It's Official - Sidney Crosby's an Idiot


Cannuck
+1
#1
"If its not broke, don't fix it" - Sidney Crosby commenting on the NHL and the current economics


www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=409338 (external - login to view)
 
damngrumpy
+4
#2  Top Rated Post
Crosby is stating the truth in some respects. The owners of the teams did not restrain themselves
and they ended up with an imbalance. Most ended up becoming victims of their own arrogance.
For one thing, the players might well have accepted the deal of fifty fifty if they honored the current
agreements until they expired.
This time I side with the players for the most part, the owners got what they deserved and now they
are going to pay for their mistakes.
 
IdRatherBeSkiing
+2
#3
What's idiotic about that? The NHL is not broke. They are greedy. If they want to make more money, cut out Betman's wet dream franchises like Phoenix and Carolina and Tampa Bay and focus more on the US north and Canada. Instead they want to ram something down the throats of the players. Not that they aren't also greedy little bast-ards too. Billionaires fighting with Millionaires.

The owner's won't really start negotiating until January when they start losing NBC TV revenue. The players know this. Don't expect any resolution until the winter.
 
PoliticalNick
+3
#4
Sid is being an idiot. I don't even know why this KID is on the players' executive other than being the league's top star these days. He has no experience or education in business and has not really paid his dues in time invested in the league yet. The NHLPA is shooting itself in the foot by putting him in the position and he is making it worth shooting his mouth of like a moron. If the system wasn't broken we wouldn't have half the teams losing money every year. Don't these guys realize sustainability should be forefront in their consideration of bargaining positions.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Crosby is stating the truth in some respects. The owners of the teams did not restrain themselves
and they ended up with an imbalance. Most ended up becoming victims of their own arrogance.
For one thing, the players might well have accepted the deal of fifty fifty if they honored the current
agreements until they expired.
This time I side with the players for the most part, the owners got what they deserved and now they
are going to pay for their mistakes.

The league is offering to maintain existing contracts.
 
Cannuck
+1
#5
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Crosby is stating the truth in some respects. The owners of the teams did not restrain themselves
and they ended up with an imbalance.

Correction, some owners didn't restrain themselves. The only way the smart owners can restrain the idiot owners is through collective bargaining. To do it outside the agreement would be collusion.

Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

What's idiotic about that? The NHL is not broke.

Twelve teams made money last year and eighteen teams did not. The system is clearly broken when over half the league is losing money. If you magically moved PHX, CAR and TBY to profitable locations, you would still have half the teams losing money.
 
Mowich
#6
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Sid is being an idiot. I don't even know why this KID is on the players' executive other than being the league's top star these days. He has no experience or education in business and has not really paid his dues in time invested in the league yet. The NHLPA is shooting itself in the foot by putting him in the position and he is making it worth shooting his mouth of like a moron. If the system wasn't broken we wouldn't have half the teams losing money every year. Don't these guys realize sustainability should be forefront in their consideration of bargaining positions.



The league is offering to maintain existing contracts.

The system was broken the moment Bets and the Owners decided to prop up teams who couldn't raise sufficient revenues of their own to support their teams. That is just illogical. They gave it a try.......it obviously hasn't worked........get rid of those teams or send them North to Canada where we actually have hockey fans.

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

Correction, some owners didn't restrain themselves. The only way the smart owners can restrain the idiot owners is through collective bargaining. To do it outside the agreement would be collusion.



Twelve teams made money last year and eighteen teams did not. The system is clearly broken when over half the league is losing money. If you magically moved PHX, CAR and TBY to profitable locations, you would still have half the teams losing money.

Well that just tells me that those teams need to go too. Get the league back to a reasonable size. There would still be enough teams to make it interesting and more fans might actually start watching some of the regular season games.

I tried to catch every single game I could last season and I still missed a bunch of them.
 
Cannuck
#7
Quote:

The system was broken the moment Bets and the Owners decided to prop up teams who couldn't raise sufficient revenues of their own to support their teams. That is just illogical. They gave it a try.......it obviously hasn't worked........get rid of those teams or send them North to Canada where we actually have hockey fans.


Let's not confuse issues. The move to non traditional markets was an attempt to grow the game and get a network TV deal. It has, for the most part failed. So? Where do we go from here. The league should be cut down to 24 teams. CAR, FLA, TBY, NJD, CBJ, ANA, NSH PHO all need to go and two of them can be moved to Canada. That can't happen without approval of the players as they would fight the elimination of 150 jobs.
 
