911 take 911

[darkbeaver]

I dont care about their credentials allthough they arent as credible as you would believe but i'll save that for later.
I also have 3 pilots in my family.

I want proof and if you have none then i'll consider this myth busted.

You have three pilots in your family! Prove it. You very often have a can of credibility on hand don't you. Why would simple minded association of you with credible people (pilots) carry any weight at all in your presentation. I hope you don't have career aspirations in logic.

 

[MHz]

I also have 3 pilots in my family.

Good, when browsing through the data sets which is the code for the cabin-door, seat occupied, auto-pilot? It should look something like this, V/S MODE OPER_FCC C-A-4

 

[#juan]

So the hijackers went in one at a time???
Wouldn't the crew 'do something' to prevent another one trying to open the door moments later??
Are those door not locked?

One of the links I posted yesterday had a time stamp in which nothing at all was recorded. 8:51-57 or something like that. If the pilots were taken to the back they (pilots and some of the hijackes) could not have all exited the cockpit in less than 4 seconds.

I don't really have enough information to argue. It is my opinion that one or both of the pilots were likely killed where they sat.. It is not necessary to bring the pilots to the back. I would have been easy enough to remove the pilot's body and take over the controls. There is no evidence for any of this. Your guess is as good as mine.

 

[AnnaG]

Let me see: first he comes up with the idea that the fires started in the buildings couldn't have been hot enough to affect the steel girders and points to a lot of smoke coming from the buildings as proof; steel starts losing its structural strength at kitchen oven temperatures and plastics, furniture varnishes, etc. release a lot of smoke when burning.
Another "theory": he says the planes were remotely controlled to fly into the buildings. Planes are loaded with redundant systems and they go through quite a few periodical checks to make sure systems are working. So, in the short time between take off and impact the terrorists would have had to disable these redundant systems in order for all these remote devices to act.
Need I go on?

I don't believe the official version but the other versions are just as full of holes as the official one. So, I'm still waiting for a plausible answer that isn't full of holes.

 

[darkbeaver]

Let me see: first he comes up with the idea that the fires started in the buildings couldn't have been hot enough to affect the steel girders and points to a lot of smoke coming from the buildings as proof; steel starts losing its structural strength at kitchen oven temperatures and plastics, furniture varnishes, etc. release a lot of smoke when burning.
Another "theory": he says the planes were remotely controlled to fly into the buildings. Planes are loaded with redundant systems and they go through quite a few periodical checks to make sure systems are working. So, in the short time between take off and impact the terrorists would have had to disable these redundant systems in order for all these remote devices to act.
Need I go on?

I don't think so, you have removed all doubt.

 

[MHz]

But there is an official story that says they were taken to the back. The voice recording would clear up what was being said during the last 30min.
The examination of data that recently was released is evidence of what went on, the general feeling seems to be a who cares, it is old news. They got away with it. This surfaced in Sept., obviously if the mainstream was going to cover it they would have back then, not one article. No action taken by anybody in power in that time.

 

[gerryh]

I don't really have enough information to argue. It is my opinion that one or both of the pilots were likely killed where they sat.. It is not necessary to bring the pilots to the back. I would have been easy enough to remove the pilot's body and take over the controls. There is no evidence for any of this. Your guess is as good as mine.

and this is the meat of the whole thing. The vast majority of us, and this includes those that are placed in the "foiler" camp and those at the other end who consider themselves "foiler spoilers", have no real idea what really happened. Anybody with half a brain KNOWS you can't take everything the Government and their agency's say or report as the COMPLETE truth.

All we can do is sift through the information that is available, decide for ourselves what is fact and what is fiction and draw our conclusions from that.

 

[lone wolf]

They had control of the boxes, the info came out as a result of a request for that info.
Why would the Gov alter information so that it sheds doubt on their story?

Sheds doubt? ... or reveals a few somebodies were asleep on watch...

...just like with the pantybomber.

 

[AnnaG]

and this is the meat of the whole thing. The vast majority of us, and this includes those that are placed in the "foiler" camp and those at the other end who consider themselves "foiler spoilers", have no real idea what really happened. Anybody with half a brain KNOWS you can't take everything the Government and their agency's say or report as the COMPLETE truth.

All we can do is sift through the information that is available, decide for ourselves what is fact and what is fiction and draw our conclusions from that.

Good luck.

 

[AnnaG]

As I said before, I don't believe the official version but the other versions are just as full of holes as the official one.
So, I'm still waiting for a plausible answer that isn't full of holes.

 

[MHz]

Let me see: first he comes up with the idea that the fires started in the buildings couldn't have been hot enough to affect the steel girders and points to a lot of smoke coming from the buildings as proof; steel starts losing its structural strength at kitchen oven temperatures and plastics, furniture varnishes, etc. release a lot of smoke when burning.

That was one tid-bit. Ever see the vid of the stories of the survivors? 2 guys coming down the stairs met some people coming up the stairs who said the way was blocked. The men continued on anyways and the stairway had lots of the wallboard laying on the stairs. They moved what the could and climbed over what they could not move. One mentioned the fires as not being all that big, certainly that they could use the stairway is proof that there was no raging inferno. When you saw that for the first time what was your reaction (in how it fit in with your version, which you never actually voice about the fine details)).

