George W. Bush on Leno

[EagleSmack]

That statement certainly is coming back to haunt him, but anyone who has followed American politics knows that the ACA certainly was not irrelevant to the last few elections.

It would be very interesting to see what the election results would have been if the election were held today now that the people know they've been lied to.

Healthcare is already an entitlement in the US. There is a massive bureaucracy in place to try to provide healthcare to people who cannot afford it and private companies can't turn people away who are in urgent need of care.

Well it is an entitlement to some as they never have nor will pay a dime. I myself have been paying for mine as have others so it is not an entitlement.

Haha, in in your very last sentence you complained about corporate subsidies!

Where is the humor in that? Apples and oranges.

Again, we need to look at how this all works out on the whole. Providing more people with more coverage is obviously going to have a higher upfront cost, but the idea is to get the total expenditure down.

Now I see the humor in that! I doubt very highly that once this is installed people's premiums will only go up. They are already going up and these subsidies simply aren't there.

Did you read the story of the woman from Washington who Obama said was a success story? Sobering isn't it? Or do you want us to just ignore the reality of her situation?

I do enjoy stats though, which paint a pretty grim picture of the US healthcare system. Obviously you can get some of the best care in the world in the US, if you can afford it, but the overall picture is a country that spends an insane amount of healthcare and stacks up quite poorly in a number of key health indicators.

You mean obesity and life style choices in the US? Will Obamacare change that?

You and CDNBear clearly have not moved on from that....

Yes we have... you keep bringing us back to it. You are still on the Obama Administrations FIRST talking point when the roll out started. Ignore the webpage issues and focus on the good Obamacare will bring. Then the cancellations started coming...the lies being uncovered... people going to the exchanges finding that not only are they losing their coverage but the exchanges will be costing more.

Great stuff!

Oh... I'm from Massachusetts and we have similar health care laws. Do you know how they say folks won't have to go to the ER if they're sick? Think again. If I get sick my primary care physician tell me to go to the ER. I can only see him on a scheduled appointment which could be weeks or months away.

 

[CDNBear]

If you don't want to talk about any of these issues, why both posting?

I do, it's why I entered this thread, where I pointed out your error. Which you deflected with nonsense. Then just ignored altogether once you realized you were wrong, lol.

Yes we have... you keep bringing us back to it. You are still on the Obama Administrations FIRST talking point when the roll out started. Ignore the webpage issues and focus on the good Obamacare will bring. Then the cancellations started coming...the lies being uncovered... people going to the exchanges finding that not only are they losing their coverage but the exchanges will be costing more.

Great stuff!

But Eagle, that's not having an impact...

The fact is you can't judge the true impact until it actually comes into effect for real.

Funny stuff.

 

[BornRuff]

It would be very interesting to see what the election results would have been if the election were held today now that the people know they've been lied to.

Certainly would be interesting.

Well it is an entitlement to some as they never have nor will pay a dime. I myself have been paying for mine as have others so it is not an entitlement.

That is how all entitlements work. Nothing is free. Some people pay into them more than others.

Where is the humor in that? Apples and oranges.

You complain about corporate subsidies, but say you want insurance companies involved because you don't want them to go out of business.

The government shouldn't be crafting laws to benefit certain companies when the real intention is to help the American people.

Now I see the humor in that! I doubt very highly that once this is installed people's premiums will only go up. They are already going up and these subsidies simply aren't there.

Did you read the story of the woman from Washington who Obama said was a success story? Sobering isn't it? Or do you want us to just ignore the reality of her situation?

Insurance premiums are only one part of the total healthcare expenditure in the US.

Individual stories make great news, but it is not an effective way to judge a program like this.

You mean obesity and life style choices in the US? Will Obamacare change that?

That is always the argument, but evidence doesn't really back it up.

There are some pretty shameful issues, like infant mortality, which is pretty much completely an issue of getting people proper prenatal care. That shouldn't be a problem in a rich country like the US.

Yes we have... you keep bringing us back to it. You are still on the Obama Administrations FIRST talking point when the roll out started. Ignore the webpage issues and focus on the good Obamacare will bring. Then the cancellations started coming...the lies being uncovered... people going to the exchanges finding that not only are they losing their coverage but the exchanges will be costing more.

Great stuff!

Oh... I'm from Massachusetts and we have similar health care laws. Do you know how they say folks won't have to go to the ER if they're sick? Think again. If I get sick my primary care physician tell me to go to the ER. I can only see him on a scheduled appointment which could be weeks or months away.

Well, it is still true that the plan hasn't come into effect yet. We are just in the enrollment phase.

