Don't dress like a *****...oops
- Thread starter TenPenny
- Start date
The problem as I see it is it's gotten so mixed up that, in a lot of people's minds, provocative dress means 'getting raped'. Not for everyone but for a lot of people. If one is advocating not drawing undue attention (because you may draw attention from those from who you not want it) it's not different than advising tourists on vacation not to wave around large sums of cash. But when idiots like the one in the OP throw around a word like ****, while saying they are merely advocating caution, all they're really doing is perpetuating a stereotypical view. And therefore perpetuating the excuses, wrong and lame as they may be. I'm not one to overly advocate PC 'speak' but I think on this we need to be really diligent about speaking carefully.
Triggers I don't buy though, because that implies fault on the part of the victim. "She provoked me." Doesn't fly. Criminals make a choice.
That's my opinion.
Yeah.
With regards to the manner of dress and rape, I don't believe there is any corrolation between the two. A rapist doesn't care what a woman wears, he will rape the woman if she is dressed in a tank top and shorts or if she is wearing a business pantsuit. A rapist is a vicious animal, and to put any blame on the victim regardless of what she wore (or he wore, as men have been raped as well) is wrong.
And it's pretty scary what they consider "provocation"!
"She looked at me funny."
"She giggled when I spilled some orange juice on my shirt."
"She said hello to the mailman."
"She said hello to me."
Pretty normal actions of life, wouldn't you say? Would any of us view that as provocation?8O
And it's pretty scary what they consider "provocation"!
"She looked at me funny."
"She giggled when I spilled some orange juice on my shirt."
"She said hello to the mailman."
"She said hello to me."
Pretty normal actions of life, wouldn't you say? Would any of us view that as provocation?8O
“TenPenny 1 day ago “….I would think that a woman should be able to walk around naked, and menwouldn't suddenly have an overwhelming urge to rape them….”
TenPenny, you are right, of course. Women “should be able to walk aroundnaked”, but we all know that there are some ‘strange’ men out there. Any female(doesn’t matter what age) that is raped; I wish they could all be convinced itwas not their fault. Because it is NOT their fault. We all know that sometimesclothing (or lack thereof) can be an instigator, so can I ask a question, If weall know this, why do some females seem to choose not to protect themselves?
karrie 1 day ago”…… saying women should stay off dark streets aftermidnight, places the blame on any woman who was a victim because of it. Tellingwomen to buddy up. Telling women to take self defense. Telling women ANYopinion of how to avoid being a victim, implies that someone who suffered arape without having taken all the precautions, is somewhat to blame. Why dothey get so hung up the 'dressing ****ty' issue? Telling people to live likepotential victims is the same ****, different pile, no matter what aspect ofthe issue you're addressing. Attempting to dictate the dialogue to yourparticular slant is pointless and takes away from the issue at hand……”
karrie, as I said before.. Any female(doesn’t matter what age) that is raped; I wish they could all be convinced itwas not their fault. Because it is NOT their fault. We all know that sometimesclothing (or lack thereof) can be an instigator, there are some ‘strange’ menout there , so can I ask a question, If we all know this, why do some femalesseem to choose not to protect themselves? Be it clothing, self defense, ‘buddyingup’, or whatever.
I agree, that the implication is ignorant. But rape shield laws are there to protect the victim from it being used against the victim.
My position isn't about placing blame. Rape is rape, a vile criminal act, for which the perpetrator is solely responsible.
I'm talking about prevention.
If one fears being raped, one should take precautions. Either by arming oneself, or going out of your way to be less of an object.
Provocative behavior and dress, play a key role in the objectification of women. Objectification, plays a role in rape.
Again, I'm not talking about blame, I'm talking about prevention.
Warnings such as the one I posted early, appear constantly, in print and signage, leading up to hunting seasons. It is neither seen as offensive, or in any way shape or form as placing any responsibility on the civilian populace.
A rambling generalization but still...
Most Harley riders that wear leather, look cool, some even very tough, not to be messed with. My brother-in-law included. Sister looks like a hot biker chick.
Any rate, because most do, and there is a preconceived notion of a 'biker' perhaps, then maybe they garner a little more respect or fear or elbow room.
I will only speak for the two riders I know (but I'm sure it applies pretty well unless one is in a so-called 'gang'), that they are bright, educated, decent mid-lifers that would harm no one but may be looked upon as a threat by someone else with helmets and gear on let's say. They might even know that.
Same as some big goon like Bear wearing a gayish lacoste tee or a black, sleeveless wife beater. One looks intimidating, the other no so much.
A woman that has a great body and wants to show it (may) should know she'll be looked-at, ogled even. She knows she's sexy, desired and pretty and probably has since high school. Some may be bonafide sluhtz too, like the bike gang members.
In the end though, keep your distance, don't stare into the eclipse (cleavage) and you should be just fine. Confine your teenage rubbing angst to your bedroom, rent a chick or get a life and your own gal.
Most Harley riders that wear leather, look cool, some even very tough, not to be messed with. My brother-in-law included. Sister looks like a hot biker chick.
