Tesla's electric cars aren't as green as you might think

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
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Why would the ticket be cheaper?




The ticket for an electric plane would be cheaper because LIE-berals would SUBSIDIZE THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


That is the LIE-beral solution to everything!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Just throw money at problems till the problems are BURIED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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no I don't think so.




POOR STUPID HOID!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


He thinks that he is entitled to state something is either fact or not as is CONVENIENT FOR HIM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


There are a couple of Model T`s sitting in garages down the street from me right this moment........just waiting for spring sunshine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


But there are NO Tesla model anythings near me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


And HOID is a typical LIE-beral happily arranging facts to suit and support HIS arguments!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Electric Toy cars are NOT NEARLY AS GREEN as LIE-berals want to PRETEND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


In fact - if we got a COMPLETELY HONEST ACCOUNTING we might find diesels to be better than electric TOYS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



Here is one of those articles that LIE-berals will not want to talk about! With some comments of my own in brackets):

The Dirt on Clean Electric Cars

New research shows some drivers might spew out less CO2 with a diesel engine.

By Niclas Rolander, Jesper Starn, and Elisabeth Behrmann

Published October 15, 2018, 11:00 PM EDT

Why Electric Cars Aren't Taking Over Yet

Beneath the hoods of millions of the clean electric cars rolling onto the world’s roads in the next few years will be a dirty battery.

Every major carmaker has plans for electric vehicles to cut greenhouse gas emissions, yet their manufacturers are, by and large, making lithium-ion batteries in places with some of the most polluting grids in the world.

(Yes- the dirty little electric Toy car secret is that mining Lithium and refining it into batteries are both producing high levels of toxic dust and assorted nasty residues that are as bad or worse than oil production! At the urging of selfish LIE-berals we are switching from one form of pollution to another-just as bad!!)

By 2021, capacity will exist to build batteries for more than 10 million cars running on 60 kilowatt-hour packs, according to data of Bloomberg NEF. Most supply will come from places like China, Thailand, Germany and Poland that rely on non-renewable sources like coal for electricity.

(And this is a second dirty little electric Toy car secret- that much of the electricity need to charge the electric Toy cars is a LONG WAY OFF being clean! Many countries still rely on coal fired generators!)

(Even here in Ontari-owe- after 15 years of hugely costly LIE-beral effort to make us clean and green- our power grid has substantial wind and solar generation capacity - but it is SO UNRELIABLE that LIE-berals were forced to make an entire back up system powered by natural gas! It would have been cheaper and just as clean to simply use natural gas and FORGET wind and solar power here!)

(Yes- Ontari-owe MUST HAVE a natural gas plant - for each wind or solar farm- with the gas plants kept fully manned and fully powered up and sitting idle and just waiting to take over at a moments notice when the wind stops blowing or the sun goes behind a cloud! LIE-berals DO NOT COUNT that fossil fueled gas back up system when they boast about Zero emission electric Toy cars!!)

Not So Green?

Year 1 includes manufacturing-stage emissions. Predictions based on carbon tailpipe emissions and energy mix in 2017.

Source: Berylls Strategy Advisors

“We’re facing a bow wave of additional CO2 emissions,” said Andreas Radics, a managing partner at Munich-based automotive consultancy Berylls Strategy Advisors, which argues that for now, drivers in Germany or Poland may still be better off with an efficient diesel engine.

(In other words - simply setting up the green system is producing it own green house emissions- that LIE-berals re not counting either! All that concrete and steel for wind towers and the aluminum necessary for wiring to the grid!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

The findings, among the more bearish ones around, show that while electric cars are emission-free on the road, they still discharge a lot of the carbon-dioxide that conventional cars do.

Just to build each car battery—weighing upwards of 500 kilograms (1,100 pounds) in size for sport-utility vehicles—would emit up to 74 percent more C02 than producing an efficient conventional car if it’s made in a factory powered by fossil fuels in a place like Germany, according to Berylls’ findings.

(And of course LIE-berals are also forgetful about what it will cost in the future to recycle those millions of batteries! Simply transporting all that mega tonnage of old batteries to a suitable facility will consume much fossil fuel - and LIE- berals aint counting that cost either!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

(And Lithium is so toxic it cannot simply be put in a land fill! Lithium bursts into raging flames on contact with air so disposal of old batteries will be COSTLY and time consuming and a potentially dangerous fire hazard!)

Yet regulators haven’t set out clear guidelines on acceptable carbon emissions over the life cycle of electric cars, even as the likes of China, France and the U.K. move toward outright bans of combustion engines.

(Western LIE-berals are focused on how to maintain their entitlements - while using their alleged environmental concerns as a screen for their GREED!!!!!!!!!!!! This is why they told us the Paris Accord was so vital and now a few years later they are telling us the Paris Accord is USELESS! Exactly as the anti LIE-beral critics claimed when the Accord was proposed!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

“It will come down to where is the battery made, how is it made, and even where do we get our electric power from,” said Henrik Fisker, chief executive officer and chairman of Fisker Inc., a California-based developer of electric vehicles.

