Let's Bring Back the Old Gods!

[AnnaG]

Cool idea, John. I suggest Xodarap, the god of antipolitics.

 

[Cliffy]

I don't know... I like Aphrodite, goddess of aphrodisiacs.

 

[FiveParadox]

AnnaG, I was responding to the original poster.

If we, as Canadians, are stuck with a sovereign from the House of Saxe-Coburg and Gotha (I know, they're calling themselves Windsors now) [...]

 

[AnnaG]

I don't know... I like Aphrodite, goddess of aphrodisiacs.

That name's already taken.

 

[AnnaG]

AnnaG, I was responding to the original poster.

Ohhh. Sorry.

 

[VanIsle]

Hi Spade,
Why did I know before looking who started this thread?

 

[VanIsle]

We've just passed All Hallow's Eve so I guess we have the God of Hallow and next we have a more solemn occassion so we'll have to have the God of Remembrance.
Next?

 

[Spade]

AnnaG, I was responding to the original poster.

Even though the original post deals with extending the religious debate to include the old Gods (After all, it is Tiw'sday), I feel complelled to reply. May the Great Moderator and the Message Board Creator forgive me!

Today, I heard an argument on why our Governor General should be considered first and foremost as our head of state. Permit me to embellish it!

Our head of state (The GG) has real constitutional powers. These were exercised most recently when she agreed to prorogue Parliament last December; she could have denied that request and the Dion would be prime minister. Can you imagine the uproar across this peaceable "kingdom" if the Queen had been approached and she decided the fate of the minority government.

Yes, we were a colony. Yes, we respect that British heritage. However, like the femur of a whale, the monarchy for Canada is a vestigial appendage the evolution of this country no longer requires.

Treat the British royalty with respect and bonhomie, as we should any foreign guests.

 

[Spade]

Hi Spade,
Why did I know before looking who started this thread?

Woden made me do it!
All the best!

 

[taxslave]

I have always been of the mind that if you live on a land, you should know what the spirituality that was born out of that land (ie: the native spirituality of whatever tribe occupied the territory you are living in).

How would you apply that to areas like central europe where there must have been 20 different groups over run the area in the last couple of thousand years?
I know for a fact that there are little people on our place that take things to play with and then return them, although not always to the place they found them.

 

[Spade]

I know for a fact that there are little people on our place that take things to play with and then return them, although not always to the place they found them.

Are the little people the hidden ones from Iceland?

 

[FiveParadox]

Even though the original post deals with extending the religious debate to include the old Gods (After all, it is Tiw's day), I feel complelled to reply. May the Great Moderator and the Message Board Creator forgive me!

Today, I heard an argument on why our Governor General should be considered first and foremost as our head of state. Permit me to embellish it!

Our head of state (The GG) has real constitutional powers. These were exercised most recently when she agreed to prorogue Parliament last December; she could have denied that request and the Dion would be prime minister. Can you imagine the uproar across this peaceable "kingdom" if the Queen had been approached and she decided the fate of the minority government.

My response to this is citing s. 9 of the Constitution Act, 1867:

9. The Executive Government and Authority of and over Canada is declared to continue and be vested in the Queen.

As much as republicans wish to muddy the waters by claiming that the Governor General is the head of State, it is quite clearly untrue, as proven simply and irrefutably by the above section of our supreme law. By the Letters Patent Constituting the Office of the Governor General of Canada as issued by His Majesty George VI, the Governor General was authorised and empowered to act in the name of the Sovereign (i.e., as a representative). Deposing Her Majesty The Queen as our head of State would require a constitutional amendment as passed by the Honourable the Senate of Canada and the House of Commons, with supporting resolutions passed by all ten of the Legislative Assemblies of the Provinces.

Yes, we were a colony. Yes, we respect that British heritage. However, like the femur of a whale, the monarchy for Canada is a vestigial appendage the evolution of this country no longer requires.

It is not just British heritage, it is Canadian heritage, and this is a point on which republicans love to — once again — muddy the waters. Questions on the constitutional monarchy, when posed to the public, are very rarely posed in a way that allows poll participants to be properly informed; the questions most often refer to the “Queen of England”, or the “British monarchy”, or the “British Royal Family”. These terms are used to confuse the issue, and to distance Canada from th constitutional monarchy that has served her so well. Our constitutional monarchy is Canadian, Her Majesty is The Queen of Canada, and The Royal Family of Canada is made up of Canadian subjects.

Treat the British royalty with respect and bonhomie, as we should any foreign guests.

They are not foreign guests, they are Canadian.

 

[Spade]

I should have written, "Our de facto head of state, the GG, .."

 

[In Between Man]

If you want to bring back the old gods, you should acknowledge that you are now religious because your part of what's called the New Age Religion.

The "New Age" will be an umbrella for everything from atheism to wicca. Upholding "tolerance", while failing to tell us that they've redefined tolerance to mean validation not just patience.

Yet the New Age Religion will fail to "tolerate" those stubbornly, annoying Christians, because the Christians cannot hold contradictory claims to their beliefs as "valid".

 

[Cliffy]

How would you apply that to areas like central europe where there must have been 20 different groups over run the area in the last couple of thousand years?
I know for a fact that there are little people on our place that take things to play with and then return them, although not always to the place they found them.

