David Suzuki's Rock bus Eco - Tour -Mr .Kyoto himself

[Tonington]

China did sign onto Kyoto, only with different obligations because of the classification of the country as developing. When Russia signed, the treaty had enough members from one of the Annexes(can't remember which Annex) to put the treaty into effect. Kyoto needed China and other developing nations to be under a different set of rules, otherwise the trading of carbon credits would take place how? You need a growing country to finance the infrastructure (a carbon credit). The country becomes more affluent, and in the process they have actually a leg up on us. We will have to replace our infrastructure, whereas developing nations are getting cleaner technology cheaper. The only other way to my knowledge to get carbon credits(without greedy industry having licenses to create them...) is to plant trees.

So, we can all admit there are problems with the treaty, it comes back to concessions. They had to be made, can you honestly think of any treaty where one country isn't trying to get the best deal for themselves? What is good about Kyoto, besides being international, is the economics involved is a powerful incentive. Nothing speaks like money in this issue.

Why these discussiona always come back to Kyoto, I'll never know. Maybe I can formulate my own law where as posts pile up in an environmental discussion, the probability that Kyoto will come up approaches 1.000 . To be honest I'm getting sick of hearing about it and sometimes I think we might be better off just doing it ourselves, that is if we could even get a consensus here in Canada which is probably as difficult as the international treaty henceforth known as "For those with no imagination, insight or original ideas" Protocol.

Obviously I'm being foolish. We can reduce pollution without using the K word, maybe we just need a little more (B-word, pl.)

 

[CDNBear]

China did sign onto Kyoto, only with different obligations because of the classification of the country as developing. When Russia signed, the treaty had enough members from one of the Annexes(can't remember which Annex) to put the treaty into effect. Kyoto needed China and other developing nations to be under a different set of rules, otherwise the trading of carbon credits would take place how? You need a growing country to finance the infrastructure (a carbon credit). The country becomes more affluent, and in the process they have actually a leg up on us. We will have to replace our infrastructure, whereas developing nations are getting cleaner technology cheaper. The only other way to my knowledge to get carbon credits(without greedy industry having licenses to create them...) is to plant trees.

So, we can all admit there are problems with the treaty, it comes back to concessions. They had to be made, can you honestly think of any treaty where one country isn't trying to get the best deal for themselves? What is good about Kyoto, besides being international, is the economics involved is a powerful incentive. Nothing speaks like money in this issue.

Why these discussiona always come back to Kyoto, I'll never know. Maybe I can formulate my own law where as posts pile up in an environmental discussion, the probability that Kyoto will come up approaches 1.000 . To be honest I'm getting sick of hearing about it and sometimes I think we might be better off just doing it ourselves, that is if we could even get a consensus here in Canada which is probably as difficult as the international treaty henceforth known as "For those with no imagination, insight or original ideas" Protocol.

Obviously I'm being foolish. We can reduce pollution without using the K word, maybe we just need a little more (B-word, pl.)

I know we always go around and come back to Kyoto, but in this thread, Suzuki is a Kyoto shill. So it was only a matter of time. lmao.

 

[Avro]

To be honest I'm getting sick of hearing about it and sometimes I think we might be better off just doing it ourselves

If we do it ourselves it dosen't solve the Global problem.

That is why an international agreement is needed and as you know this is a only the first step.

 

[Tonington]

The way I see it, we can spend money on ourselves now to clean up our act, and then help out the other nations. Or we can spend our money elsewhere and then spend money here cleaning things up. I'm sure in the second round we'll have to step it up, I think it's better if we're on the move ourselves when that time comes, rather than having all of our obligations met in foreign countries. Of course that's not to say we can't be mixing it up, personally I'd rather see more money spent here in Canada rather than over-seas.

 

[CDNBear]

If we do it ourselves it dosen't solve the Global problem.

That is why an international agreement is needed and as you know this is a only the first step.

Ummm, if you are aware of the issue I just brought up, then who is working on the global problem. Need I post the stats on the EU's failure to meet targets, all while purchasing or schmoozing credits?

No one is meeting the targets, no one is going to, many EU consumers have already seen a 65% jump in there electric bills.

Kyoto is not the answer. If they all got together tomorrow and rewrote it, so as all polution is covered and every country is accountable, with no credits at all. Then we'ld be gettin' somewhere.

Odd, how it seems to be only the socialists pushing this so hard. That only fuels my theory, that it's global welfare.

 

[L Gilbert]

so you expect Suzuki to plan his entire tour around the kindness of strangers

not much of a business plan.