Another "theory": he says the planes were remotely controlled to fly into the buildings. Planes are loaded with redundant systems and they go through quite a few periodical checks to make sure systems are working. So, in the short time between take off and impact the terrorists would have had to disable these redundant systems in order for all these remote devices to act. .

You don't have to disable anything, a code is sent (turning off the transponder would do it) and then remote control is used, that is the whole purpose of anti-hijacking software. Read up on how that system actually works.

Need I go on?.

Not for my sake, did your post have a purpose?

I don't believe the official version but the other versions are just as full of holes as the official one. So, I'm still waiting for a plausible answer that isn't full of holes.

How about an 800 word summary on what you do believe about 911?

 

[Kakato]

You have three pilots in your family! Prove it. You very often have a can of credibility on hand don't you. Why would simple minded association of you with credible people (pilots) carry any weight at all in your presentation. I hope you don't have career aspirations in logic.

Once again you pop in and add nothing but insults.

 

[Kakato]

Heres all the people that would have had to be involved to pull this off.

-The Bush Administration, who failed at everything they ever did. Yet all of them and the people below are helping him cover up the largest mass murder in US history... Some of them like Richard Clarke and Paul O'Neil have come out for less.
-The NYC Fire fighters who know more about building collapses than most, if not all, of them. It's their LIFE to know. Literally! Yet they don't call for an investigation into the MASS MURDER of over 300 of their brothers... Why? (The twisting of these peoples’ statements for donations and DVD sales sickens me.) We have uncovered the myth about a gag order imposed on all fire fighters. Only 9/11 conspiracy sites say this. ONE person who sued Bush for not taking action before the event is ordered by the court not to speak to the media about the case. This is not imposing a gag order on the whole fire department as some of these sites claim. They are lying to cover up this mass murder by the government or the building owner. Why? They don't even know...
Conspiracy theorists bring up an article in Fire House magazine which says the fire department wanted to stop the steel from being sold in order to test the fire proofing and other non-bomb/controlled demolition related investigations. They twist the article’s context to make it seem like the firefighters questioned the idea that fire brought down the towers.
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=
OnlineArticles&SubSe%20ction=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=
25&ARTICLE_ID=131225
http://fe.pennnet.com/Articles/Article_Display.cfm?Section=OnlineArticles&
SubSection=Display&PUBLICATION_ID=25&ARTICLE_ID=130026
Many of these men and women come from the military, yet we are to believe they are so afraid they rather die in the government’s next mass murder than come out and expose this.
-The courts for imposing a gag order [SEE above]
-The NYC Police department who lost over 20 lives. They didn't ask for an investigation. Motive? None...
-The NYC port Authority who lost personnel. Motive?
-All the people in the Pentagon who have not called for an investigation. Many who are liberal and centrist. They did or said nothing while people supposedly trucked in airplane parts to cover the crime. Why? Again, no answer...
-The more than 1,600 widows and widowers of 9/11 who would rather have investigations of the decisions which led to the terrorist getting away with this. They don't want to waste time investigating the mass murder of their loved ones. Even the Jersey Girls. Why? They say it's the money... [note: Whenever killing someone, pay off the relative. They won’t say anything.]
-The media (This one I almost believe) who doesn't follow up on the biggest mass murder and conspiracy in American history. It seems no one wants a Nobel prize for journalism. Not only the American media but foreign press like the BBC and Al Jazeera. Why? No answer here either...
-The photographers from around the world who took pictures of the towers which clearly show bowing of the perimeter columns. These photos support the NIST hypothesis that the sagging trusses lead to the collapse. Some photos also show the core intact shortly after collapse which also not only support the NIST hypothesis but discredits the "Controlled demolition" account.
-Popular Mechanics who debunked these sites are also helping Bush commit the biggest mass murder in history.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html
-PBS Nova since they created a documentary explaining in detail how and why the buildings fell. None of it said bomb.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/
-Everyone in the NIST who covers up the largest mass murder in US history. This independent organization doesn't have a moral person in hundreds of employees because not one has come out exposing this so called "Conspiracy". In fact, the hundreds of scientist who signed onto the report are willing to not only lie for Bush but cover up the largest mass murder in American history. Some suggest only a handful can do the job but that's simply impossible. The team in charge of the computer modeling has to be in sync with the team of structural engineers and so on. There are hundreds involved in this investigation and every team has to work with other teams using the same evidence and specifications.
-NY Governor Pataki because he sold steel from the WTC for the construction of the USS New York. If the argument is the government sold the steel in order to cover up the crime then Pataki is one of the criminals.
-The NY city scrap yards because they also sold steel to China before all of it was tested. Bush would have needed to call them up and tell them to sell it before they could have investigated every beam. A task which would have taken years and years not to mention millions more. Ironically the republican Mayor Bloomberg could not be involved since he asked the scrap yards not to sell the steel on behalf of the firefighters.
-EVERY STRUCTURAL ENGINEER IN THE WORLD who doesn't write a paper for a mainstream peer reviewed journal saying the towers were brought down and could not have fallen due to fire. If laymen can prove things just by looking at videos and reading interviews out of context, then all those structural engineers MUST be working for Bush right? Even the ones in other countries. Why? The answer they give is that the engineers don't know about Jones’ work. So in all this time no one has e-mailed Jones' work to any structural engineer?
-Structure Magazine who published a report saying the collapse of WTC 7 may have been due to one column failing.
-The liberals who don't believe the towers were brought down. (Like me) They're helping a neo-con cover-up the largest mass murder in this nation’s history. Why? No clue...
-The CIA

-The FBI

-FEMA

-The American Society of Civil Engineers who have produced peer reviewed papers showing how what Conspiracy Theorists say is impossible is possible.

