Abolish the Senate

[mentalfloss]

It is a partisan issue though because the Cons and Liberals will look bad if the public outcry for abolition becomes an election issue.

Why do you think conbots like Das keep trying to deter people from having this conversation?

 

[Sal]

to me, this is sort of a non-partisan issue that every party should be in favor of doing. any party might support and any party might ignore it. that is what has happened in the past.

my vote will be based on issues where the parties are divided and will remain divided. things like gun control.



100 million is pocket change compared to what the CBC costs us.


remember when the cbc ran an article on the PM spending 300k to fly some business men home. I did some math at the time and discovered that the cbc tears through 300k like it is popcorn. by the time the plane landed, the cbc had buttered and salted over 300k worth of popcorn.

lol... and public perception is everything too...

 

[DaSleeper]

It is a partisan issue though because the Cons and Liberals will look bad if the public outcry for abolition becomes an election issue.

Why do you think conbots like Das keep trying to deter people from having this conversation?

What good is a partisan conversation like you do with no end in sight...you are just trying to score imaginary points points in a forum which doesn't change a bloody thing in the grand scheme of things...
Quit your friggin' crying and do something about it....
I'm all for an elected senate.....what about you???

 

[JamesBondo]

It is a partisan issue though because the Cons and Liberals will look bad if the public outcry for abolition becomes an election issue.

Why do you think conbots like Das keep trying to deter people from having this conversation?

I'd like to see all parties agree on reform. They won't during an election campaign. They can't score points if they are all holding hands and singing coombya

 

[taxslave]

What good is a partisan conversation like you do with no end in sight...you are just trying to score imaginary points points in a forum which doesn't change a bloody thing in the grand scheme of things...
Quit your friggin' crying and do something about it....
I'm all for an elected senate.....what about you???

Like all dippers he wants someone else to do something about something he doesn't like.

 

[JamesBondo]

What good is a partisan conversation like you do with no end in sight...you are just trying to score imaginary points points in a forum which doesn't change a bloody thing in the grand scheme of things...
Quit your friggin' crying and do something about it....
I'm all for an elected senate.....what about you???

I'm all for an elected senate, and I'm all for a senate that fires people when they spend 2 years in miami while on the taxpayer's dime. Personally, I'm not sure how to reconcile both ideas into 1.

Like all dippers he wants someone else to do something about something he doesn't like.

And we all agree that raising my taxes is part of the solution, correct?

 

[mentalfloss]

As it is perfectly clear now, the conbots are terrified to go through with this.

A shame really, as these are the same people who pride themselves as being stewards of the economy and protectors of da taxpayer.

Fukking liars, the lot of you.

 

[taxslave]

An elected senate will only be effective if it is equal. Same number of members from each province. I'm thinking three from each province. It would be no frills too. No pension, no golden handshake, no double dipping. No parties.

 

[Machjo]

Abolishing the senate will require constitutional changes, but it is totally worth it.

The senate has no actual function and it costs us $100 million a year!

It's the literal definition of waste!

Good luck with opening the Constitution. I've already been asking my local candidates about opening the Constitution and they won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. They know that if they open the Constitution, it won't be for a small incision. It'll be opening a
Pandora's box. Some will push to eliminate the separate school system while others will defend it. Some will push to eliminate language rights particular to the English and the French while others would defend them. Others would push to include private property rights commensurate with the UDHR. Others would push to eliminate the notwithstanding clause.

When the government refuses, insisting that it wants to deal exclusively with senate reform, all these groups will dig in their heals saying they won't cooperate unless all the other stuff is included too. Meech lake all over again with the same result: stalemate for another 20 years.

Senate reform is a pipe dream. Though it's true the present Constitution is holding Canada back and no one is happy with it, because everyone wants to modify it in different directions, it can only end in stalemate with Canada stuck spinning it's wheels in the mud.

 

[DaSleeper]

An elected senate will only be effective if it is equal. Same number of members from each province. I'm thinking three from each province. It would be no frills too. No pension, no golden handshake, no double dipping. No parties.

I agree...something like squeaky was proposing.....

 

[mentalfloss]

I never said it was easy.

That's why one of these parties must be willing to make it an election issue.

It certainly won't be from the one hiding in the closet though.

 

[JamesBondo]

Good luck with opening the Constitution. I've already been asking my local candidates about opening the Constitution and they won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. They know that if they open the Constitution, it won't be for a small incision. It'll be opening a
Pandora's box. Some will push to eliminate the separate school system while others will defend it. Some will push to eliminate language rights particular to the English and the French while others would defend them. Others would push to include private property rights commensurate with the UDHR. Others would push to eliminate the notwithstanding clause.

When the government refuses, insisting that it wants to deal exclusively with senate reform, all these groups will dig in their heals saying they won't cooperate unless all the other stuff is included too. Merchant lake all over again with the same result: stalemate for another 20 years.

