Canadian Military

[Nosferax]

Re: RE: Canadian Military

I'll be happy when we get some aircraft carriers, and not a moment before!

But alas, the very definition of a pipedream...

Well we did have 2 of those until (and a little after) the Korean war (The first one was The Canada I believe, the second one was The Bonaventure). We scraped them, mostly due to the fact that they were built during the 2nd WW and were getting obsolete but also to "accomodate" our southern neighbor. Kinda like we did when we scrapped the Avro Arrow.



Edit: The Bonaventure we bought from the Royal Navy was originaly the HMS Powerful. The others were on loan.

They were light escort AC.

All in all Canada had 5 AC under it's command in it's naval history:

HMCS Bonaventure (1945, ex-British HMS Powerful) - Retired 1970
HMCS Magnificent (1944) - Returned to Britain 14 June 1957
HMCS Warrior (1944) - Returned to Britain 1948, sold to Argentina 1958 and renamed Independencia
HMCS Puncher (1943)
HMCS Nabob (1943)

The Puncher and Nabob where escort carrier (not more than converted cargo with a flight deck).

 

[Jersay]

We are suppose to be getting 8 Orca class patrol ships by 2007, which is pretty cool. But there is nothing after that on the radar so far.

And we get a 14 billion dollar budget for 2005 add on 1.23 billiopn promised by the Liberals, and then add on the 5.3 billion extra promised by the Conservatives.

Then the 23,000 soldiers promised by the Conservatives and the 8,000 by the Liberals I think Canada is doing pretty well.

However there is no information on any new equipment for the Air force or Navy.

 

[I think not]

Canada has a huge land mass largely unguarded and if Canada wishes to retain their sovereignty, they must consider what they themselves have to guard, not what the Australians are doing or any other country.

I think Russia would be the best comparison for land mass and climate conditions, keeping in mind how impoverished Russia is, not only because of all the wars it engaged in, but because of its enormous land mass, even without all the USSR countries attached.

Actually the US would be a better example, as the US has more land mass than Canada. Canada has more water area than the US, so it would really make more sense to boost their navy as an all out invasion is highly unlikely.

 

[Jersay]

No Canada and America have about the same landmass, Canada slightly more.

 

[Jay]

And we get a 14 billion dollar budget for 2005 add on 1.23 billiopn promised by the Liberals,

The Liberals probably were promising "billiopns", for all you were going to see of it.

 

[I think not]

No Canada and America have about the same landmass, Canada slightly more.

The US has more land mass, slightly more, but more nonetheless. Canada has more water area which makes it as a whole larger than the US.

 

[Jay]

No Canada and America have about the same landmass, Canada slightly more.

The US has more land mass, slightly more, but more nonetheless. Canada has more water area which makes it as a whole larger than the US.

We'd still kick your ass though....

 

[Jersay]

Canada has a land mass of 9,970,610 square kilometers

http://www.ocanada.ca/geography/

9,161,923 sq km

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

9,093,507 sq km

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ca.html

I guess you are right. And only by 60 thousand.

 

[Curiosity]

ITN

I believe when I was stating Russia would be a better comparative for Canada, I mean primarily because of the climate and landmass
affected by the same hemispheric conditions.

Patrolling ice-bound arctic waters is a whole nuther program that the U.S. is concerned with only in Alaska and minimally at that.

Of course NORAD would probably combine all of the defensive positioning under one command anyway. Heck I don't know what I'm talking about..... 8)

 

[Doryman]

We are suppose to be getting 8 Orca class patrol ships by 2007, which is pretty cool. But there is nothing after that on the radar so far.



Mmmmm... Jersay those Orcas are training vessels for Reserve MARS officers, not "patrol vessels". They have the ability to mount a .50 cal, but they probably won't. Most likely they'll be used to train young JOUTs in how to not crash a ship, and we'll probably share them with the Cadets, like we do with the YAG's at the moment. Nothing bursts your bubble like passing a BOTC course and then cutting your teeth by conning a vessel you once piloted as a pimply 13 year old cadet... Humble pie, yum yum! The only thing the ORCA's will do with their extended range is allow young JOUT's get drunk and beat up in Seattle instead of getting drunk and beat up in VietNanaimo. Whatever, I'll take it.


I think the Navy is headed for more of a support role, lately. HQ ships and transport vessels. If we keep up the way we're going, we'll just be limo drivers for the boys in the green pyjamas. Le sigh...

 

[Jay]

Not really Gun, the Conservatives are looking at getting the plans for and constructing 2 WASP Class Amphibious Assault Ships.

