First Nations Treaties

[Machjo]

Ah 5P. But there's a problem here. What happens when the demagoguic will of the majority conflicts with ethics, the law, and contracts?

Ah, gotta love demagoguery...

Oh, sorry, I emant democracy. Democracy, honest!

 

[lone wolf]

I wonder how many Treaties have actually run their courses as generations passed or waters that run free were dammed?

 

[Machjo]

I agree with you...to a point..... the "decades" thing I say BS to. It's been centuries already. We make the offer, if they can't agree, then we impose the offer. If our exising laws won't support it, then we change the laws to allow it and use the "not withstanding clause" to push it through.

Don't ya love it. If you dont' like a contract, let the demagoguic will of the majority prevail.

 

[CDNBear]

I agree with you...to a point..... the "decades" thing I say BS to. It's been centuries already. We make the offer, if they can't agree, then we impose the offer. If our exising laws won't support it, then we change the laws to allow it and use the "not withstanding clause" to push it through.

Speaking of pipe dreams.

No pol's have the balls to use that clause to fix more serious issues. You think they're gunna risk their political neck over us...

Pass the peace pipe and a bag of whatever you be smoking skippy.

 

[lone wolf]

But I'm not sure how it affected gay white males?

...and that has what to do with the topic?

 

[CDNBear]

I wonder how many Treaties have actually run their courses as generations passed or waters that run free were dammed?

Tried and failed. Even though some treaties have the phrases...

"So long as the sun shines"

"So long as the rivers flow"

It is in the premise that the bond is made, not the literal translation.

Don't ya love it. If you dont' like a contract, let the demagoguic will of the majority prevail.

God...err...Great Spirit bless democracies...;-)

 

[CDNBear]

...and that has what to do with the topic?

gwm?

 

[gerryh]

And your point?

A deal is a deal. Deal with it.

BTW: How you set for smokes, I have a box of Podium Blue King size left...;-)...need any hand guns? Alcohol? I got about a dozen 60 pounders of Vodka and Rum, brand names to boot...:lol:

There's a perfect example of why the treaties should be scrapped. Indians who have disregarded the laws and the agreements. Non taxed tobacco and alcohol etc... is supposed to be for their own use...NOT for resale to non natives. This alone should be enough to say....too bad, so sad....you f*cked up.... cya later baby.

Ya, but then there's the fact that health, welbeing and care, were worded in. That puts modernization in the mix, hence the redressing of the contracts.

and there's that "treating indians like they were children" thing again. Even our own kids need to grow up and make it on their own at some point in time.

You forgot death mauls. And numbers, then you have ferocity too.

Seamen were pressed into service. Warrior look forward to dying in battle. Guaranteed spot at the Council Fire in the hereafter...;-)

death maul...glorified club..... and both France and England had standing armies that could have taken care of the "problem" without much of a sweat. Instead they chose a diferet route that has cost us, Canadians, far more than anticipated. Enough is Enough.

 

[lone wolf]

Tried and failed. Even though some treaties have the phrases...

"So long as the sun shines"

"So long as the rivers flow"

It is in the premise that the bond is made, not the literal translation.

;-)

The Judge sees evidence. Why do you think they're written in flowerspeak?

GWM = Great White Mother

 

[FiveParadox]

With such a patchwork of treaties to wade through and attempt to renegotiate, I have no doubt that it would take decades to conclude. I’m not sure that it would be possible for The Crown to revoke, on its own, the treaties that it had signed with Aboriginal groups; the notwithstanding clause does not apply to s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the section that guarantees the continued respect of treaties by the Government).

 

[CDNBear]

There's a perfect example of why the treaties should be scrapped. Indians who have disregarded the laws and the agreements. Non taxed tobacco and alcohol etc... is supposed to be for their own use...NOT for resale to non natives. This alone should be enough to say....too bad, so sad....you f*cked up.... cya later baby.

Can you please provide me with the law that says I can't sell contraband to my friends?

I can supply you with the law that says you can't posses it...;-)

And there's that "treating indians like they were children" thing again. Even our own kids need to grow up and make it on their own at some point in time.

And when have you ever seen me say anything to the contrary to that?

death maul...glorified club..... and both France and England had standing armies that could have taken care of the "problem" without much of a sweat. Instead they chose a diferet route that has cost us, Canadians, far more than anticipated. Enough is Enough.

Uh huh...And they weren't on the first ships. The Miq mak drove off the Vikings. Those cheese eating surrender monkeys would have been a walk in the park.

The Judge sees evidence. Why do you think they're written in flowerspeak?

Originally? To confuse us...;-)

GWM = Great White Mother

My bad...:lol:

 

[CDNBear]

With such a patchwork of treaties to wade through and attempt to renegotiate, I have no doubt that it would take decades to conclude. I’m not sure that it would be possible for The Crown to revoke, on its own, the treaties that it had signed with Aboriginal groups; the notwithstanding clause does not apply to s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the section that guarantees the continued respect of treaties by the Government).