Senate reform is a pipe dream. Though it's true the present Constitution is holding Canada back and no one is happy with it, because everyone wants to modify it in different directions, it can only end on stalemate with Canada stuck spinning it's wheels in the mud.

That about sums it up.

 

[Sal]

Good luck with opening the Constitution. I've already been asking my local candidates about opening the Constitution and they won't touch it with a ten-foot pole. They know that if they open the Constitution, it won't be for a small incision. It'll be opening a
Pandora's box. Some will push to eliminate the separate school system while others will defend it. Some will push to eliminate language rights particular to the English and the French while others would defend them. Others would push to include private property rights commensurate with the UDHR. Others would push to eliminate the notwithstanding clause.

When the government refuses, insisting that it wants to deal exclusively with senate reform, all these groups will dig in their heals saying they won't cooperate unless all the other stuff is included too. Meech lake all over again with the same result: stalemate for another 20 years.

Senate reform is a pipe dream. Though it's true the present Constitution is holding Canada back and no one is happy with it, because everyone wants to modify it in different directions, it can only end in stalemate with Canada stuck spinning it's wheels in the mud.

it's really a pity we couldn't vote to decide what the average Canadian wanted to do with the Senate, then open the Constitution change it and close it....onto the next issue

could that be done?

 

[DaSleeper]

I never said it was easy.

That's why one of these parties must be willing to make it an election issue.

It certainly won't be from the one hiding in the closet though.

Exactly the non-partisan answer expected from you!

 

[JamesBondo]

it's really a pity we couldn't vote to decide what the average Canadian wanted to do with the Senate, then open the Constitution change it and close it....onto the next issue

could that be done?

nice sentiment, but that didn't happen the last time we have a vote on the constitution. They expected us to vote yes or no on issues that were not even resolved. It was prudent to vote No simply if you didn't like writing blank cheques.

 

[Machjo]

As it is perfectly clear now, the conbots are terrified to go through with this.

A shame really, as these are the same people who pride themselves as being stewards of the economy and protectors of da taxpayer.

Fukking liars, the lot of you.

My Liberal Candidate won't touch the Constitution with a ten-foot pole and my NDP MP thinks it will be possible to open the Constitution just for Senate reform only. Though possible in theory, I think he's dreaming in colours. Quebec will certainly jump in, as will Nunavut. The First Nations will want in. The Greens will push to abolish the separate school system. Unless the NDP has a majority both federally and in most provinces including either Ontario or Quebec, a nice clean incision in the Constitution will be impossible.

 

[Sal]

nice sentiment, but that didn't happen the last time we have a vote on the constitution. They expected us to vote yes or no on issues that were not even resolved.

okay but "technically" could we do that?

could it be placed before the Canadian public as a vote
let's say the public voted abolish
open the Constitution...and change it so that could occur and then be done with it...

could we change the constitution one issue at a time or is that not possible with the way it is set up and if we can't why is that?

could it be done?

 

[tay]

Well, when it benefited the Liberals, they would call it "a sober second thought" but now it isn't benefiting them so much so we just hear them whine like the little biatches that they are.

I am all for senate reform. I believe the conservative were the only ones to push for reform, so I blame the NDP and the Liberals for not echoing that push for reform.

If you followed Canadian Politics you would realize the NDP has never participated in the Senator sham and still endorse it's removal........








Roll up the Red Carpet



Mulcair kicks off the NDP’s Roll up the Red Carpet tour | Canada's NDP / NPD du Canada

 

[Machjo]

it's really a pity we couldn't vote to decide what the average Canadian wanted to do with the Senate, then open the Constitution change it and close it....onto the next issue

could that be done?

Theoretically, but not in practical reality. For example, if Quebec knows the Feds are itching to reform the senate and needs Quebec to do it, Quebec will most certainly be prepared to play a game of Brinksmanship over this. Same with the First Nations. They want major Constitutional Reforms Of Their own. Much of the NDP Caucus is from Quebec. Liz May, seeing Quebec and the First Nations drawing lines in the sand, would figure oh what the heck, get rid of the separate school system too. Then the Catholic lobby would start saying hey, the senate's no big deal, let's just move on to something else, shall we.

 

[Sal]

Theoretically, but not in practical reality. For example, if Quebec knows the Feds are itching to reform the senate and needs Quebeconomic to do it, Quebec will most certainly be prepared to play a game of Brinkman ship over this. Same with the First Nations. They want major Constitutional Reforms Of Their own. Much of the NDP Caucus is from Quebec. Liz May, seeing Quebec and the First Nations drawing lines in the sand, would figure oh what the heck, get rid of the separate school system too. Then the Catholic lobby would start saying hey, the senate's Bo big deal, lwt's just move on to something elae, shall we.

that's what I was afraid you were going to say, the whole nation is held hostage by the desires and agendas of a separate groups and thus we stay still

what a novel happening

pity really