Canadians bashing Americans

[darkbeaver]

Beav, you're not denying that socialism as it has been in recent history, has been a detriment, are you?

Nope, it's a work in progress, why I'm a socialist instead of a capitalist is the direction and the goals,
socialism is for the people capitalism is for the capital. In socialism we will have smaller regulated capitalists so they don't get big and nasty. You don't start a fire and then go to the mall and expect it to not eat all the fuel while you're away. You keep your eye on it or it'll eat everything in the yard.:wave:

 

[CDNBear]

Head and shoulders above, bear that's the ego that we are supposed to overcome, it leads us away from the meat.You and I both could use a lot more vision questing and a lot less strongarming the little fish.:wave:

I hear ya beav, and I am trying. If you read my intro post, from way back when, I make no attempt to hide myself in words or what not. I am an arrogant ass. I admit it and to some extent I deserve to be. And I also deserve some of my spankings. But I temper that with the ablity to see past my perceptions and opinions and apply credit, where it is due. I have given rep points to people and their opinions that greatly differ from mine(as you and gopher can attest to), because what they posted was very well thoughtout.

But if someone pokes me and gets a smack in return, it seems quite hypocritical to then turn the tables and start whining about how bad I am, non? We sow what we reep.

 

[CDNBear]

Nope, it's a work in progress, why I'm a socialist instead of a capitalist is the direction and the goals,
socialism is for the people capitalism is for the capital. In socialism we will have smaller regulated capitalists so they don't get big and nasty. You don't start a fire and then go to the mall and expect it to not eat all the fuel while you're away. You keep your eye on it or it'll eat everything in the yard.:wave:

Absolutely, I agree. But when socialism is left in the hands and control of mere men, it always seems to go for a shyte. If we base all notions of Capitalism on the US model, then it would seem bad. It seems both Russian communist style socialism and American winner take all, capitalism, have there draw backs, and they all look like men to me. Not the ideal.

 

[darkbeaver]

Absolutely, I agree. But when socialism is left in the hands and control of mere men, it always seems to go for a shyte. If we base all notions of Capitalism on the US model, then it would seem bad. It seems both Russian communist style socialism and American winner take all, capitalism, have there draw backs, and they all look like men to me. Not the ideal.

Absolutely, and that's we're we the people come into power, if we don't constantly take an active interest in our Government then w e end up with pricks no matter what type of system is at work, a mix of methods is the one that seems to work best and satisfy both sides of the equation. The mix is out of whack now, that's why the cookies taste like crap.:wave:

 

[Colpy]

Nope, it's a work in progress, why I'm a socialist instead of a capitalist is the direction and the goals,
socialism is for the people capitalism is for the capital. :wave:

No, socialism is for the mass, while capitalism is for the individual.

Both become perverted.

Socialism is perverted because human nature dictates we (as individuals) don't give a damn for the mass, only ourselves and our family/tribe, so we will try to dominate or exploit the system for our own advantage.

Capitalism is perverted because individual labour becomes a commodity to be purchased as cheaply as possible, and those on the bottom never have an opportunity to capitalize...........and those unable to sell their labour become mere unwanted expenses to be disposed of. And the success of capitalism depends on ever-increasing consumerism.

Capitalism has done much for human society in the creation of wealth. It needs to be overseen by democratic institutions concerned with the protection of the weak........but it works.

Socialist ideas succeed only as a tool used by democratic institutions to defend the weak, to provide a check on dominant capitalist culture.

 

[CDNBear]

Absolutely, and that's we're we the people come into power, if we don't constantly take an active interest in our Government then w e end up with pricks no matter what type of system is at work, a mix of methods is the one that seems to work best and satisfy both sides of the equation. The mix is out of whack now, that's why the cookies taste like crap.:wave:

I suggested that Americans invoke this clause in the Constitution...

http://books.google.com/books?vid=O...+can+dissolve+the+government+and+start+a+new'

And start over, but I got nowhere. As have many of the Militias in the States that claim that the government have over stepped their bounds and no longer represent the people. Of which I agree. But the same can not only be said about Socialist states the world over, it is easily proven as well.

 

[CDNBear]

No, socialism is for the mass, while capitalism is for the individual.

Both become perverted.

Socialism is perverted because human nature dictates we (as individuals) don't give a damn for the mass, only ourselves and our family/tribe, so we will try to dominate or exploit the system for our own advantage.

Capitalism is perverted because individual labour becomes a commodity to be purchased as cheaply as possible, and those on the bottom never have an opportunity to capitalize...........and those unable to sell their labour become mere unwanted expenses to be disposed of. And the success of capitalism depends on ever-increasing consumerism.

Capitalism has done much for human society in the creation of wealth. It needs to be overseen by democratic institutions concerned with the protection of the weak........but it works.

Socialist ideas succeed only as a tool used by democratic institutions to defend the weak, to provide a check on dominant capitalist culture.

Excellent post Colpy, this is exactly why I feel that most Canadians are not to far to the right. Even your Conservative self, lol. We enjoy the labours of a socialist ideology, but employ the fiscal benefits of capitalism.

 

[L Gilbert]

Nope, it's a work in progress, why I'm a socialist instead of a capitalist is the direction and the goals,
socialism is for the people capitalism is for the capital. In socialism we will have smaller regulated capitalists so they don't get big and nasty. You don't start a fire and then go to the mall and expect it to not eat all the fuel while you're away. You keep your eye on it or it'll eat everything in the yard.:wave:

Then if one gets too socialist you end up like BC did with the NDP: businesses moving to other provinces and taking workers with them, provincial debt doubling, deficit skyrocketing, gov't becoming a huge white elephant, etc. and no-one is happy except the unions (not the members). BTW, all that and the NDP did nothing about infant mortality, welfare, , etc. but they did like to pad their wallets. Socialism is for the people? Yeah, the few at the top at the expense of the masses.
As J K Galbraith once said, "In Capitalism, man exploits man. In Communism (a form of socialism), it's the opposite."

 

[L Gilbert]

Absolutely, I agree. But when socialism is left in the hands and control of mere men, it always seems to go for a shyte. If we base all notions of Capitalism on the US model, then it would seem bad. It seems both Russian communist style socialism and American winner take all, capitalism, have there draw backs, and they all look like men to me. Not the ideal.

Exactly. It doesn't matter what the philosophy, humans will screw with it. So the only alternative I see is a middle of the road approach and for the most part, I think Canada is middle of the road. It could do with improvements, though, such as putting the power of Canada into the hands of the people instead of people like the a$$holes we've had since 1960s.

 

[CDNBear]

Exactly. It doesn't matter what the philosophy, humans will screw with it. So the only alternative I see is a middle of the road approach and for the most part, I think Canada is middle of the road. It could do with improvements, though, such as putting the power of Canada into the hands of the people instead of people like the a$$holes we've had since 1960s.

Is everything OK? You didn't prop Sweden, lol, just kidding around. I couldn't agree with you more.

I really know very little on the Swedish model, perhaps a thread is in order?

 

[L Gilbert]

Is everything OK? You didn't prop Sweden, lol, just kidding around. I couldn't agree with you more.

I really know very little on the Swedish model, perhaps a thread is in order?

Sweden has its good points but it's too socialist for me. My favorite is Switzerland. The idiots that have been in the PMO haven't a clue about ordinary Canadians so they have no idea how to arrange the social aspects of the country.