Beat this besti4lity thread if you can...
- Thread starter thomaska
- Start date
soooo like when they see humans all that aggression just shuts down...hmmm ok i can dig it.
if that sounds sarcastic it's not ment to be except in getting to the point.take as .001 outta 10 sarcastic...i am learning a lot in this thread...
k Twila.
p.s.will someone please talk about bull terriers..unf here is a bunch of manly hand shakes with me dressed in a manly suit for the occaision...so the socks are pink..one does need a bit of color(bird cage)
They aren't related really, they share common ancestors (as do all dogs
). Both are the result of mixing terriers and bulldogs.The Bull Terrier was created by crossing Bulldogs (the fighting kind) with terriers (probably the now extinct White English Terrier) around 1835. Other dogs were added to the mix later to increase its size (Pointers). It was used in dog fights. If you don't want a dog with that lineage, they aren't the dog for you. They do make great pets for the right people and they don't have the media hype of being a vicious breed in spite of their similar history to the pitbull.
http://www.akc.org/breeds/bull_terrier/history.cfm
PitBulls, which usually means American Staffordshire Terrier in the United States (PitBull is not a breed recognized by the AKC), are also descended from Bulldogs and Terriers, but which kind is somewhat debated. Could be the English Terrier, could be the Fox Terrier... we don't really know. At any rate, some bulldogs and terriers were crossed in England to eventually create the Staffordshire Terrier. They started making their way to the US in the second half of the 19th century where other breeds were probaby added in to increase its size. They were used in pit fighting and as all purpose farm dogs. The dog in England was called the Staffordshire Bull Terrier, and the dog in America was called the American Staffordshire Terrier to distinguish between the two since the English version is much smaller. They have been registered since 1936 in the AKC and were the most popular type of dog in America at one point. The most decorated dog of WW1 was a Staffie as was the dog on the Li'l Rascals. He never bit his trainer, unlike a few Lassies...:lol:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/american_staffordshire_terrier/history.cfm
The Staffordshire Bull Terrier, a smaller version, called the nanny dog in England:
http://www.akc.org/breeds/staffordshire_bull_terrier/history.cfm
Yup, the spirit of the thread seems to have taken a turn for the worse though. This is the most serious bestiality thread I have ever read. :icescream:
The above bears repeating...
Maybe a list of no no's should be circulated. Some of the most fundemental training techniques and games that are played and basic social interaction that many humans do with dogs is inherently wrong when dealing with a pack animal. Yet some humans wrongly believe that the animal should conform to a humans way of doing things. This is the biggest mistake humans make with animals.
Humans often forget that they are dealing with animals and not homosapiens. I see it at the cat shelter I volunteer at all the time. People come in and think they can pick up a strange cat and cuddle it like it was their pet. They are unable to comprehend that this cat views them as a stranger. I watched a woman at the vets office the other day pick up the office cat and place him on top of his scratch post. The cat, who is handled continuously, growled and gave the lady a swipe (no contact made) This should have told the lady to leave it alone but instead she decided that the cat had no right to express annoyance and started to try to pet the cat. The woman was quite bewildered with the cat scratching her AGAIN. This same woman had just brought her own cat in to be looked at . This woman had absolutely no concept of cat behavoir. Nor did she feel the cat had any rights to who picks it up and who pets it.
I have to ask how they can score better on breed temperment if you say they're not a breed. What's scoring better, and where are the stats, if pitbull doesn't exist? I'm not trying to be ignorant here, just that Twila calls it an imagined breed, then you say the breed scores better... so which is it?
Yet when you ask the SPCA what good exercise for a dog is, they'll list 'tug of war.' A good dog, with good temperment, can play tug games with its pack. Our dog would constantly wrangle neighborhood dogs into tug of war games. The neighborhood dogs could play it incessantly. Never a tussle or a fight between them, all good fun. If dogs play it for fun, why should humans not be able to play tug with a well adjusted dog?
honest curiousity.
A "pitbull" isn't a breed per the AKC. It isn't recognized. The breed I am talking about is the American Staffordshire Terrier and it's what most people here would call a pitbull (the UKC does recognize the Pitbull Terrier as a breed and some AmStaffs are actually registered with the AKC as AmStaffs and with the UKC as Pitbull Terriers). It scores higher as a breed on temperament testing that Golden Retrievers. It has been recognized since 1936 and dogs in those lines haven't been bred for fighting since then, they've been bred to be show dogs.
It's a dominance game too. Played amongst eachother, it helps determine which dog is the strongest. Played with people it teaches dogs to challenge their humans which should never be encouraged. For the same reason, we never play fight with dogs. They aren't allowed to put their teeth on a human ever. You can get away with doing it, but most trainers now discourage it because it really doesn't help a dog learn that he is beneath humans in the hierarchy.
So, is or isn't it a breed? I'm still confused. No one seems to be able to come to true concensus on this.
Being someone who doesn't trust purebreds as a general rule, I'm not horribly surprised anytime any kind of registered breed scores high (especially if its bite rate is higher than its population makeup).
"Pitbull" is not a breed per the American Kennel Club. The breed most people would recognize as a pitbull is the American Staffordshire Terrier (a rose by any other name perhaps). I posted a link to it above so you can see pictures. Some other people would also call a Staffordshire Bull Terrier or a Bull Terrier a pitbull too. Some would even call Presa Canarios or Dogo Argentinos or Bullmastiffs "pitbull".
Anyone who thinks "pitbull" is a recognized breed doesn't really know about dog breeds.
American Staffordshire Terriers have excellent pass rates on temperament testing.
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Simply because once fully grown the dog will win. You must make the mental conneciton right away when the dog is a pup that there is no competition between you and as a general rule you should be able to get anything in a dogs mouth out quickly and easily. Tug of war games teach the opposite.
Change of heart/mind;
Ok somewhere in here someone mentioned mandatory training for pet owners. I replied something to do with goldfish.....
I realise now how wrong i was to ignore the intent and just scoff.
At first it's like yeah right like we need to make this mandatory!
But... here is how I changed my mind.
Twila brought up that cats should not be fed milk due to them not being able to digest calcium....told Sandy she said she knew that...I live with Sandy and did not know that.
Tracy i believe brought up tug of war with dogs and stuff related....sandy knew that and i did not......
Soooo maybe us morons need to know this stuff. Maybe mandatory study in caring for dogs is due .
Ok somewhere in here someone mentioned mandatory training for pet owners. I replied something to do with goldfish.....
I realise now how wrong i was to ignore the intent and just scoff.
At first it's like yeah right like we need to make this mandatory!
But... here is how I changed my mind.
Twila brought up that cats should not be fed milk due to them not being able to digest calcium....told Sandy she said she knew that...I live with Sandy and did not know that.
Tracy i believe brought up tug of war with dogs and stuff related....sandy knew that and i did not......
Soooo maybe us morons need to know this stuff. Maybe mandatory study in caring for dogs is due .
I've never seen anyone play a game of tug with a dog where the dog has their teeth on a person. But, I've also never played a game of tug with a dog that wasn't well enough trained to obey commands in the midst of the game. If playing tug with my dog, you say "Now drop it", she will. Dominance established.
that's training rather than dominance. My cat will come and drop the string at my feet when I say so I'll throw it again. But I know I hold no dominance over her.
A dog will sit for a treat. Not a show of submission though. Understanding of cause and effect.
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I was talking about play fighting when I said no teeth on a human. It's the same underlying problem as tug of war though, it's teaching a dog to challenge humans. You can do it and not necessarily have negative outcomes. It just doesn't help.