All Will Be Made Alive

Cliffy

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Motar

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For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. (1 Corinthians 15:22)
 

Motar

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You do have a point, if you are speaking in metaphorical terms. When we do bad things, and engage in self destructive behavior, a little part of us dies inside.
I am a sinner, and believe in salvation.

I appreciate your thoughtful response, Girth. I would be interested to hear more about the metaphorical approach to the thread topic.
 

Motar

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You do have a point, if you are speaking in metaphorical terms. When we do bad things, and engage in self destructive behavior, a little part of us dies inside.
I am a sinner, and believe in salvation.

One metaphor of Scripture which seems particularly relevant in our day is labor pains. Here is Jesus' response to his students' questions about eschatological trends and timeline:

"Jesus answered: 'Watch out that no one deceives you. For many will come in my name, claiming, ‘I am the Messiah,’ and will deceive many. You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains'" (Matthew 24:4-8, NIV).

Unprecedented global tribulations are increasing in frequency and intensity today like "birth pangs".
 

Cliffy

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Unprecedented global tribulations are increasing in frequency and intensity today like "birth pangs".
Na. Mother Earth is about to take a shit. She's fed up with our disrespect, ignorance and abuse. She will scrape us off like fleas.
 

Motar

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Heavenly Father seems so much more patient and gracious, Cliffy.

Peter observes: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish” (1 Peter 3:9).

Paul adds that God “wants all people to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:3).
 

Cliffy

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Heavenly Father seems so much more patient and gracious, Cliffy.

Peter observes: “The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish” (1 Peter 3:9).

Paul adds that God “wants all people to be saved” (1 Timothy 2:3).
Ya, right. The old testament is a blood bath of those who pissed him off. Your god is a psychopath.
 

Dexter Sinister

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He just got some good anger management courses between the Old and New Testaments, then around the year 95 CE he lost it again and had someone named John write all about the end of the world he was going to make happen. According to that book the end was coming pretty soon, but after over 1900 years without it happening I think we can safely assume John got it wrong.

Or gawd changed his mind.

Or the book isn't really about what so many people think it is.
 
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Motar

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Ya, right. The old testament is a blood bath of those who pissed him off. Your god is a psychopath.

I don't know about that, Cliffy.

Moses, Nehemiah, David, Joel and Jonah all describe God as "merciful and gracious, slow to anger and abounding in steadfast love" (Exodus 34:6; Nehemiah 9:17; Psalm 86:15; 103:8; 145:8; Joel 2:13 and Jonah 4:2).
 

Motar

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He just got some good anger management courses between the Old and New Testaments, then around the year 95 CE he lost it again and had someone named John write all about the end of the world he was going to make happen. According to that book the end was coming pretty soon, but after over 1900 years without it happening I think we can safely assume John got it wrong.
Or gawd changed his mind.
Or the book isn't really about what so many people think it is.

Hello Dex. How have you been? What do you think the book is about?
 

Dexter Sinister

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I'm well, thank you. The book is like all apocalyptic books: the true believers are being persecuted and evil seems ascendant, so it's to reassure those who might be weakening in their faith that all is well, there is a divine plan being worked out, the wicked will soon be taken down and the righteous will rise. It's most probably about the widespread persecution of the faithful by the Roman Emperor Domitian in the closing years of the first century. One thing it's definitely NOT about is modern times.
 

Motar

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I'm well, thank you. The book is like all apocalyptic books: the true believers are being persecuted and evil seems ascendant, so it's to reassure those who might be weakening in their faith that all is well, there is a divine plan being worked out, the wicked will soon be taken down and the righteous will rise. It's most probably about the widespread persecution of the faithful by the Roman Emperor Domitian in the closing years of the first century. One thing it's definitely NOT about is modern times.

Good to hear you’re well. What other apocalyptic books? You are a biblical preterist then?
 

Dexter Sinister

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Isaiah and Daniel contain apocalyptic sections, there are apocalyptic bits in the Quran as well, and there's a pretty substantial literature about the Apocalypse outside of any scriptures. No I am not a preterist, pretty much the opposite: none of the prophecies of the Apocalypse have been fulfilled, and none ever will be, because God is a fictional character who can't make anything happen at all.
 

Motar

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Isaiah and Daniel contain apocalyptic sections, there are apocalyptic bits in the Quran as well, and there's a pretty substantial literature about the Apocalypse outside of any scriptures. No I am not a preterist, pretty much the opposite: none of the prophecies of the Apocalypse have been fulfilled, and none ever will be, because God is a fictional character who can't make anything happen at all.

Isaiah 24-27, Daniel 7-12, Ezekiel 37-41, Zechariah 9-12 and Revelation, right?

Apocalupsis (Gr.) means revelation. Revelation of ... ?

I believe the Quran borrows eschatology from the Abrahamic faiths, does it not?

From my reading of it, the Bible (Book) is about reconciliation and regeneration.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Isaiah 24-27, Daniel 7-12, Ezekiel 37-41, Zechariah 9-12 and Revelation, right?
I'll assume so, I haven't looked up chapter and verse to verify, but that sounds right. There's another one in the Apocrypha too, 2 Esdras.
Apocalupsis (Gr.) means revelation. Revelation of ... ?
It means revealing things that would otherwise remain permanently hidden because they're not accessible to human reason. I take that to mean there's no evidence for them, and I like Christopher Hitchens' idea about that: what can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence.
I believe the Quran borrows eschatology from the Abrahamic faiths, does it not?
Yes, and a lot more too, it's heavily derivative of biblical tales, to the point that I think it could fairly be called plagiarized, but nobody cared much about that 1400 years ago. It's also spectacularly dull and repetitive, a difficult read, at least in the English translation I've seen. For all I know it may be sublime poetry in the original Arabic, the local Islamic proselytizer, Torch light or selfsame or eanassir or whatever he's calling himself these days (I don't pay much attention to him) would no doubt claim it is, but that's no good to people who can't read Arabic. Gotta wonder about the intelligence of a deity who provides a message that's inaccessible to most of humanity.
From my reading of it, the Bible (Book) is about reconciliation and regeneration.
Only if you cherry pick the parts that support that conclusion. A lot of it's pretty horrible, especially in the Old Testament, but the Bible is a sufficiently large and complex text that you could probably find support in it for almost any position you'd care to take. I like 1 Thessalonians 5:21: "Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." The skeptic's mantra.