New legislation designed to keep mentally ill murderers - Your opinion is???????

Goober

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Jan 23, 2009
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Stephen Harper tears up over bill to keep mentally ill murderers in prison longer | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ver-schoenborns-young-victims/article8404428/

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...nd-not-criminally-responsible/article8388921/


OTTAWA – New legislation designed to keep mentally ill murderers like Greyhound bus passenger beheader Vince Li and child killer Allan Schoenborn off the streets for longer periods, if not indefinitely, is raising concerns this is little more than a knee-jerk reaction to a few sensational, albeit rare, cases.

Bill C-54, the “Not Criminally Responsible Reform Act” will create a “high risk” designation for those deemed not criminally responsible for committing a particularly brutal offence or one that resulted in a serious personal injury that raises the likelihood of further violence.

Those given the high-risk designation will be barred from obtaining a conditional or absolute discharge that would allow them to live freely in the community, and the designation can only be revoked by the courts on the recommendation of a provincial or territorial mental health review board.

“We are giving the courts the powers they need to keep those deemed too dangerous to be released where they should be — in custody,” Prime Minister Stephen Harper said at a news conference Friday in British Columbia, shortly after the bill was tabled in the House of Commons.

The bill will not change the Criminal Code criteria used to exempt an individual of criminal responsibility because of a mental disorder, nor will it affect someone’s access to treatment, he said.

The provisions will, however, be retroactive – which means if passed, they could apply to people such as Li, who decapitated fellow passenger Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba in 2008, and Schoenborn, who killed his three children in Merritt, B.C., the same year. Both were found not criminally responsible due to mental health problems and Crown prosecutors may be able to make a case to apply the new rules to them as long as both remain institutionalized.
 

Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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raising concerns this is little more than a knee-jerk reaction to a few sensational, albeit rare, cases.
just because it is a knee-jerk reaction, doesn't mean it is wrong.

Bill C-54, the “Not Criminally Responsible Reform Act” will create a “high risk” designation for those deemed not criminally responsible for committing a particularly brutal offence or one that resulted in a serious personal injury that raises the likelihood of further violence.
People that should never see sunlight except from behind bars will now be on the right side of them. These are not people who can be redeemed in most cases due to mental illness which has precipitated a heinous act demonstrating they are a danger to society.

How is this a problem? For whom would this be a problem?
 

Liberalman

Senate Member
Mar 18, 2007
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To the Conservative government sterilization is still an option. To the PMO it’s all about their strong grip on their caucus.
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Sal

Hall of Fame Member
Sep 29, 2007
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Mental health and human rights activists?
Really, why?

I consider myself to be for mental health and human rights.

They need to be contained for the good of society not out among us. I don't believe they should be tortured or punished as it would do no good. But they can not walk among us for our good and for their good.

So where does that break down? I seriously don't see it?
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
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Stephen Harper tears up over bill to keep mentally ill murderers in prison longer | Canadian Politics | Canada | News | National Post

Prime Minister chokes up over Schoenborn

Ottawa to toughen rules for offenders found not criminally responsible - The Globe and Mail


OTTAWA – New legislation designed to keep mentally ill murderers like Greyhound bus passenger beheader Vince Li and child killer Allan Schoenborn off the streets for longer periods, if not indefinitely, is raising concerns this is little more than a knee-jerk reaction to a few sensational, albeit rare, cases.

Bill C-54, the “Not Criminally Responsible Reform Act” will create a “high risk” designation for those deemed not criminally responsible for committing a particularly brutal offence or one that resulted in a serious personal injury that raises the likelihood of further violence.

Those given the high-risk designation will be barred from obtaining a conditional or absolute discharge that would allow them to live freely in the community, and the designation can only be revoked by the courts on the recommendation of a provincial or territorial mental health review board.

“We are giving the courts the powers they need to keep those deemed too dangerous to be released where they should be — in custody,” Prime Minister Stephen Harper said at a news conference Friday in British Columbia, shortly after the bill was tabled in the House of Commons.

