Deserter granted last-minute stay of deportation

[Praxius]

Unfair because the judgement is different from what you want it to be? Is that what your interpetation of justice is... what Prax wants? Whatever Prax wants should be adhered to and any other finding is an injustice?

That would be a perfect world, but we're not quite there yet are we?

Give me time and eventually I can rule over you and we can all live in a perfect utopia. ;-)

If you go through the list of deserters and what they are getting it is far more lenient than I would thought they would have recieved. Some are getting general discharges, less than honorable. The hard cases that make it difficult for them are getting the screws to them because their conduct up in Canada is being considered. Even though they are not in uniform and have long hair, they are still under contract. Each time they go in front of the cameras, in front of a judge for a stay they are digging themselves in a deeper hole.

So the more they express their own opinions and explain why the made the actions they did.... the more they build themselves a defence for their actions, they're going to be penalized for it?

Nice. Where do I sign up?

 

[Praxius]

Well something has to be wrong with this system then if there are so many people who sign up with their young only to find that the only reasonable option left to them is flee the country a criminal, face a life of a fugitive and suffer the slings and arrows should they be discovered.

Are there any cases of Canadians fleeing South to avoid service in the Canadian military once they have signed up?

Damn, and I was going to give you a rep point, but it won't let me.

The funny thing is I don't remember hearing of any.

And yes, I agree there has to be something seriously wrong when that many people take off from the US, head to Mexico, Canada and anywhere else they can to avoid fighting an unjust war with no end in sight.

 

[Praxius]

Well when you look at the size of our military you are going to get the deserters. Heck I even knew a few in the 80's and we weren't even at war! Some people get fed up and can't hack it.

Maybe the procedures of recruitment should be re-evaluated then.

I've seen how the US get's their recruits.... avoiding the upper class neighborhoods, checking out the low end shopping malls and communities, promising all this money and great things for a future..... sizing up paticular people who are easy to influence.... avoiding all the tough questions and saying all that will be explained when they join up...... yeah.... no wonder why there are deserters.

 

[Praxius]

I just found a stat on-line.

Out of about 1 Million men and women underarms, 929 are listed as unaccounted for/ deserted. Not a bad stat.

Now you will find there were over 8,000 AWOL cases and say...

"AHHH HA!"

But AWOL can mean anything. We had two guys get back to the ship about 2 hours late for formation. They were charged with being AWOL as they were indeed absent without leave. They had a rough night, met a few girls and couldn't get a cab. They were punished but it was just extra duty.

Most AWOL cases are guys/gals that skip off for a week for one reason or the other. Sure they get punished but it is a case by case situation. But they do face some sort of punishment.

929 confirmed deserted / unacounted for..... and the other 8,000 still on the books for being AWOL, you expect us to believe all have hangovers or decided to take a short vacation from the military?

Me thinks not. Some.... perhaps.... but certainly not that many..... let alone a majority.

 

[Zzarchov]

Again Eaglesmack, you are implying I think he should be free from Punishement.

I am saying if he believes what he claims to he should wear his punishment as a badge of honour.

When an Iraqi insurgent shoots you, he is in the end punishing you for something he thinks you should know is wrong, picking up a gun and trudge through someone elses home.

But no US soldier is going to be ashamed of suffering for doing what they consider their duty, regardless of it others consider it wrong or not.

So if he really believes what he is doing is right, he should accept his punishment and be proud of it.

 

[B00Mer]

I'd say refusing to kill civilians in their own country and planting weapons and IED tools on their bodies to make them look like terrorists or insurgents, because it's the popular thing to do, is far from being a pussy.

Keeping your mouth shut and going along with it, ignoring your own morals and everything you were taught growing up is what I considder a spinless pussy.

"I was just following orders" are some of the greatest words in some of the world's worst tragedies.

Ignoring my morals... I agree with this war and would be more than willing to go over to Iraq to help rebuild, guard power and water bldg's, schools, hospitals and transportation grids.

Help train Iraq military so they can defend themselves as a nation and maybe, just maybe see a country that has some laws rather than blind faith behind a fanatic religion.

 

[anonymus]

You all are welcome to keep that man if you realy want him.

 

[EagleSmack]

929 confirmed deserted / unacounted for..... and the other 8,000 still on the books for being AWOL, you expect us to believe all have hangovers or decided to take a short vacation from the military?

Me thinks not. Some.... perhaps.... but certainly not that many..... let alone a majority.

This where you don't know the difference between AWOL (known today as UA) and desertion. There are 929 deserters out of approx. 1 Million service member. There were 8,000 cases of AWOL (UA) last year. If you are late for formation you can be charged with UA (Unauthorized Absence). If you get fed up and dissapear for a week you will get charged with UA. If you go UA and are absent beyond 30 days then you get recatorgarized as a deserter. So if someone is charged with UA (AWOL) it becomes part of the statistic. So there are not 8000 people listed as UA (AWOL).

Prax...I do not expect you to believe anything that anyone tells you.

 

[EagleSmack]

Maybe the procedures of recruitment should be re-evaluated then.

I've seen how the US get's their recruits.... avoiding the upper class neighborhoods, checking out the low end shopping malls and communities, promising all this money and great things for a future..... sizing up paticular people who are easy to influence.... avoiding all the tough questions and saying all that will be explained when they join up...... yeah.... no wonder why there are deserters.

Look up the town of Westwood Ma and you will see it is a VERY high income town. It also has a Marine and Army recruiting station. That is the closest one to where I live.

I was from a middle class family. That is where the bulk of the military comes from.

How have you seen the US get recruits living up in Canada? How often have you visited the US and observed recruiting? You are just speaking from what you hear from the disgruntled and the liberal left.

Yeah...929 deserters out of a million. What is the percentage of that?

 

[EagleSmack]

Again Eaglesmack, you are implying I think he should be free from Punishement.

I am saying if he believes what he claims to he should wear his punishment as a badge of honour.

When an Iraqi insurgent shoots you, he is in the end punishing you for something he thinks you should know is wrong, picking up a gun and trudge through someone elses home.

But no US soldier is going to be ashamed of suffering for doing what they consider their duty, regardless of it others consider it wrong or not.

So if he really believes what he is doing is right, he should accept his punishment and be proud of it.

Then I agree.

But if I was this Hinzman guy at this point I would do everything I could to stay there now because he is going to be put through the wringer. He should have just taken his medicine and taken what was coming to him. He would be out of the brig by now and probably just gotten a general to less than honorable discharge. Not there is no doubt he will get a Dishonorable which makes him pretty much unemployable here in the states. He can where it proudly but as life goes on I think it will lose its luster if he remains in the states. Maybe he can go back to Canada after he does his time.

 

[lone wolf]

Then I agree.

Maybe he can go back to Canada after he does his time.

That might be tough considering he'll have a criminal record....

 

[missile]

As there isn't any shortage of cowards here in my country, I don't see any need to keep American ones.

 

[EagleSmack]

Lots of people are trying to keep them there. Although the numbers have dwindled there are still some hold outs and the longer they stay the worse it will be when they eventually return to the US.

 

[Zzarchov]

See, they should have just found a nice Canuck girl or guy to marry. Especially guy, then they could claim legitimate refugee status since they would be punished for their sexual orientation.