I think that the issue about people going to ERs when they are sick is more about people who can't get an appointment in any length of time because they can't get a primary care physician without insurance. Under your current system, people without any sort of coverage often have nowhere else to get medical attention than showing up in an ER.

The issue with getting short notice appointments is the same here in Canada, though I go to a walk in clinic when that happens.

 

[CDNBear]

Well, it is still true that the plan hasn't come into effect yet. We are just in the enrollment phase.

I think that the issue about people going to ERs when they are sick is more about people who can't get an appointment in any length of time because they can't get a primary care physician without insurance. Under your current system, people without any sort of coverage often have nowhere else to get medical attention than showing up in an ER.

The issue with getting short notice appointments is the same here in Canada, though I go to a walk in clinic when that happens.

Goal post shuffling and deflection.

You fail.

 

[Zipperfish]

Goal post shuffling and deflection.

You fail.

Excellent rebuttal. Factual, substantive. Clearly, you put a lot of thought into that. :lol:

 

[CDNBear]

Excellent rebuttal. Factual, substantive. Clearly, you put a lot of thought into that. :lol:

Because it doesn't pertain to the comments Eagle and I questioned.

I'm not surprised I had to explain that, your emotions have blinded you to reality, lol.

 

[Zipperfish]

Because it doesn't pertain to the comments Eagle and I questioned.

I'm not surprised I had to explain that, your emotions have blinded you to reality, lol.

It seems that many of yourcomments are school-boy ad hominem attacks. "You're a fag" isn't generally considered an appropriate rebuttal on a political forum, Bear. Perahps if you could raise your level of discourse a bit, discuss the issue at hand, you could have a meaningful dialogue with someone.

 

[CDNBear]

It seems that many of yourcomments are school-boy ad hominem attacks. "You're a fag" isn't generally considered an appropriate rebuttal on a political forum, Bear. Perahps if you could raise your level of discourse a bit, discuss the issue at hand, you could have a meaningful dialogue with someone.

I haven't called a member a fag, that was your school boy ad hominem attack on me, one you initiated I might add, nice try though.

It's funny watching you lie, I can only imagine how embarrassed and stupid you feel.

 

[Zipperfish]

I haven't called a member a fag, that was your school boy ad hominem attack, nice try though.

It's funny watching you lie, I can only imagine how embarrassed and stupid you feel.

Again with the personal attacks. I'm just saying you're not going to get anywhere if your first line of defence is to attack the speaker as opposed to what is being said. Such tactics rarely result in any kind of mutual understanding. Insetad of referring to your opponent as a "fag" try debating the issue at hand instead. I'll wager you'll find that vastly more satisfying. Peace!

 

[CDNBear]

Again with the personal attacks. I'm just saying you're not going to get anywhere if your first line of defence is to attack the speaker as opposed to what is being said. Such tactics rarely result in any kind of mutual understanding. Insetad of referring to your opponent as a "fag" try debating the issue at hand instead. I'll wager you'll find that vastly more satisfying. Peace!

Lies, lies and more lies, you are one funny dude.

 

[Zipperfish]

Lies, lies and more lies, you are one funny dude.

I'm a funny dude? Thanks! It's still really addressing the speaker, as opposed to discussion of the issue, but at least it's positive. A positive outlook will also make political discourse more rewarding. See, we can work together!

 

[CDNBear]

I'm a funny dude? Thanks! It's still really addressing the speaker, as opposed to discussion of the issue, but at least it's positive. A positive outlook will also make political discourse more rewarding. See, we can work together!

Until the next time I call your hero a fag, which he is, then look out, Zippy runs around the board weaponizing homosexuality.

Oh man, you had me in stitches as you lowered yourself to subhuman levels, then went on to cry about insults and personal attacks, when you were the one that initiated the whole thing and at the forefront.

You just can't make this stuff up. You have to witness it to believe it. Thankfully it all here for everyone to see. Although I bet you wish it wasn't, lol.

 

[Zipperfish]

Until the next time I call your hero a fag, which he is, then look out, Zippy runs around the board weaponizing homosexuality.

Oh man, you had me in stitches as you lowered yourself to subhuman levels, then went on to cry about insults and personal attacks, when you were the one that initiated the whole thing and at the forefront.

You just can't make this stuff up. You have to witness it to believe it. Thankfully it all here for everyone to see. Although I bet you wish it wasn't, lol.

You should try to address the issues rtaher than engage in personal attacks. Also, you have a tendency to repeat yourself. Try to articulate your thoughts thoroughly, but concisely, in well-thought-out posts, as opposed to simply making the same point repeatedly. We'll turn you into a proper political discussion contributor yet, Bear! Cheers.