Any rate, because most do, and there is a preconceived notion of a 'biker' perhaps, then maybe they garner a little more respect or fear or elbow room.
I will only speak for the two riders I know (but I'm sure it applies pretty well unless one is in a so-called 'gang'), that they are bright, educated, decent mid-lifers that would harm no one but may be looked upon as a threat by someone else with helmets and gear on let's say. They might even know that.
Same as some big goon like Bear wearing a gayish lacoste tee or a black, sleeveless wife beater. One looks intimidating, the other no so much.
A woman that has a great body and wants to show it (may) should know she'll be looked-at, ogled even. She knows she's sexy, desired and pretty and probably has since high school. Some may be bonafide sluhtz too, like the bike gang members.
In the end though, keep your distance, don't stare into the eclipse (cleavage) and you should be just fine. Confine your teenage rubbing angst to your bedroom, rent a chick or get a life and your own gal.
And that somehow makes it all better!!!
I will see you on the field of honour sir!
Meme's a 20 paces, tomorrow at dawn.
I'll see your 'ha!' and raise you a 'guffaw'.
Here's a little light reading...
http://char.txa.cornell.edu/lennon.htm
I don't think there is either. I think manner of dress will play into attraction, but the move from being sexually attracted to raping is not something that will occur in all situations, therefore the manner of dress is incidental to actually coming in contact with a rapist.
Maybe that's a fine line, a fine distinction to be made, but I believe it is necessary to make it!
All just variations on the theme of "My behaviour is not my fault."
I know, and it's great that there is finally rape shield laws but until we get the mindset of society on board with that thinking, the stereotypical view of 'blaming the victim' will still prevent women from coming forward. This, in my opinion, is further enhanced by douchebags making comments like in the OP.
I know where you're coming from, I don't necessarily disagree with your position either. How an individual chooses to dress or not dress, has no impact on how I view them, and I know in the end it would not on yours either, because we aren't superficial people. Pushed on the topic I don't think that many people really are that superficial. But people don't seem to think things through enough before they open their traps. So to my way of thinking, you should be more pissed when some moron utters the phrase "don't dress like a ****" because it undermines the value of what you are saying.
The problem is there are too few people saying what you are saying, the way you are saying it, and too many saying "Don't dress like a ****, you'll be asking for it". That's why I think we need to be very diligent and very, very clear with what we are saying. We need to clarify that manner of dress is, in the end, incidental to whether someone is raped or not. It may not be incidental to whether or not someone turns heads or draws the attention of others, but it is to rape. The most provocatively dressed woman in the world will not be raped if she does not come into contact with a rapist. Period. End of story.
Of course one should always take whatever precautions they think are necessary. I'm no stranger to the subject, I'm an adult female who is single, I go out by myself, etc. I am aware of my surroundings, I pay attention to details, would never walk alone down a dark alley at night, so on and so forth. But I have never let fear, of any kind, dictate how I dress. I dress to my comfort level, sometimes it might be slightly more provocative than other times (it's nice to show off the girls a little from time to time,
), mostly I just wear whatever the hell feels comfortable. But whenever I hear the phrase "What was she wearing?" my blood fuking boils! The implication is infuriating! There are too many neanderthals out there (men and women) who haven't evolved beyond the point of superficial judgements like that. And as long as that attitude exists, we need to jump ferociously up and down on the heads of the morons who utter "Don't dress like a ****". It is important to say, NO, manner of dress does not matter, it is not the deciding factor in whether someone gets raped. The same way that having cash in your wallet will not be the deciding factor in whether you get robbed, you must also come into contact with a robber. But advocating safety is something we need to do, absolutely 100% agree on that. But I think it's incredibly important to not say, or imply, 'there is a point there' because we end up losing our message (the precautionary, be wary of drawing attention to yourself, standard safety message) in with the judgmental message.
Sluut marchers do not agree with Toronto Mayor's niece
Prostitutes are usually better looking
Prostitutes are usually better looking
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Like partier's don't need much of an excuse to party. Bitches don't need much of an excuse to bitch.
I agree with everything you are saying. In regards to the "Wear hunter orange when in the woods," vs. "Don't dress in a revealing fashion," I would add that the comparison really fails because in the first case the person is likely shot accidentally (I don't think most hunters would intentionally kill a human) while in the second case the person really is intent on committing a crime against another person.
I don't think you will convince many people not to make shaming statements by claiming that people should not be judged on what they wear. Consider, just the fact that somebody is willing to wear something from t-shirt hell says a lot about them. More generally, when I go to a bank for a project, if I show up in sweat pants and a t-shirt, they will rightly consider me to not be taking my job seriously. I dress differently when I go to work, on weekends and when I go out with friends; dress is a form of expression.
The real message, to me, is that there is nothing wrong with lasciviousness in women especially when it is already celebrated in men! Moreover, and especially with regards to this thread, even if a woman was dressing in a way she intended to look attractive or to try to appeal to men, that can never justify rape.
Not i n montreal,most are horribly wrecked by years of using hard drugs.Sluut marchers do not agree with Toronto Mayor's niece
Prostitutes are usually better looking