For perspective, the average German car owner could drive a gas-guzzling vehicle for three and a half years, or more than 50,000 kilometers, before a Nissan Leaf with a 30 kWh battery would beat it on carbon-dioxide emissions in a coal-heavy country, Berylls estimates show.

(And a we have seen LIE-berals fudge the numbers at every stage of electric Toy car production and use and eventual disposal! With the added bonus that Lithium batteries suffer drastic drastic reductions in range and service life in a cold northern climate- anything below 10 Celsius is HARD for them!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

The Dirt on Electric Car Batteries

(There have been several work stoppages at the Tesla Giga factory as a result of higher than expected levels of toxic Lithium dust- both inside the factory and in towns down wind from the factory!)

(In addition there is growing complaint from inside China over pollution from Lithium mines and refineries but the Chinese Soviet dictators- with their notorious indifference to human rights- have clamped down on complainers as China badly wants the western hard currency that Lithium sales generate!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Battery makers plan factories in Germany, Poland, where coal is still king

Capacity includes plants announced and under construction. Actual energy generation in 2017.

Sources: Bloomberg New Energy Finance, European Network of Transmission System Operators for Electricity

And that’s one of the smallest batteries on the market: BMW’s i3 has a 42 kWh battery, Mercedes’s upcoming EQC crossover will have a 80 kWh battery, and Audi’s e-tron will come in at 95 kWh.

With such heavy batteries, an electric car’s carbon footprint can grow quite large even beyond the showroom, depending on how it’s charged. Driving in France, which relies heavily on nuclear power, will spit out a lot less CO2 than Germany, where 40 percent of the grid burns on coal.

(But even nuclear power consumes substantial amounts of fossil fuel and LIE-berals DO NOT COUNT THAT HONESTLY EITHER!!!! For one thing, massive quantities of concrete are needed to create the immense concrete vaults that nuclear waste is buried in! It is not just spent fuel rods that the nuclear industry must bury for centuries! There is all manner of other gear that gets contaminated!)

(A nuclear power plant is just a big steam engine and it has a lot of plumbing- which needs to be replaced from time to time so there is a constant flow of old irradiated pipes and tools and clip boards and ladders and safety suits and other gear to long term concrete storage! Along with a steady flow of fluids that have been used to clean, decontaminate or degrease the facility and it ALL has to be trucked away and stored in concrete containers and buried by diesel powered machinery! Nuclear power is not nearly so clean as its supporters claim!!!!!!!!!!!)

“It’s not a great change to move from diesel to German coal power,” said NorthVolt AB CEO Peter Carlsson, a former Tesla manager who is trying to build a 4-billion-euro ($4.6 billion) battery plant in Sweden that would run on hydropower. “Electric cars will be better in every way, but of course, when batteries are made in a coal-based electricity system it will take longer” to surpass diesel engines, he said.

To be sure, other studies show that even in coal-dominant Poland, using an electric car would emit 25 percent less carbon dioxide than a diesel car, according to Transport & Environment Brussels, a body that lobbies the European Union for sustainable environmental policy.

(IF ONLY we could TRUST the LIE-beral numbers! And based on Wynne-bag Ontari-owe LIE-beral assurances about the low cost and great benefits that would come from surrendering to their mouldy green energy plan- that has turned into a costly disaster- there is NO REASON to believe ANYTHING that lobbyists from the electric Toy car industry tell us!!!!!!!)

(The hard truth is there are other, MORE EFFECTIVE WAYS of saving the environment- it is just too bad that LIE-berals don’t want to LOOK at the other options ! LIE-berals LIKE electric Toy cars for the GRAVY they hope the Toys will generate for them! As spin doctors from B.C. Hydro have explained -there can be “windfall profits” from electric Toy cars- meaning they are grand for PRICE GOUGING gullible tax payers on electricity charges!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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Global Investment in Wind and Solar Energy Is Outshining Fossil Fuels
In 2016, about $297 billion was spent on renewables—compared with $143 billion on new nuclear, coal, gas and fuel-oil power plants,
https://www.wsj.com/articles/global...-energy-is-outshining-fossil-fuels-1528718400
By Russell Gold
Updated June 11, 2018 10:21 a.m. ET
Global spending on renewable energy is outpacing investment in electricity from coal, natural gas and nuclear power plants, driven by falling costs of producing wind and solar power.
More than half of the worlds added power generating capacity is from alternative.
And Canada is still in dithering along with pipelines.
We are going to get left behind.
If we don't get pipelines to tidewater we will be left behind. Worse there won't be any tax base to subsidise the whirlygigs.
 

spilledthebeer

Executive Branch Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,296
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Good , that means we are maintaining some sanity and are not joining the race to the bottom .