Kreskin
+2
#8
He should get his head examined.
 
captain morgan
#9
Quote: Originally Posted by IdRatherBeSkiingView Post

What's idiotic about that? The NHL is not broke. They are greedy. If they want to make more money, cut out Betman's wet dream franchises like Phoenix and Carolina and Tampa Bay and focus more on the US north and Canada. Instead they want to ram something down the throats of the players. Not that they aren't also greedy little bast-ards too. Billionaires fighting with Millionaires.

The owner's won't really start negotiating until January when they start losing NBC TV revenue. The players know this. Don't expect any resolution until the winter.

It's the owners that put up 100% of the risk capital to purchase/operate the team.

If the NHLPA wants to be compensated as a direct % of the revenues; then assume a risk position in the venture and don't expect to have any guaranteed salary/contract.

They can take the 'X' % of their share and split it among themselves.. Ofcourse, this would result in the players in AZ and NC getting next to nothing for their efforts
 
Cannuck
#10
The NHL's Problem: Only Three Teams Are Making Real Money - Forbes (external - login to view)
 
JLM
#11
The main problem with the N.H.L. is they think it's all about them. I bet for every job there, there are 4 or 5 spin off jobs- like zamboni operator, hot dog vendor, motel owner, hockey equipment manufactures etc. etc. etc. who are going hungry and no one gives a sh*t about.
 
damngrumpy
+1
#12
The fact is the teams in non profitable markets have to move and America is not going
to make hockey on top of their entertainment list especially in southern markets.
The idea is the same as trying to draw cricket crowds to games outside in January.
Forget it, we should have northern US teams, more Canadian teams and then open
the road to a European division of the league.
If I were the players I would hold out too the non profitable owners are going to have to sell
to someone if this keeps up.
most owners believed the players would cave in and that is not happening the owners appear
to be looking for answers they are losing too much especially the profitable teams and the
cracks are beginning to appear. The players they are not budging so far at all.;
 
Cannuck
+1
#13
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

The fact is ....

The fact is the system is broken. Sid's an idiot.
 
PoliticalNick
#14
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

The main problem with the N.H.L. is they think it's all about them. I bet for every job there, there are 4 or 5 spin off jobs- like zamboni operator, hot dog vendor, motel owner, hockey equipment manufactures etc. etc. etc. who are going hungry and no one gives a sh*t about.

Don't get me started on the equipment manufacturers. Ever since my oldest boy played AAA bantam I have had issues with them. In the last 4 years he played we spent $2500 on sticks and about $4000 on skates and other gear meanwhile all the millionaires get all they want for free. I was not happy about subsidizing guys making hundreds of thousands and more every year.
 
JLM
#15
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

Don't get me started on the equipment manufacturers. Ever since my oldest boy played AAA bantam I have had issues with them. In the last 4 years he played we spent $2500 on sticks and about $4000 on skates and other gear meanwhile all the millionaires get all they want for free. I was not happy about subsidizing guys making hundreds of thousands and more every year.

Yep, the outfit should go in the recycling bin and Bettman to the landfill!
 
captain morgan
#16
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Forget it, we should have northern US teams, more Canadian teams and then open
the road to a European division of the league.

Costs would be extremely high to accommodate that kind of travel. In addition, the European league(s) have really not taken-off the same way as the North American league.

The public's support just isn't there in the same manner (read: revenues) as evidenced by all of the teams selling advertising space on the players' jerseys.

Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

If I were the players I would hold out too the non profitable owners are going to have to sell
to someone if this keeps up.
most owners believed the players would cave in and that is not happening the owners appear
to be looking for answers they are losing too much especially the profitable teams and the
cracks are beginning to appear. The players they are not budging so far at all.;

Who in their right mind would buy an NHL team that is losing money hand over fist and has labor troubles?

Quote: Originally Posted by CannuckView Post

The fact is the system is broken. Sid's an idiot.

No doubt.

Sid is losing 7 figures a year in direct salary and likely a pail of cash on the endorsements
 
wulfie68
#17
Quote: Originally Posted by damngrumpyView Post

Forget it, we should have northern US teams, more Canadian teams and then open
the road to a European division of the league.

OK I'm on board with Northern US and Canadian teams but really the list of cities that could and would support a team is small, particularly in Canada. Yes we love our game but its a big business that places like Quebec City can't keep up with. And why would you want to open a Euro division and deal with all the logistical headaches involved in travel and timezones? Its bad enough on one continent, never mind adding on another one...

As for Sid being an idiot, I don't think he's any more an idiot than any other player: they ALL think that the owners are making enough and the players deserve a bigger cut than what is on the table.
 
Cannuck
+1
#18
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Costs would be extremely high to accommodate that kind of travel. In addition, the European league(s) have really not taken-off the same way as the North American league.


The public's support just isn't there in the same manner (read: revenues) as evidenced by all of the teams selling advertising space on the players' jerseys.