The bill will not change the Criminal Code criteria used to exempt an individual of criminal responsibility because of a mental disorder, nor will it affect someone’s access to treatment, he said.

The provisions will, however, be retroactive – which means if passed, they could apply to people such as Li, who decapitated fellow passenger Tim McLean on a Greyhound bus in Manitoba in 2008, and Schoenborn, who killed his three children in Merritt, B.C., the same year. Both were found not criminally responsible due to mental health problems and Crown prosecutors may be able to make a case to apply the new rules to them as long as both remain institutionalized.


I'm sure this will shock some. Kudos to Mr. Harper and the Conservatives.
 

karrie

OogedyBoogedy
Jan 6, 2007
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I heard that's because the criminally insane still have rights.

Something along the same line as a womans right to choose.


I think there needs to be a balance in cases like the one Harper is highlighting here. There is so much doubt, in so many people's minds, as to his mental state at the time. And his mental state in the future. I don't think it's unfair to take a harder look at cases like his, and find a way to find a balance.
 

taxslave

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 25, 2008
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While it may be unfortunate but some people just have to be locked up forever to protect the rest of the population and themselves. The only other option would be to execute them.
 

damngrumpy

Executive Branch Member
Mar 16, 2005
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kelowna bc
The old days saw the criminally insane incarcerated for their protection and the
protection of society. If someone is not capable of being responsible for their actions,
they should not be running loose in the community. A person who is violent is not
subject to the constitution, as criminal activity trumps the constitution.
The real reason Harper does not want to go that far is because the medical costs for
the insane or mentally stressed would drive costs through the roof.
Yes people do have the right to sleep under bridges, but the treatment they have now
received from all governments is appalling.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
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You know what concerns me about this? Not that certain individuals like the two mentioned in the article would be kept under much tighter constraints and not allowed to roam freely within the community, because I do think that should happen. They shouldn't be free in that sense. Nor does it trouble me that this does actual damage to all those with mental illness, it won't. Let's face it, the mentally ill that get the best of the best treatment are these guys. So no worries, society as a whole will continue to step over the homeless rambling guy on the street corner. That is until he pulls a knife and cuts off someone's head, if he does. Until such a time, he will continue to remain invisible.

No, what bother's me is that people like the two mentioned in the article will become the poster children for mental illness. The media will perpetuate this, it'll make for good copy. There will be a lot of hand wringing done over our treatment of the mentally ill, using our continued incarceration of subject one and subject two as the main talking points. It will be another black and white, all or nothing issue. And in the meantime the rambling homeless guy on the corner remains on the corner, suffering and ignored.

So no, Vince Li should not ever be allowed to roam freely. Although his illness may be no fault of his own, it has already been established what tragedy can happen when he's allowed to roam freely, unsupervised and unmedicated. There has to be a middle ground between locking someone up for the rest of their lives and simply allowing them to be released. And if this bill is a step towards establishing a balance between the two, then I will support it.
 

SLM

The Velvet Hammer
Mar 5, 2011
29,151
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London, Ontario
Far from it. Forensic Units are the least of the least.

These high profile cases? Really? The average unknown mentally ill inmate, sure. But just like these guys, due to their infamy and contrary to their bank balances, seem to somehow retain the best of the best in legal representation, I'd be willing to bet that they get the psychiatric opinions of the top psychiatrists too. At some point or another at least.
 

JLM

Hall of Fame Member
Nov 27, 2008
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I think the sad reality is these people can never be fully trusted. There should definitely be an institution besides prison available for them as in many cases it is not their fault. I heard some expert????????????? remarking on the nut from Merritt who murdered his 3 children that there is a 93% chance he'll never reoffend. Well, thank you very much but I sure don't want anyone in my community who has a 7% chance of killiing some one..............it's bad enough we have people like that that we don't know without having anyone we can identify.