 

[gerryh]

With such a patchwork of treaties to wade through and attempt to renegotiate, I have no doubt that it would take decades to conclude. I’m not sure that it would be possible for The Crown to revoke, on its own, the treaties that it had signed with Aboriginal groups; the notwithstanding clause does not apply to s. 35 of the Constitution Act, 1982 (the section that guarantees the continued respect of treaties by the Government).

How unfortunate.... but....I would say that Canadians as a whole are geting sick and tired of tthe constant whining and just might be ready to say enough is enough and do what is nessasary to put a stop to it.

 

[CDNBear]

How unfortunate.... but....I would say that Canadians as a whole are geting sick and tired of tthe constant whining and just might be ready to say enough is enough and do what is nessasary to put a stop to it.

Even though, I don't seem to fall into your idea of the RoC, I too am tired of the whining.

From both sides...;-)

 

[gerryh]

Even though, I don't seem to fall into your idea of the RoC, I too am tired of the whining.

From both sides...;-)

With the way that this whole mess has been handled, and the fact that many indians don't seem to want to be "Canadians", then of course it will be looked at as indians vs. the ROC.

This whole BS about a "Nation within a Nation" is not sustainable. Either your people join Canada willingly, or if not, then Canada takes the solid stance of assimilation.

 

[CDNBear]

With the way that this whole mess has been handled, and the fact that many indians don't seem to want to be "Canadians", then of course it will be looked at as indians vs. the ROC.

First off, I'm not the only 'injun' that sees himself as a TRUE Canadian. Secondly, we have treaties that say that we can keep our soveriegnty, thank you very much.

This whole BS about a "Nation within a Nation" is not sustainable.

Funny, The Iroquois have been Six Nations within a nation for decades. As soon as your Gov't forwords the cheque for the land its agents and Priests stole, we'll be settled up.

Either your people join Canada willingly, or if not, then Canada takes the solid stance of assimilation.

Talk like that gets groups like the MWS all hot and bothered. And even though the MWS is in flux, its arms dealers aren't. We learned something at Oka. We stole a term from the Israeli's. Never again.

 

[Machjo]

How unfortunate.... but....I would say that Canadians as a whole are geting sick and tired of tthe constant whining and just might be ready to say enough is enough and do what is nessasary to put a stop to it.

I know what you mean. Always complaining they are about their contract this, and their contract that. What do they expect of us, that we honour our contracts? Jeesh!

 

[Machjo]

With the way that this whole mess has been handled, and the fact that many indians don't seem to want to be "Canadians", then of course it will be looked at as indians vs. the ROC.

This whole BS about a "Nation within a Nation" is not sustainable. Either your people join Canada willingly, or if not, then Canada takes the solid stance of assimilation.

OK, serious point here. I was speaking with one person from the AFN not long ago, and she'd told me that they were having a hard time with the Harper Conservative government because the Conservatives were trying to pressure them to 'become Canadian' (her words not mine), but saying that the First Nations would never accept that.

As much as we might like it, they have not surrendred their land. it is still unrelinquished land, thus in their eyes, usurped.

Legally, they're right.

 

[gerryh]

First off, I'm not the only 'injun' that sees himself as a TRUE Canadian. Secondly, we have treaties that say that we can keep our soveriegnty, thank you very much.

and I've already covered what I think of those "treaties". Retaining soveriegnty was a mistake to offer, and needs to be rectified if Canada is to continue as a strong cohesive Country.

Funny, The Iroquois have been Six Nations within a nation for decades. As soon as your Gov't forwords the cheque for the land its agents and Priests stole, we'll be settled up.

The "Six Nations" haven't been a "nation" for decades, and was at best a loose coalition that the French and English quickley proved could be split when the chips were down.

Talk like that gets groups like the MWS all hot and bothered. And even though the MWS is in flux, its arms dealers aren't. We learned something at Oka. We stole a term from the Israeli's. Never again.

The MWS are nothing but thugs. Canada made a mistake at OKA. What should have been done is the regular forces sent in with the sole purpose of taking out and eliminating the MWS for once and for all. The people of Canada should ensure that if the same situation was to rear it's ugly head again, that our polititions know that we support the use of force to ensure a final solution.

 

[gerryh]

OK, serious point here. I was speaking with one person from the AFN not long ago, and she'd told me that they were having a hard time with the Harper Conservative government because the Conservatives were trying to pressure them to 'become Canadian' (her words not mine), but saying that the First Nations would never accept that.

As much as we might like it, they have not surrendred their land. it is still unrelinquished land, thus in their eyes, usurped.

Legally, they're right.

Then it is time to change that.