-NORAD

-The FAA who saw planes which conspiracy theorists say never existed.

-The Silverstein Group who they say got together with Bush to blow up the building for insurance money.
-Silverstein's Insurance Company who didn't question the collapse and paid out over 2 billion to Silverstein. Why? Conspiracy Theorists say the insurance company just wants to pass on the bill to the public but they already fought Silverstein in a number of law suits concerning the amount.

-American Airlines (Pentagon)

-United Airlines (Pentagon)

-Logan, Newark and Dulles Airport for losing the planes-Scientists and engineers who developed the remote control plane technology

-Installers of the remote control devices in the planes (Pentagon)

-Remote controllers of the planes (Pentagon)

-Scientists and engineers who developed the new demolition technology and carried out practical tests and computer models to make sure it would work.

-Installers of the demolitions devices in the three buildings

-People who worked at the company(s) the installers used as cover

-Airphone etc employees who said they got calls from passengers (Pentagon)

-Faux friends and relatives of the faux passengers or just the faux relatives who claim to have been called by their loved ones or just the psyops who fooled relatives into thinking they really were their loved ones. (Pentagon)

-People who detonated the buildings"
-anyone who thinks the conspiracy is a diversion to take liberal activist focus off of real crimes.
Even conspiracies with a few people are doomed. Look at Enron and Watergate. The more people you involve, the more likely the conspiracy will fall apart. The amount of people needed for this conspiracy could fill one of the towers. It's absurd to think this many people could keep a mass murder for Bush secret for this long. Absurd...
Update:
A common excuse for no one coming out who was part of this so called 9/11 conspiracy is they fear death. If you analyze the argument carefully you realize they are debunking themselves. Why would even people in the military be more fearful of exposing this than the common conspiracy theorists behind a computer monitor? Either they don't believe what they're saying or they actually think they are more fearless than the thousands of others who would have had to be "in on it". As if people in the CIA or FBI couldn't figure out how to get the message out if they wanted to without exposing who they are. People, dates, places, memos and other evidence could easily be disseminated to the public without exposing who they are. The only reason they claim the people are paralyzed with fear is because they have too in order for the conspiracy story to work.

 

[Canaduh]

I don't believe the whole bombs, controlled demo and most of the conspiracy theory crap. But it really wouldnt surprise me if the terrorists were American trained, funded and helped.

 

[AnnaG]

That was one tid-bit. Ever see the vid of the stories of the survivors? 2 guys coming down the stairs met some people coming up the stairs who said the way was blocked. The men continued on anyways and the stairway had lots of the wallboard laying on the stairs. They moved what the could and climbed over what they could not move. One mentioned the fires as not being all that big, certainly that they could use the stairway is proof that there was no raging inferno. When you saw that for the first time what was your reaction (in how it fit in with your version, which you never actually voice about the fine details)).

lmao I didn't say there was a raging inferno. You are leaping to assumptions again.
It isn't that I don't go into detail, it's simply that if I (or anyone else) provided expert opinion to counter your posted expert opinion, you ignored it.

You don't have to disable anything, a code is sent (turning off the transponder would do it) and then remote control is used, that is the whole purpose of anti-hijacking software. Read up on how that system actually works.

And who puts all these little remote control doodads in without detection?

Not for my sake, did your post have a purpose?

If you can't figure it out, there's no point in me telling you.

How about an 800 word summary on what you do believe about 911?

I don't need 800 words.
My summary goes as follows: any "theories", including the official story, about what happened so far are full of holes. So there is no answer.

 

[MHz]

And who puts all these little remote control doodads in without detection?

lol You're kidding right?

 

[Kakato]

lol You're kidding right?

Legit question.

 

[AnnaG]

lol You're kidding right?

Aliens working for the gov't, right? Maybe goblins? :roll: There must be aliens and goblins both in on this massive conspiracy, right? All working for the gov't, too. Right?

 

[lone wolf]

You don't have to disable anything, a code is sent (turning off the transponder would do it) and then remote control is used, that is the whole purpose of anti-hijacking software. Read up on how that system actually works.

Have a link? I am interested to know how a code might be sent that wouldn't be picked up by any number of AWACS and ground receiving stations.

The alternative is one HELL of a long patch cord....

 

[darkbeaver]

Here is the whole condensed 911 story. Never before or since has a single skyscraper collapsed from fire damage. Three in one day in the same city stretches credibility far beyond ordinary human limits. All those who do believe the official story are indeed the very epitome of childlike innocence.