 

[CDNBear]

You should try to address the issues rtaher than engage in personal attacks.

Says the guy that came in to this thread just to attack me...

 

[Zipperfish]

Says the guy that came in to this thread just to attack me... http://www.smileyvault.com/

OK, making progress. That's two posts now where you've managed not to call anyone a fag. Let's see if we can elevate things just a little more, avoid the personal attacks altogether.

I know that political chat boards can be daunting for special folks. There's a lot of clever people on here using big words and stuff, and I realize that can be intimidating for someone with limited intellectual capability like yourself. But that's not your fault, Bear! You are just as entitled to your opinion as alllthose smart guys are. Don't get frustrated and revert to just calling them "fags." Make a stand! State your point on the issue, and you'll earn the respect of the smart people here. You can do it!

 

[EagleSmack]

That is how all entitlements work. Nothing is free. Some people pay into them more than others.

Nobody is getting Health Care for free? Your head is deep in the sand.

You complain about corporate subsidies, but say you want insurance companies involved because you don't want them to go out of business.

I complained about corporate subsidies... and I say that the Congress should not have passed Obamacare.

Clear now?

The government shouldn't be crafting laws to benefit certain companies when the real intention is to help the American people.

Oh but they did! Certain companies... Unions... exemptions... all to get this passed.

The middle class is going to take it.

Insurance premiums are only one part of the total healthcare expenditure in the US.

Oh I know! There is a whole bevy of things. All prices and taxes will climb.

Individual stories make great news, but it is not an effective way to judge a program like this.

She was one example of the millions that are getting screwed like her. I don't feel like cutting and pasting for eternity of the horror stories.

There are some pretty shameful issues, like infant mortality, which is pretty much completely an issue of getting people proper prenatal care. That shouldn't be a problem in a rich country like the US.

The care was always there... you have to go get it. Obamacare cannot and will change life styles.

Well, it is still true that the plan hasn't come into effect yet. We are just in the enrollment phase.

Sorry Ruff... people just won't be silent because you and the Administration wants them to be. I know it would be convenient but.

People who have enrolled know they are getting a royal screwing so they are mad and are speaking out. They have been lied to and they are letting everyone know.

I think that the issue about people going to ERs when they are sick is more about people who can't get an appointment in any length of time because they can't get a primary care physician without insurance.

I have insurance and we in Massachusetts have a similar plan like the ACA... my Doc says go to the ER when I am sick.

Facts suck don't they?

Under your current system, people without any sort of coverage often have nowhere else to get medical attention than showing up in an ER.

And suddenly Doctors will be able to clear their schedules for them because of Obamacare?

Keep going.

Oh look! Zipper is adding his deflections to the mess called Obamacare.

 

[CDNBear]

Oh look! Zipper is adding his deflections to the mess called Obamacare.

You're being generous.

You'll have to excuse Zippy, the topics over his head so all he had was personal attacks, and homophobic innuendo (You know how those liberals are).

If you hang around awhile, he'll come by and tell you how he's superior though, lol.

 

[DaSleeper]

Remember ......The ugly lady said "You have to vote for the plan to find out what's in it...
And Obama said you have to apply and pay, and wait a year to get it??????????


Funny way to run a railroad................

 

[EagleSmack]

Until the next time I call your hero a fag, which he is, then look out, Zippy runs around the board weaponizing homosexuality.

.

That's how the tards do it Bear. They often make slanderous remarks about homosexuals and use it as a weapon to silence people. Just look at Alec Baldwin. I wonder if Zip has a gay hair stylist that he can roll out to us?

Remember ......The ugly lady said "You have to vote for the plan to find out what's in it...
And Obama said you have to apply and pay, and wait a year to get it??????????


Funny way to run a railroad................

And now this guy Ruff is saying we should not say anything negative about the plan till the first check is written.

Funny isn't it?

You're being generous.

You'll have to excuse Zippy, the topics over his head so all he had was personal attacks, and homophobic innuendo (You know how those liberals are).

If you hang around awhile, he'll come by and tell you how he's superior though, lol.

Why do liberals hate homosexuals so much?

 

[CDNBear]

Remember ......The ugly lady said "You have to vote for the plan to find out what's in it...
And Obama said you have to apply and pay, and wait a year to get it??????????


Funny way to run a railroad................

The sad thing is, I don't think anyone has any real opposition to public healthcare, but the wreck the Bamster created really wasn't the answer.

That's how the tards do it Bear. They often make slanderous remarks about homosexuals and use it as a weapon to silence people. Just look at Alec Baldwin. I wonder if Zip has a gay hair stylist that he can roll out to us?