It's twenty bucks to go to a Modo game in the Swedish Elite League and they play in a 7600 seat arena (the KHL only has 3 arenas over 12,000 and 14 under 7500). There is no evidence to suggest Europeans are prepared to pay NHL ticket prices or build NHL sized arenas. A European division is a pipe dream

Quote: Originally Posted by wulfie68View Post

As for Sid being an idiot, I don't think he's any more an idiot than any other player: they ALL think that the owners are making enough and the players deserve a bigger cut than what is on the table.

He's an idiot because he says the system isn't broke.
 
PoliticalNick
+2
#19
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

Sid is losing 7 figures a year in direct salary and likely a pail of cash on the endorsements

I really don't care if Crosby or the other players ever earn another dime playing hockey,and I don't care if the owners all go bankrupt. The only sympathy I have in this fight is for the arena staff and part-timers making an average wage or less. There are far more of those people affected more severely than the players or owners.
 
captain morgan
#20
Quote: Originally Posted by PoliticalNickView Post

I really don't care if Crosby or the other players ever earn another dime playing hockey,and I don't care if the owners all go bankrupt. The only sympathy I have in this fight is for the arena staff and part-timers making an average wage or less. There are far more of those people affected more severely than the players or owners.


I don't disagree, but I will say this: It's the owners that put up all the cash and take all the risk in this deal. None of the arena staff would have those jobs if the ownership didn't take the chance in the first place.
 
talloola
#21
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I don't disagree, but I will say this: It's the owners that put up all the cash and take all the risk in this deal. None of the arena staff would have those jobs if the ownership didn't take the chance in the first place.

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

I was very happy to see 'Pavel Bure' accept his award last night, now he is in the hall of fame.
By far the best and most exciting player the canucks have ever signed, too bad things went sour
between he and pat quinn, or he would have played out his career in vancouver.

Well deserved, and congrats to adam oates, joe sakic, and mats sundin, although canucks saw him after
his legs were gone, and only the spirit was left, but he had his day, well deserved also.
 
JLM
#22
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

I was very happy to see 'Pavel Bure' accept his award last night, now he is in the hall of fame.
By far the best and most exciting player the canucks have ever signed, too bad things went sour
between he and pat quinn, or he would have played out his career in vancouver.

Well deserved, and congrats to adam oates, joe sakic, and mats sundin, although canucks saw him after
his legs were gone, and only the spirit was left, but he had his day, well deserved also.

Better than Linden you think?
 
Cannuck
#23
Crosby holds his ground on CBA frustration, contract issues (external - login to view)

Stop it Sid, you're gonna make me pee!
 
talloola
#24
Quote: Originally Posted by JLMView Post

Better than Linden you think?

bure was much more talented than linden, a very gifted skater, and goal scorer,
he could handle and control the puck at top speed better than any other player
I had seen, no comparison to linden, who was a very hard worker, a very good player,
a very valuable player to the team, and contributed at a high level all of his career,
but no, he did not have the skills of bure, nowhere near, and a totally different type
of player.

linden won't ever be put in the NHL hockey hall of fame.
 
captain morgan
#25
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

it is a partnership between owners and players, they need each other, and also need an agreement that is
fair for all, it is winding down slowly, just money stuff left on the table.
last negotiations the players assoc agreed to a cap, which was a trade off for other things the players
asked for, it was a fair trade.
Now the NHL want some of those 'things' back which they negotiated in good faith, but there is no way
they would ever remove the cap.
These are tough negotiations and the players union must not cave in to the pressure, they must stand
their ground and fight for their rights, it is the fair and democratic way to do things.

'Fair' is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

The last CBA has expired, in essence, there no longer is an agreement in place. All of the terms that existed in the previous agreement, in theory, have no bearing on any go-forward agreement that is being negotiated.

At the end of the day, the owners hold all the cards in this discussion. My belief is that the present economic environment for the league is such that maintaining the status quo will result in dying a slow death, hence the push to take a greater share of the revenues. It is for this reason that I think that the owners are prepared to dig in their heels on the issue.

Everyone will end up losing in the end, but the owners are setting the foundation of the future relationship that the league has with the NHLPA.
 
JLM
#26
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

bure was much more talented than linden, a very gifted skater, and goal scorer,
he could handle and control the puck at top speed better than any other player
I had seen, no comparison to linden, who was a very hard worker, a very good player,
a very valuable player to the team, and contributed at a high level all of his career,
but no, he did not have the skills of bure, nowhere near, and a totally different type
of player.

linden won't ever be put in the NHL hockey hall of fame.

