Do we need believe ?

[AnnaG]

.
You take that for granted, the part about people being inherently good,correct?

Nope.

Well,that's what the bus stops were design to be ,hey ,there are also the schedules that tell you exactly when the bus arrives and departs The system was designed for the buses to come and go............, my 4 year old daughter knows that though she still has a problem with the word "believe".

People still rely on the belief that the buses will be on time and in the right spot, though. They get a wee bit uptight when it breaks or something and doesn't show up on time.

Trust me ,not everyone agrees that knowledge is a good thing.

No ALL knowledge is a good thing, but the knowledge enough to find something to eat is kind of handy. The knowledge of how to read and write is also kind of handy. Or how to tell a loony from a nickel.

PS.
Anna ,what' your definition of the word believe?

To believe in something means to accept something as being true. I believe water will keep quenching my thirst for the rest of my life. That one I kind of take for granted sometimes.

 

[AnnaG]

That,s the topic of the thread - "a believe of any kind" .....not only believe in God.
We don't believe in reality but only in illusions ....is God an illusion?

Speak for yourself. Perhaps your life is an illusion, my isn't. I tend to think of gods as man's inventions. I may be wrong, though. Maybe there are such things and they all look like different kinds of rocks flying around in space. Unless one lands on me, though, they don't matter much to me.

 

[AnnaG]

Physical reality, as we understand it, is an illusion, or more correctly a hologram or projection of our thoughts and beliefs. That is why those who believe in gawd can manifest all kinds of "proof" that it exists while those who don't, can't.

Perhaps you can bark your shin on a hologram or a projection of your thoughts and beliefs, but I can't.

Particularly aboriginal people from all over the world had a very different belief system from our's. For example, they believe a tree has spirit. They can actually see that spirit. They can see the life force pulsing through it as waves of energy, not just wood, bark and leaves. We would think that is just nonsense because we can't see it but it not a matter of whether it is or isn't possible, but one of belief systems.

I can see stars up close without getting singed by just poking myself in the eye. Does that count?

 

[Cliffy]

Perhaps you can bark your shin on a hologram or a projection of your thoughts and beliefs, but I can't.

That is because your toe is a hologram.

I can see stars up close without getting singed by just poking myself in the eye. Does that count?

It doesn't. Didn't Les say your dad or grandfather was a medicine man or something? You can't just discount something because it is beyond your understanding. I know a lot of people say a lot of native beliefs are just superstition. In the end all beliefs are superstition by that standard, even science.

 

[china]

Anna,

Speak for yourself.

What makes you think I don't .

Perhaps your life is an illusion, my isn't.

Are you speaking for yourself?

I tend to think of gods as man's inventions.

The only thing invented is the word ; I know this word in 5 different languages ;as usual ,the word is not the thing .

I may be wrong, though.
I am not .

Maybe there are such things and they all look like different kinds of rocks flying around in space. Unless one lands on me, though, they don't matter much to me.

Perhaps one already has but you don't believe .

 

[El Barto]

Ironically said I believe that believing in something you have to disbelieve in other things . Life / existance is much more open than our minds can percieve.
So why do we narrow that perception?

 

[china]

VanIsle

If we believed only in illusions that would mean you are not real either

.

Keep on believing , you're on to something .

 

[china]

El Barto ,

Ironically said I believe that believing in something you have to disbelieve in other things . Life / existance is much more open than our minds can percieve.
So why do we narrow that perception?

El Barto, Why do people believe in one thing and not in other things ?
Just wondering .

 

[El Barto]

El Barto ,

El Barto, Why do people believe in one thing and not in other things ?
Just wondering .

Maybe , just maybe . it's all a choice and we believe in what we believe because it either agrees with us , because in the end it is what we want.
When someone tells you an incredible story you are left with the choice to believing it or not. The wiser choice is to leave it in suspense IMO.

 

[AnnaG]

That is because your toe is a hologram.

Nah. lol I can touch it and it is more solid than foam or water. My hand went through a hologram once. lol

It doesn't. Didn't Les say your dad or grandfather was a medicine man or something? You can't just discount something because it is beyond your understanding. I know a lot of people say a lot of native beliefs are just superstition. In the end all beliefs are superstition by that standard, even science.

Nah. Les says shaman sometimes but but he's just a fairly spiritual herbalist.

hehehe Ok. It wasn't funny what I said. I thought it would be, though. It's the thought that counts, right?

 

[AnnaG]

Anna,



What makes you think I don't .

The word you used was "we". Unless you think you are Queen Victoria or something, we is plural. lol So it is perfectly natural to think you weren't speaking just for yourself.

Are you speaking for yourself?

Me is usually what I am referring to when I say "my", yes.



The only thing invented is the word ; I know this word in 5 different languages ;as usual ,the word is not the thing .

I may be wrong, though.
I am not .

You make the claim it is up to you to prove it or else it is only opinion and not fact. As you cannot prove that gods are anything more than wishful thinking and mere words, I remain of the opinion that they have no relevance in my life and that they probably don't exist as anything other than words and wishful thinking.

