So you think the BSs are being helpful, kind, courteous, and friendly to the woman and her kid? "Oh, you're homosexual, so fyckoff." Doesn't seem to cohere to the standards it purports, IMO.
Boy Scout den leader dismissed for being a lesbian
- Thread starter gerryh
- Start date
Of course we are.
So WAR should be forced to allow the membership of a black man, just because he wants to join?
Would it be a good idea to force CAIR to have a quota for Jewish members?
Should Rush Limbough be an automatic member in the ILGA?
My point is, freedom of association allows us to congregate or not, with people of our own choosing.
If you set up a club or organization, that has a membership code. That is your prerogative.
Who am I to say who you should make a member?
We aren't talking about employment, or public groups here.
While the Scouts are the victim of hate, and being discriminated against.
I was just using your term as a vehicle, lol. No, you didn't.
I don't know. I wasn't there when they explained their position to her.
I've explained to people that they didn't meet my standards for employment, kindly, courteously, friendly, and helpfully explained what they needed to do to achieve them.
Which I think brings us right back to their moral code or values being outdated in current society. Or, to be more specific, your interpretation of their moral code, which I don't necessarily disagree with.
Right. Freedom of assembly. Which is not to say that there are not certain groups within society that probably shouldn't exist. However, I'll agree that legislating them out of existence is wrong. Because therein lies a slippery slope.
Having said that though, I can, do and will continue to fully endorse shouting them down at every available opportunity.
Personally I'd love to see the KKK disappear, not through force but because they just gave up trying. That, to me, would be a real victory.
I'm easily confused, lol. But on the right track now.
Maybe countering is a more appropriate term than shouting down. Possibly aggressively countering, lol.
Absolutely. And that is what I'd like to see regarding Boy Scouts and their policies on gay troop leaders. The justification within society that allows for the acceptance of groups with these policies needs to be abated.
I took this statement to mean that was your interpretation of their code.
Also, I agree, to me it is hypocritical to have that as your mission statement and turn around and treat someone like that.
And I still think it comes down to society's acceptance of the group's behaviour and whether or not society will continue to accept it.
To be a girl scout leader......
How to Become a Girl Scout Troop Leader | eHow.com
Does a gay man need the Chaperone??????:smile:
How to Become a Girl Scout Troop Leader | eHow.com
Does a gay man need the Chaperone??????:smile:
Sexual orientation has no bearing on trustworthiness, loyalty, dependability, etc. (Whatever the oath is, clearly I've never been a Scout, lol). So their oath, their mission statement,I believe in their eyes holds them up to this high standard but in the end this "standard" doesn't matter. It doesn't matter whether this woman was trustworthy or loyal or whatever. The only thing that mattered was that she is a lesbian. I look at that and I see hypocrisy.
Again, not saying we should force them to take on gay and lesbian troop leaders. But pointing out the hypocrisy of it, yeah I think we should do that.
And I think they used to discriminate on the basis of gender as well, but they changed that. So I'd say it's beyond time they changed this too.
Ya, because that's what I said. C'mon LG, you know me better than that.
Why? Her sexual orientation doesn't meet their standard. We don't know how she was let go.
The other qualities they espouse have no bearing on, nor do they enforce the acceptance or not, of homosexuality.
It's the BOY Scouts. Troops should be led by men, gay men even! Having had young girls in my classes, I can honestly say I am glad I merely teach bushcraft.
We know why she was let go. What difference does how she was let go make? I'm not seeing the point of that.
That's right, they don't have any bearing on sexual orientation or it's acceptance. Either way. But the things that they hold to such a high value, as defined in their mission statement, are counter to how they have behaved, in my opinion.
Let's look at loyalty for example. I have no idea whether she was loyal or not, but for the sake argument let's say she is. Was her loyalty valued by an organization that states they value loyalty? No. Does it seem like they showed loyalty to her for her service? No. So can they really say they value loyalty? Again, in my opinion, I don't think they can without being hypocritical.
Scouts is scouts, personally I don't think they should segregate them at all if you want to know the truth.
Yeah, sorry. I forgot to add that I was joking. But you should have known that.
How doesn't seem to matter nearly as much as why she was let go. And it seemed pretty apparent that she was let go simply because she is a lesbian. Carried further, this is the same attitude that denied women the right to vote, work, etc.
Women can't teach outdoor crafts? Or those qualities that the BS purports to instill in boys? Or any of the things mentioned http://www.scouts.ca/ca/programs?
So why exactly do you think men should teach boys and women should teach girls only? I wonder how the 4H club ever survived.
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Their core values do not dictate the acceptance of homosexuality, nor do they dictate they have to allow homosexuals to lead them.
"Sorry, your sexuality doesn't meet our moral standards" does not negate the message of their core values.
Being hypocritical requires the element of pretending. They aren't pretending to have those core values. They have a double standard.
Fair enough.
Fair enough.Yeah, sorry. I forgot to add that I was joking. But you should have known that.
I disagree.
That wasn't what I was trying to convey.
There are issues that may arise, or the ability to relate. That is easier with the same sex. Or so I was tought in my orientation.
Yep. It's their club, archaic and draconian as it may be.
.......... except for the 4 I mentioned.
Yep.
It happens.
Well, there's the obvious issues about body parts and stuff and I can see where some kids/leaders could be uncomfortable about asking/explaining certain things, but that could be easily worked around. Like I said, though, I wonder how the 4H club ever survived having men teaching girls as well as boys and women doing the same.
What exactly are their core values except for those expressed in their mission statement then? The way I look a it, if they hold themselves up as being representative of those ideals expressed but behave in a different manner, then that is pretending because it's not truthful.
Maybe more precisely double standard would be more accurate though, so fair enough.
I think in certain circumstances it can be warranted, the ability to relate to the same gender is as important of a component of childhood development as the ability to relate to the opposite gender. An organization like Big Brothers/Big Sister for example. It would depend on the purpose and scope of the program I guess.
You'd have to establish, apart from your moral judgment, that they let her go in a way contrary to the core values.
Yep, that's why I'm told to refer any issues to a female counselor.
The same way the public school system did.
Which isn't really comparable to Boy Scouts.
How so? You can be kind friendly and so on, and still not accept homosexuals, for any number of reasons, but still treat them kindly etc.
I'll refer you to my employment scenario.
No doubt. But being a Scout isn't living in a closed society.
Male bonding? Gender roles? All boys club? The latter being something I would endorse as the most important.
How about that. A solution.
The school system isn't, but the 4H and BS have many overlapping characteristics.
How is shunning them or barring them being friendly, helpful, etc.?
I think the BS is stuck in the 40s and 50s when genders were distinct and anything else was hidden under the carpet.
Maybe they are afraid the lesbian would "convert" the boys. lmao