Pity poor LIE-berals!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


THey are so ENTITLED ....................... they DO NOT UNDERSTAND that there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE between money VOLUNTARILY spent by people in private sector to obtain products the buyer actually wants - to enhance his life...................................................


and the GRAVY that LIE-berals have ripped out of our pockets by force and are now shoveling out to select FRIENDS and special interest groups and entitled industries in a vain hope of BRIBING people into accepting LIE-beral propaganda!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,388
11,445
113
Low Earth Orbit
"tidewater" is a magic natty word.
tidewater noun
tide·​wa·​ter | \ ˈtīd-ˌwȯ-tər , -ˌwä-\
Definition of tidewater (Entry 1 of 2)
1 : water overflowing land at flood tide
also : water affected by the ebb and flow of the tide
2 : low-lying coastal land
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,203
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Regina, Saskatchewan
The guy I know with a Tesla has driven it all winter so far (one of the coldest in a Loooooong time). He drives home from work at about 4pm and plugs the car in (he has about a 15 minute commute to or from work), and by somewhere between 3AM & 5AM depending on the temperature it has a full charge again so he can drive to work in the morning for 8AM....where he plugs it in for his commute home 8 hours later. He only got it last year so this is its first winter. He says he is saving on the cost for electricity vs the cost it would have been for gas (not factoring in the cost of the vehicle but he's the kind'a guy who wouldn't buy a personal vehicle with less than 500hp anyway).
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,388
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Low Earth Orbit
The guy I know with a Tesla has driven it all winter so far (one of the coldest in a Loooooong time). He drives home from work at about 4pm and plugs the car in (he has about a 15 minute commute to or from work), and by somewhere between 3AM & 5AM depending on the temperature it has a full charge again so he can drive to work in the morning for 8AM....where he plugs it in for his commute home 8 hours later. He only got it last year so this is its first winter. He says he is saving on the cost for electricity vs the cost it would have been for gas (not factoring in the cost of the vehicle but he's the kind'a guy who wouldn't buy a personal vehicle with less than 500hp anyway).
This comes close our rates per KWh:

Considering on-board charger losses of approx 10%, you will need around 93,5 kWh of electricity to charge from 0% to 100%.

However, this is not only unrealistic, but also impossible due to the protections Tesla build in that prevent discharging to 0%.

More realistic for driving from full to 'empty' would be 70 kWh, requiring 77 kWh of electricity.

Assuming you would pay US$ 0,15 per kWh x 77 kWh = US$ 11,55.

Assuming 300 Wh per mile that US$ 11,55 would drive you 70000/300 = 256 miles . (Not counting use for heating etc).
 

Ron in Regina

"Voice of the West" Party
Apr 9, 2008
23,203
8,047
113
Regina, Saskatchewan
...Assuming 300 Wh per mile that US$ 11,55 would drive you 70000/300 = 256 miles . (Not counting use for heating etc).


This guy is commuting at least one direction (if not both) in the dark in this gross weather we've had this February so heater & lights and such are all sucking on the battery. If he drives an hour a day then the car is plugged in the other 23hrs per day. In February in Saskatchewan this is a commuter vehicle (a very cool one) but that's about it.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
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Seat heat, steering wheel, defrost and battery warmer eat a lot of juice.

With our current cold snap it would cost a fortune to charge outdoors.
 

DaSleeper

Trolling Hypocrites
May 27, 2007
33,676
1,665
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Northern Ontario,
Seat heat, steering wheel, defrost and battery warmer eat a lot of juice.

With our current cold snap it would cost a fortune to charge outdoors.
Cold batteries don't charge well!



This winter I bought a battery warmer for my Car battery....When my wife asked why I showed her..
At -30 c I plugged both the battery warmer and battery charger in at the same time
For the first half hour the battery charger needle didn't move from "0" then as the battery warmed up it started to charge more and more!
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
36,362
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Vancouver Island
This guy is commuting at least one direction (if not both) in the dark in this gross weather we've had this February so heater & lights and such are all sucking on the battery. If he drives an hour a day then the car is plugged in the other 23hrs per day. In February in Saskatchewan this is a commuter vehicle (a very cool one) but that's about it.
I'm guessing his employer is footing the bill for power while charging at work. Everyone else should demand free gas.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,388
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Cold batteries don't charge well!
This winter I bought a battery warmer for my Car battery....When my wife asked why I showed her..
At -30 c I plugged both the battery warmer and battery charger in at the same time
For the first half hour the battery charger needle didn't move from "0" then as the battery warmed up it started to charge more and more!
I love battery warmers. I can deal with a cold seat and steering wheel but dragging the boat deep cycle battery out to boost is a pain in the ass.

True Story. When working in metro Vancouver a person saw my block heater cord and asked if my truck was electric.
 

petros

The Central Scrutinizer
Nov 21, 2008
109,388
11,445
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Low Earth Orbit
I'm guessing his employer is footing the bill for power while charging at work. Everyone else should demand free gas.
Some employers here provide electrified parking spots to plug in block heaters, charging a vehicle would be easy.

Here is the thing tho. That kinda perk is considered income. Do you think "low paid service industry" moonbats will enjoy being dinged for taxes on a $300 a month parking spot?