Wow....2 White Anglo Saxon Protestant war ships....that's gonna put the fear of God in the enemy. I haven't been this excited since I was a little girl..... 8O

 

[Lineman]

At nearly $1 billion American each in 2006 dollars do you think Canada would build 2?
Bonhomme Richard LHD-6 Ingalls $761million / 1992
Iwo Jima LHD-7 Ingalls $795 million / 1995
These would likely meet any requirements the CF would ever need in Hillier's "Big Honkin Ship" but WOW, I'm guessing they could end up at $ 2 billion Canadian each by the time our domestic ship builders are done. Throw in the helicopters, VSTOL, LCAC, and a crew of 1100+ (not including the landing force of 1800+) and we're in the 3 billion or more range for each.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Bad decisions on the part of politicians has been a major issue. Rather than reinvesting in updating equipment, our previous Government chose to spend millions on outfitting our soldiers in new uniforms and after almost a decade they again changed the uniform pattern and put two uniforms out to pasture they invested millions in.

The bottom line was the government was more interested in how our troops looked than how they operated.

As far as the military itself and getting bang for its buck. All units have been working on shoestring budgets for years. It was in fact the military that asked to take control of their budgets as they were once dictated to by Ottawa where to buy a hammer or a toilet seat at sickening costs. Now a Supply Officer is free to go into the local economy and seek out the best deals.

Good for the military, good for the local economy

Cheers M

 

[#juan]

Canada's newest aircraft carrier

http://www.thedonovan.com/archives/004074.html

 

[Lineman]

:lol: At least the name matches the design :lol:

 

[FiveParadox]

Hehehe, cute. :lol:

That HMCS Jean Chrétien is a fine vessel.

 

[Finder]

Re: RE: Canadian Military

Bad decisions on the part of politicians has been a major issue. Rather than reinvesting in updating equipment, our previous Government chose to spend millions on outfitting our soldiers in new uniforms and after almost a decade they again changed the uniform pattern and put two uniforms out to pasture they invested millions in.

The bottom line was the government was more interested in how our troops looked than how they operated.

As far as the military itself and getting bang for its buck. All units have been working on shoestring budgets for years. It was in fact the military that asked to take control of their budgets as they were once dictated to by Ottawa where to buy a hammer or a toilet seat at sickening costs. Now a Supply Officer is free to go into the local economy and seek out the best deals.

Good for the military, good for the local economy

Cheers M

Until now I thought you were just some right wing soldure, as most are, who was pissed off at the Liberals. But you are out of touch with the current soldurers my friend. I myself like you liked the old uniform. I mean god damned they dried really fast and even though in puplic you felt you were wearing PJ's they were also pretty comffy. But the new Cadpads are extremely populer with out fighting men and women and offer them greater protection. They may not dry as fast but in infer-red they are harder to see!!! The soldures feel safer in them and I do not think it was a bad investment, but the soldurers who I know love them and are very happy they have that new layer of protection. They miss the super fast dryness of the old uniforms but trust me when I say none of them would give up the cadpads for the greens.

 

[Retired_Can_Soldier]

Re: RE: Canadian Military

Until now I thought you were just some right wing soldure, as most are, who was pissed off at the Liberals. But you are out of touch with the current soldurers my friend

Actually Finder I was referring to the Work Dress and Enviromental CF's Green and Tan for the Army as well as paint by numbers garrison dress.

I liked the old combats as well, but my Son assurres me the new camo's are pretty good. I'm not as out of touch as you might think. We saw a lot of waste under the Liberal regime, silly investments which cost millions, which would have been better invested in training and equipment. When common sense finally prevailed The Garrison dress which included 6 shirts, 1 camo Smock, one pair of garrison boots and one complete enviromental Dress CF was canned.
Just one of the many wasted endeavors on the part of the Liberal Government. In the end dress and combat uniforms worked out just fine. Should I be surprised? I guess not, I mean these are the same clowns that gave us a Gun Registry that topped 2 billion.

Anyhow I won't dredge all this up. You obviously disagree with my view of politics and that's cool, but I hope I clarified what I meant.

Cheers
M

 

[Lineman]

Instead of starting a new thread I thought I'd try and revive this one.
With a HOLD put on most "Liberal" planned military purchases it leaves the question of what are the Conservatives up to? Will O'Connor revert back to the old procurment process, buying equipment that by the time our soldiers get it that it's close to obsolete? I turned away from the Liberals in the last election for many reasons but the way they were finally getting down to business with procurments for the CF was not one of them.

 

[EagleSmack]

Re: RE: Canadian Military

I'll be happy when we get some aircraft carriers, and not a moment before!

But alas, the very definition of a pipedream...

Geez the US is decommissioning a few of our older ones.

Want em'?