Perhaps one already has but you don't believe .

:roll:Yeah, right.

 

[Cliffy]

Nah. lol I can touch it and it is more solid than foam or water. My hand went through a hologram once. lol

Nah. Les says shaman sometimes but but he's just a fairly spiritual herbalist.

hehehe Ok. It wasn't funny what I said. I thought it would be, though. It's the thought that counts, right?

In a lot of ways, shaman are just spiritual herbalists. I spent many years with an old school Cree shaman. He showed me a lot of stuff that would be considered impossible in my culture. That I was able to experience these things had to do with me living in the forest for years before I met him and working on undoing beliefs that I was brought up with because they had no validity in my life anymore.

I was open to experience his reality and those that he associated with. I won't go into details about those experiences on here, but suffice to say, many were outside the realm of real to the dominant society, and no, drugs were not involved. That is when I started to investigate the beliefs of other groups of people and found that in truth, reality is exactly the way we believe it is, that belief determines our experiences of life.

What I have been trying to do since is suspend all beliefs in order to experience a much broader level of experience. What I like to say is I believe in nothing but the possibility of everything. If I experience it, it becomes part of what I know to be true. It being whatever it happens to be going on at the time. There is no belief or science behind it, just experience or life.

 

[AnnaG]

In a lot of ways, shaman are just spiritual herbalists.

Yeah. Dad doesn't do the praying to whatever appropriate spirit for something, though. But he can sure belt out a good prayer tune. lol

I spent many years with an old school Cree shaman. He showed me a lot of stuff that would be considered impossible in my culture. That I was able to experience these things had to do with me living in the forest for years before I met him and working on undoing beliefs that I was brought up with because they had no validity in my life anymore.

I was open to experience his reality and those that he associated with. I won't go into details about those experiences on here, but suffice to say, many were outside the realm of real to the dominant society, and no, drugs were not involved. That is when I started to investigate the beliefs of other groups of people and found that in truth, reality is exactly the way we believe it is, that belief determines our experiences of life.

Sounds like someone I became friends with one time. Unfortunately, he had a stroke a couple years later and then died a couple after that. I still don't believe in spooky stuff, only that we can't explain everything scientifically. I doubt we ever will.

What I have been trying to do since is suspend all beliefs in order to experience a much broader level of experience. What I like to say is I believe in nothing but the possibility of everything. If I experience it, it becomes part of what I know to be true. It being whatever it happens to be going on at the time. There is no belief or science behind it, just experience or life.

A Japanese Taoist friend calls it "becoming childlike". To be able to accept what is as simply what is without preconceptions, misconceptions, inhibitions, etc. is what he defines it as.

 

[Cliffy]

I studied Taoism too. I like the concept a lot. I think that is what is meant in christianity by "you must be born again", to become as a child, to see the world through new eyes in every moment. This does not require gods or spooks or evil spirits or anything supernatural. To me it all breaks down to quantum physics and mechanics.

 

[china]

Anna,

Quote:Anna I tend to think of gods as man's inventions.
China

​

The only thing invented is the word ; I know this word in 5 different languages ;as usual ,the word is not the thing .

[quote Anna ,
I may be wrong, though.
China
I,m not .

Anna,
You make the claim it is up to you to prove it or else it is only opinion and not fact. As you cannot prove that gods are anything more than wishful thinking and mere words, I remain of the opinion that they have no relevance in my life and that they probably don't exist as

China ,
I don't make any claims or whatever;just stating that the word "god" is an invention ,I know this word in 5 languages and that the word is no God.Take it or leave it ,nothing to prove.

 

[china]

El Barto

The wiser choice is to leave it in suspense IMO.

A twilight zone ......eh?

 

[AnnaG]

I don't make any claims or whatever;just stating that the word "god" is an invention

"The only thing invented is the word"
"the word is not the thing"
2 claims right there.
But I know what you are getting at. Words are what we best communicate with, though, and those 3 letters are a lot easier to represent the concept with than a bunch of hand gestures, a picture, or something else.
And you may get the arguement from Christians that their Bible is their god's word and hence the same as their god.

 

[Cliffy]

"The only thing invented is the word"
"the word is not the thing"
2 claims right there.
But I know what you are getting at. Words are what we best communicate with, though, and those 3 letters are a lot easier to represent the concept with than a bunch of hand gestures, a picture, or something else.
And you may get the arguement from Christians that their Bible is their god's word and hence the same as their god.

I once wrote on a stick it note that "The second coming is a process, not an event". A christian friend read it and went ballistic on me, shouting, "the Bible is God!!!!" I calmly pointed out that it was paper with ink on it. He left in a huff mumbling about me burning for all eternity.

 

[El Barto]

El Barto

A twilight zone ......eh?

Kinda I think,see I didn't say believe

 

[china]

Kinda I think,see I didn't say believe :wink:

So, you're a fast learner.:wink: