Alberta passes .05% law that was just declared unconstitutional in BC

[Cannuck]

I already stated that. Lack of sleep due to shift work.

So safe roads is not a concern to you?

 

[Bar Sinister]

Should shift workers be charged as well given that their impairment is greater than that of someone with a BAC of 0.03?

How about just shift workers who stop for a drink on the way home? The thread is addressing the probelm of drinking and driving. Finding other factors that cause accidents is simply adding a red herring to the mix.

 

[JLM]

How about just shift workers who stop for a drink on the way home? The thread is addressing the probelm of drinking and driving. Finding other factors that cause accidents is simply adding a red herring to the mix.

You have to consider all the ramifications - people doing shift work are travelling at times when the roads are less congested which might balance off the extra hazard due to fatigue. :smile:

 

[Cannuck]

Finding other factors that cause accidents is simply adding a red herring to the mix.

Not really. I don't feel that drivers with a BAC at 0.08 are any more hazardous than many other drivers that may be impaired for other reasons. If people want these folks to be single out and want scarce police and legal resources spent going after them, I think it behooves people to explain to me why that is.

People "claim" it is a safety issue but show no appetite for going after other safety problems such as tired drivers.

 

[JLM]

Not really. I don't feel that drivers with a BAC at 0.08 are any more hazardous than many other drivers that may be impaired for other reasons. If people want these folks to be single out and want scarce police and legal resources spent going after them, I think it behooves people to explain to me why that is.

People "claim" it is a safety issue but show no appetite for going after other safety problems such as tired drivers.

What gadget is there that measures degree of tiredness that will stand up in court?

 

[Cannuck]

What gadget is there that measures degree of tiredness that will stand up in court?

Are you saying that because we can't quantifiably measure it we should ignore it? Do you think people should be allowed to drop acid and drive just because we can't measure how high people are?

 

[JLM]

Are you saying that because we can't quantifiably measure it we should ignore it? Do you think people should be allowed to drop acid and drive just because we can't measure how high people are?

If you can't measure it how are you going to prosecute it?

 

[Cannuck]

If you can't measure it how are you going to prosecute it?

Is that what you want...prosecutions? Personally, I would like to see safer roads.

Impaired driving (which is not quantifiably measurable) charges are laid far more often than the charge of blowing over 0.08 so clearly the cops and the system have no problem "measuring" impairment.

 

[JLM]

Is that what you want...prosecutions? Personally, I would like to see safer roads.

Impaired driving (which is not quantifiably measurable) charges are laid far more often than the charge of blowing over 0.08 so clearly the cops and the system have no problem "measuring" impairment.

What procedure do you have in mind that is better than prosecution to make the roads safer?

 

[Cannuck]

What procedure do you have in mind that is better than prosecution to make the roads safer?

Education has worked well elsewhere

Campaign

TAC Campaign - 20 year Anniversary retrospective montage "Everybody Hurts" music by REM TV ad - YouTube

Since road safety incorporates far more than just BAC, the solution should be to focus on more than just BAC. As has been pointed out, the dangers of impaired driving are not from the lower end BAC. Investing limited resources to chase, charge and punish an insignificant part of the problem is not a good use of taxpayers money.

 

[JLM]

Education has worked well elsewhere

Campaign

TAC Campaign - 20 year Anniversary retrospective montage "Everybody Hurts" music by REM TV ad - YouTube

Since road safety incorporates far more than just BAC, the solution should be to focus on more than just BAC. As has been pointed out, the dangers of impaired driving are not from the lower end BAC. Investing limited resources to chase, charge and punish an insignificant part of the problem is not a good use of taxpayers money.

Yep, education is good and prosecution is one means of education.

 

[Cannuck]

Yep, education is good and prosecution is one means of education.

So I get back to one of my original questions, you're in favor of prosecuting shift workers who drive?

 

[JLM]

So I get back to one of my original questions, you're in favor of prosecuting shift workers who drive?

Sure, if they are breaking a law.

 

[Cannuck]

Sure, if they are breaking a law.

According to research, if they are driving, they are all most likely as impaired as somebody with a BAC of 0.08 so yes they are breaking the law. Do you really think that is an effective use of taxpayers money?

 

[Chev]

With this new 'law' in Alberta, someone please tell me... I weigh 138 pounds, am 5' 7", am female, if I have 1/2 SMALL glass wine with Christmas dinner, am I going to be nailed?? (the SMALL glass is tiny compared to the 'small' glasses shown in my search of images of the wine glasses on Google..)

It might be the simplest but it wouldn't be the safest. People driving at or below 0.08 are not the problem. The police should be focusing on on the real problem which are those people 2 and 3 times the legal limit. That takes a little effort and it requires the cops take time away from generating revenues.
I wonder if many people would support that principal if it extended to other areas. For example, I saw a study done in Australia which suggested that shift workers lose enough sleep on shift changes to impair them to the same level as a BAC of 0.08. How many people do you think support criminal charges against tired shift workers that drive?
http://www.sleepoz.org.au/files/fact_sheets/AT08 - Shift Work.pdf

"People driving at or below 0.08 are not the problem. The police should be focusing on on the real problem which are those people 2 and 3 times the legal limit."
Yay for you Cannuck

I use an inhaler for emphysema twice a day.. and am instructedto use cough medicine that is an expectorant..
Am I going to be nailed????


What am I supposed to do??

 

[JLM]

According to research, if they are driving, they are all most likely as impaired as somebody with a BAC of 0.08 so yes they are breaking the law. Do you really think that is an effective use of taxpayers money?

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, how would you prosecute a person who is "most likely" as impaired as a person impaired by alcohol? Could you send me the section of the criminal code?

With this new 'law' in Alberta, someone please tell me... I weigh 138 pounds, am 5' 7", am female, if I have 1/2 SMALL glass wine with Christmas dinner, am I going to be nailed?? (the SMALL glass is tiny compared to the 'small' glasses shown in my search of images of the wine glasses on Google..)


"People driving at or below 0.08 are not the problem. The police should be focusing on on the real problem which are those people 2 and 3 times the legal limit."
Yay for you Cannuck

I use an inhaler for emphysema twice a day.. and am instructedto use cough medicine that is an expectorant..
Am I going to be nailed????


What am I supposed to do??

One small glass with dinner I'd say no, especially if drank before you eat, time will probably take care of it. As for driving at 0.08 or lower being safe don't kid yourself. Years ago I read an article somewhere that said they were just as dangerous if not more so than the ones who were higher because the ones who are really pissed are quite often taking extra precautions. Your loss of ability to concentrate starts at 0.03.

 

[Cannuck]

Oh, I wasn't aware of that, how would you prosecute a person who is "most likely" as impaired as a person impaired by alcohol? Could you send me the section of the criminal code?

Are you suggesting we shouldn't? Since you claim you want safer roads and and since you believe prosecution to be part of the solution and since studies indicate that sleep deprivation cause similar impairment, why would you argue against it?

 

[JLM]

Are you suggesting we shouldn't? Since you claim you want safer roads and and since you believe prosecution to be part of the solution and since studies indicate that sleep deprivation cause similar impairment, why would you argue against it?

[/FONT]

Did I argue against it? I'm actually all for it, what level of sleep deprivation would you recommend? One hour short, two hours short? What "measuring stick" would you recommend?

 

[Cannuck]

http://www.tirf.ca/publications/PDF..._Fatigue_Driving_Ontario_Police_Guidebook.pdf

Police officers appear to be much more concerned with fatigued driving than the
public. While almost all officers considered it to be a serious or extremely serious
problem, only 59.6% of Ontario drivers agreed. The public is more inclined to
believe that other issues such as impaired driving are of more concern.

What "measuring stick" would you recommend?

Road side tests. Since pretty much every police vehicle has a camera, it would be easy to give a standard test and it should make no difference why somebody fails if it means they are a hazard on the road.

Don't Drink and Dance (DUI Stop) - YouTube

 

[JLM]

http://www.tirf.ca/publications/PDF..._Fatigue_Driving_Ontario_Police_Guidebook.pdf

When that "can of worms" gets opened up, there is going to screaming from the trucking industry, many who drive 14 hours a day. Then watch the price of consumer goods skyrocket! :lol: