Free trade vs. Fair trade

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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How does fair market sustain banana production if the bananas are already in sustainable supply through an unfair market?
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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How does fair market sustain banana production if the bananas are already in sustainable supply through an unfair market?

If sustainability isn't a problem, why are you even asking the question?
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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I disagree.

One fair trade principle appears to be sustainability. In a free market, this just isn't possible - even if you remove any societal or ethical injustice and have two states where there is nothing holding them back but their own economies.

I disagree. Regulation and trade barriers aren't necessarily the same thing. Economic policy apoplying within a country's borders that are not intended to discriminate against imports is not a trade barrier per se since local and foreign producers must abide by the same rules. For example, a Canadian breakfast cereal producer must print the box bilingually in French and English, as do his foreign competitors. This policy does not apply to the competitors only and so does not discriminate and is thus still free trade.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Sustainability of what?
Natural resources. When I first came to BC there were signs every where that forestry was a sustainable industry. But over logging has taken all the economically viable trees and the industry is now struggling. I've talked to loggers who knew 15 years ago that their children would never be able to work in the industry because of unsustainable practices. We do not have an infinite supply f resources and eventually will run out. But we will probably choke to death in our own sh!t (pollution) before that happens.
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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I disagree. Regulation and trade barriers aren't necessarily the same thing. Economic policy apoplying within a country's borders that are not intended to discriminate against imports is not a trade barrier per se since local and foreign producers must abide by the same rules. For example, a Canadian breakfast cereal producer must print the box bilingually in French and English, as do his foreign competitors. This policy does not apply to the competitors only and so does not discriminate and is thus still free trade.

Right, but this doesn't deny that even with trade barriers in place, unregulated free trade could still be harmful to sustainable development.
 

Machjo

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Right, but this doesn't deny that even with trade barriers in place, unregulated free trade could still be harmful to sustainable development.

You cannot have totally free trade with trade barriers by definition, since trade barriers limit free trade by definition.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Do you think that going head to head with this chunk of forest and it's close location to high demand markets had anything to do it?
 

mentalfloss

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Jun 28, 2010
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How can any determination of sustainability really be made if we don't fully understand the supply and can't predict the demand?

Those are some of the key questions that are acknowledged in economic feasibility studies.

You cannot have totally free trade with trade barriers by definition, since trade barriers limit free trade by definition.

Sorry, I misread your earlier post about trade barriers and free trade.

The point still stands that free trade does not magically allow for sustainable development.
 

captain morgan

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Those are some of the key questions that are acknowledged in economic feasibility studies.


Fair enough, but if that is a critical factor in the fair trade equation, I can't see there being any progress in the efforts.

Let's not forget the big picture here; you are still trying to compare 2 (or multiple) economies, cultures, etc and attempting to make them 'equal' in terms of fairness... The goal in this case is a pipe dream at best
 

Machjo

Hall of Fame Member
Oct 19, 2004
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Those are some of the key questions that are acknowledged in economic feasibility studies.



Sorry, I misread your earlier post about trade barriers and free trade.

The point still stands that free trade does not magically allow for sustainable development.

No it doesn't, but they are two separate issues. You could have fair trade but unsustainable develoment just as you could have unfair trade but still sustainable development. In some respects they are two separate debates.
 

Cliffy

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Nov 19, 2008
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Do you think that going head to head with this chunk of forest and it's close location to high demand markets had anything to do it?



No. Over cutting here has just as much to do with it. You might find that the same corporate giants that raped BC are over in Siberia now raping it.

The picture is just a short section of the highway between Nakusp and Vernon.
 

mentalfloss

Prickly Curmudgeon Smiter
Jun 28, 2010
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Fair enough, but if that is a critical factor in the fair trade equation, I can't see there being any progress in the efforts.

Of course it is. Sustainability is increasingly relevant every year. It's a major economic concept.

Let's not forget the big picture here; you are still trying to compare 2 (or multiple) economies, cultures, etc and attempting to make them 'equal' in terms of fairness... The goal in this case is a pipe dream at best

What is fair and just is a concept that is always changing. As we evolve, we make incremental adjustments to policy which we feel would be attributed to helping these causes. The "goal" as you put it, will always change as we continue to discuss social, environmental and economic policy - and how these three perspectives work with each other.

No it doesn't, but they are two separate issues. You could have fair trade but unsustainable develoment just as you could have unfair trade but still sustainable development. In some respects they are two separate debates.

Of course.