What the f are you talking about? What business? Look, pilgrom, there's three ways of funding his tour he can take,; kindness of nice folks like me, gov't funding, and using his own pocket money.

the point is there's no infrastructure to support a nation-wide tour based on electric power. you guys are expecting Suzuki to make bricks out of straw.

My point was that if he was so conscientious towards the environment, he'd have come up with a more conscientious method of getting around, Rick Hansen got around Canada in a wheelchair to get his point across.
Infrastructure? Geeee. Maybe in your section of the planet there's no electricity, but I even have electricity in my workshop that powers my 220 volt welder. 220 volts coupled with 30 amps can pack a lottta juice into yer batteries in a short period of time.
Personally, I don't care what Suzuki does with his straw.

 

[L Gilbert]

Actually I think they just expect him to lead by example.

You got it, Avro.

 

[L Gilbert]

he is

its called carbon neutrality. like I said at the outside its a concept that's too difficult for some to grasp, let alone be good enough for those out to put him down.

What's so tough? Minimize CO² emmissions is the goal, right? Suzuki could reduce his by a whopping pile if he'd go electric rather than diesel.

 

[L Gilbert]

I can't speak for Harper but Bush isn't the one screaming

"THE SKY IS FALLING!"

With regards to GW. This guy Suzuki is a liar and a hypocit. I particularly like the new Carbon Credit scam. Polute all you want and put a dollar amount to it... then invest that money in a green industry (or whatever).

Gore just got bagged pulling the same stuff. His household uses twice the power of an average American household.

"No worries" says Gore "I buy Carbon Credits."

These wealthy eco-nuts will never put a stop to their lifestyles or restrict their comfort in the least.

........ until it becomes more expensive to pollute than to be envirowise.

 

[L Gilbert]

I want real change across the board, land, sea and air. No trading of credits, not singluar visions of GHG as the worlds biggest issue. Total global anti polution action and now. Not some trumpt up global welfare scheme.

Me, too.

 

[L Gilbert]

You don't know Suzuki and you don't have the education to criticize him. You sure as hell are not qualified to call him a liar. You are welcome to your opinions, but opinions based on ignorance don't carry a hell of a lot of weight. While Suzuki didn't invent Kyoto, the accord had some good points, namely getting the world to work together on GW. It needs improvement but so do we all.

Nuts. The thing needs to be scrapped and a less political one developed.

 

[L Gilbert]

Developing... like China? lol

Another cowardly action by the Kyoto. Giving one of the worlds biggest economies and industrial base a developing nation status. What a crock. They knew China would tell them to stick it if they tried to get "green" tough with them. China could care less about the environment or what these green people think and the green people know that. So they gave a nation that has a manned space program a "developing" nation status.

That's about the size of it, Eag. It's poltics more than concern for being green.

 

[L Gilbert]

Considering China's infastructure and level of poverty I'd say it is a developing country.

Well, then in that sense, EVERY country is developing. After almost 30 years, we are still developing our marriage, my wife and I. :roll: Isn't the US trying to develop into something better? Canada? GB?

 

[Tonington]

Something to ponder, when does a developing nation become developed, and what happens to a developed nation when a former developing nation surpasses you? Can a developing nation really cause the stock markets across the world to meltdown?

 

[L Gilbert]

good post. Suzuki isn't perfect but, I mean, get serious. The guy's over 70 years old. If you ask me after all those years he's earned the right to pass all the gas he wants. at least he's ponying up.

Ah, old age: the penultimate excuse for being able to do whatever one wants whether one walks the talk or not.

 

[L Gilbert]

Good man Suzuki, anybody slagging him deserves a punch in the head.

Nothing but fear and common sense holding you back, windy.

 

[L Gilbert]

We can reduce pollution without using the K word, maybe we just need a little more (B-word, pl.)

Exactly. Forget the political crap in the Kyoto batch of a$$wipe and just develop something of our own. That twit Gordon Campbull & Co. did, I'm sure the rest of Canada could.

 

[L Gilbert]

If we do it ourselves it dosen't solve the Global problem.

That is why an international agreement is needed and as you know this is a only the first step.

So you think leaving our own backyard in a mess while telling and helping someone else fix theirs is a good way to do it? Last I heard, that was a good way for someone to find a reason to call you a hypocrite. There's no honor in being one, lemme tell ya.

 

[L Gilbert]

..........personally I'd rather see more money spent here in Canada rather than over-seas.

Ditto.

 

[Avro]

So you think leaving our own backyard in a mess while telling and helping someone else fix theirs is a good way to do it? Last I heard, that was a good way for someone to find a reason to call you a hypocrite. There's no honor in being one, lemme tell ya.

We can do both can't we?