I hear you Talloola, BUT over the long haul I see Linden as the better player, he was more for the team, Bure was more for himself, Linden was a character player & a person of character, always putting the other person first whether it be a team mate or a child at Canuck Place. For dependability in all situations I'll pick Linden. I've found in life it's not always the "brightest light" that is most admired.
 
talloola
#27
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

'Fair' is entirely in the eye of the beholder.

The last CBA has expired, in essence, there no longer is an agreement in place. All of the terms that existed in the previous agreement, in theory, have no bearing on any go-forward agreement that is being negotiated.

At the end of the day, the owners hold all the cards in this discussion. My belief is that the present economic environment for the league is such that maintaining the status quo will result in dying a slow death, hence the push to take a greater share of the revenues. It is for this reason that I think that the owners are prepared to dig in their heels on the issue.

Everyone will end up losing in the end, but the owners are setting the foundation of the future relationship that the league has with the NHLPA.

They will be taking a larger share of the revenue, compared to last agreement, and I don't agree with
your explanation that the players decide to hold their ground on 'certain' agreements put in place last negotiations, is still alive and on the table
for discussion, and that is fair.

There are teams making huge profits, and teams losing money, the have nots are reinbursed by the haves,
has been that way for a long time.

The canucks for one, are a very rich organization, along with toronto, who makes the most money, and
many others doing just fine, the state of the financial wealth of the NHL is in good shape.
I'm not 'all' for the owners, this is a two way partnership, both need each other, the owners would not
be in this business without the highly talented players, and vica versa, they must work together for
the good of the league, and that is not the owners riding roughshod over the players assoc, forcing
them to give back, give back, give back.
There are some parts of running the NHL that the owners must take responsibility for, but they choose
to throw their money around recklesley, throw too much money at free agents, then turnaround and
and try to punish the players for their own stupidity.
I don't know how some of these owners made all of their multi millions, as some of the stupid things
they have done in the NHL makes one raise the eye brows, they couldn't be doing that with the rest of
their businesses.
Bettman must straighten out his mistakes he made with southern teams in the up n coming few years, and
get those team moved to areas where the fans will support it.

He has done well by moving atlanta to winnipeg, now lets see a few others moved. My goodness bettman
was given a huge raise for himself to 8 million a year, poor baby, he must be struggling to make ends meet each month, we might see him at the food bank soon.

The NHL is not in financial trouble, the lockout might make a few of those fans in those cities who don't
give a rats *** about the game, forget about it and not come back, but the rest of the fans will be
back as soon as the game is back, there are long waiting lists for seasons tickets in many cities,
and hockey is alive and well, and the game is better than it ever was.
 
captain morgan
#28
I suppose that it comes down to this: If the NHLPA believe that they deserve a guaranteed 'X' percent of the revenues, then it's time to belly-up to the bar and contribute a guaranteed 'Y' value... The owners are committing hard cash as their side in the form of salaries, arenas, marketing, admin, etc.. These items are largely quantifiable and measurable. That said, the NHLPA will have to justify their contribution, but in real terms; offering a 110% effort and the hope that you'll win the cup doesn't work so well with the bank in terms of financing.

The choice is theirs to make.
 
talloola
#29
Quote: Originally Posted by captain morganView Post

I suppose that it comes down to this: If the NHLPA believe that they deserve a guaranteed 'X' percent of the revenues, then it's time to belly-up to the bar and contribute a guaranteed 'Y' value... The owners are committing hard cash as their side in the form of salaries, arenas, marketing, admin, etc.. These items are largely quantifiable and measurable. That said, the NHLPA will have to justify their contribution, but in real terms; offering a 110% effort and the hope that you'll win the cup doesn't work so well with the bank in terms of financing.

The choice is theirs to make.

they allready made an agreement long ago to do revenue sharing. this negotiations has seen the sharing
cut back to 50% each, but there is much more to all of this than 'that'.

the responsibilities the NHLPA have to the care of players is much more than demanding a share of profits,
so check into the complex agreements between the NHL and the NHLPA, its not a simple agreement to share
profits, much much more than that.

Players have had to give up a share of their annual pay for a long time according to how the profits
are doing for the NHL, there is a name for that part of their relationship, can't remember.
 
Cannuck
+1
#30
Quote: Originally Posted by talloolaView Post

...the responsibilities the NHLPA have to the care of players is much more than demanding a share of profits,
so check into the complex agreements between the NHL and the NHLPA, its not a simple agreement to share
profits, much much more than that.

Players have had to give up a share of their annual pay for a long time according to how the profits
are doing for the NHL, there is a name for that part of their relationship, can't remember.

The league and the players have never agreed to share profits. I'm sure the league would take that in a heartbeat over revenue sharing. I don't think the players would be so eager.
 

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