher or knowledgeable on population research but my common sense tells me that one way to go would be to compare those statistics with a similiar control group, not subject to residential schooling (maybe the USA) and to specifically look at mortality rates of different ages, i) preresidential school ii) residential school age and iii) post residential school age if you want to make the point that residential schools were responsible for the high mortality rates. And then you get to ask more questions.

I am not looking at that though. Only to see if they destroyed culture. I just put genocide in Canada to get peoples attention on the issue, I am researching another topic.

 

[annabattler]

There's absolutely no doubt that the government/church run schools for native children were an abomination....mostly for the fact that they separated families...and as we all know,once a family system has been fractured,it cannot ever be wholly repaired.
Just ask children who have been removed from their families by provincial children's agencies...those family ties,the ones that offer us support and sustenance through life's ups and downs,are very hard to find outside the family.
In present day, we have the scenario of multiple suicides by children/teenagers living in Inuit communities. How many have been flown "out" to residential centres,only to be returned(without appropriate community supports for themselves or their families) and then commit suicide? One might quibble with the words holocaust or genocide...no matter what word is used, it is an ongoing tragedy.

 

[Researcher87]

There's absolutely no doubt that the government/church run schools for native children were an abomination....mostly for the fact that they separated families...and as we all know,once a family system has been fractured,it cannot ever be wholly repaired.
Just ask children who have been removed from their families by provincial children's agencies...those family ties,the ones that offer us support and sustenance through life's ups and downs,are very hard to find outside the family.
In present day, we have the scenario of multiple suicides by children/teenagers living in Inuit communities. How many have been flown "out" to residential centres,only to be returned(without appropriate community supports for themselves or their families) and then commit suicide? One might quibble with the words holocaust or genocide...no matter what word is used, it is an ongoing tragedy.

Good point

 

[RomSpaceKnight]

Can you imagine if we took the children of all new immigrants away from their parents and beat them if they did not speak English? Genocide or Holocaust similarities I don't think so. A general contempt for and a don't give a ****e attitude wether they lived or died probably. The residential school system is in my opinion the low point of Canadian history. What we inflicted on natives is unacceptable and we deserve to pay through the nose for it.

 

[Researcher87]

Agreed.