Well Europe was in a constant state up upheaval, but basically christian for the better part of the last 2000 years.

In North America, tribal boundaries were fairly stable before the arrival of the Europeans, at least the core areas. Out lying hunting areas may have shifted some but especially in BC, territories were regulated by topography.

 

[Cliffy]

If you want to bring back the old gods, you should acknowledge that you are now religious because your part of what's called the New Age Religion.

The "New Age" will be an umbrella for everything from atheism to wicca. Upholding "tolerance", while failing to tell us that they've redefined tolerance to mean validation not just patience.

Yet the New Age Religion will fail to "tolerate" those stubbornly, annoying Christians, because the Christians cannot hold contradictory claims to their beliefs as "valid".

The New Age is not a religion but a mish mash of old archaic and new religions and philosophies. What some call the new age is undefinable because it has no cohesion, no underlying philosophy or central tenet. Its appeal is that it sets a person free to seek the truth wherever it may be found without the shackles of religious dogma.

Wicca is a bona fide religion although probably very different from the original Celtic origins since the church did a fine job of destroying most of the original texts and records.

And people's intolerance of christianity pales by comparison to christianity's intolerance of anything non-christian.

 

[Spade]

Yet the New Age Religion will fail to "tolerate" those stubbornly, annoying Christians, because the Christians cannot hold contradictory claims to their beliefs as "valid".

That Christians are intolerant is not news, Alley! Although, some they burnt at the stake were rehabilitated posthumously.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/08409c.htm

 

[Spade]

May the Gods preserve me from another Obama thread, pro or CON!

 

[AnnaG]

Even though the original post deals with extending the religious debate to include the old Gods (After all, it is Tiw'sday), I feel complelled to reply. May the Great Moderator and the Message Board Creator forgive me!

Today, I heard an argument on why our Governor General should be considered first and foremost as our head of state. Permit me to embellish it!

Our head of state (The GG) has real constitutional powers. These were exercised most recently when she agreed to prorogue Parliament last December; she could have denied that request and the Dion would be prime minister. Can you imagine the uproar across this peaceable "kingdom" if the Queen had been approached and she decided the fate of the minority government.

Yes, we were a colony. Yes, we respect that British heritage. However, like the femur of a whale, the monarchy for Canada is a vestigial appendage the evolution of this country no longer requires.

Treat the British royalty with respect and bonhomie, as we should any foreign guests.

*blows a razzzberry* lol Real respect is earned, not inherited.

 

[AnnaG]

Well Europe was in a constant state up upheaval, but basically christian for the better part of the last 2000 years.

In North America, tribal boundaries were fairly stable before the arrival of the Europeans, at least the core areas. Out lying hunting areas may have shifted some but especially in BC, territories were regulated by topography.

There was lots of real estate that was shared by clans and nations. Some of the sharing was amicable and some wasn't but no-one really worried about setting markers. It was a fairly mature attitude about land. They simply didn't and don't view land as belonging to anyone in particular and they are right. Anything living only uses the land for a relatively short period of time.
I remember something written by a screenwriter by the name of Ted Perry for a movie about ecology in 1971 that is commonly attributed to another guy by the name of See-ahth who was a chief of Duwarnish and Suqamish nations. Perhaps Perry based his screenwriting on actual words by See-ahth, I don't know, but anyway, here's what he wrote:

How can you buy or sell the sky, the warmth of the land? That idea is strange to us. If we do not own the freshness of the air and the sparkle of the water, how can you buy them? Every part of this earth is sacred to my people. Every shining pine needle, every sandy shore, every mist in the dark woods, every clearing and humming insect is holy in the memory and experience of my people. The sap which courses through the trees carries the memory of the red man. The white man's dead forget the country of their birth when they go to walk among the stars. Our dead never forget this beautiful earth, for it is the mother of the red man. We are part of the earth and it is part of us. The perfumed flowers are our sisters, the deer, the horse, the great eagle, these are our brothers. The rocky crests, the juices in the meadows, the body heat of the pony, and man - all belong to the same family. So, when the Great Chief in Washington sends word that he wishes to buy our land, he asks much of us. The Great Chief sends word he will reserve us a place so that we can live comfortably to ourselves. He will be our father and we will be his children. So we will consider your offer to buy our land. But it will not be easy. For this land is sacred to us. This shining water that moves in the streams and rivers is not just water but the blood of our ancestors. If we sell you land, you must remember that it is sacred, and you must teach your children that it is sacred and that the ghostly reflection in the clear water of the lakes tells us events and memories in the life of my people. The water's murmur is the voice of my father's father. The rivers are our brothers, they quench our thirst. The rivers carry our cannoes, feed our children. If we sell our land, you must learn, and teach your children, that the rivers are our brothers, and yours, and you must henceforth give the rivers the kindness you would give any brother. We know that the white man does not understand our ways. One portion of the land is the same to him as the next, for he is a stranger who comes in the night and takes from the land whatever he needs. The earth is not his brother, but his enemy, and when he has conquered it, he moves on. He leaves his father's grave behind, and he does not care. He kidnaps the earth from his children, and he does not care. His father's grave and his children's birthright are forgotten. He treats his mother, the earth, and his brother, the sky, as things to be bought, plundered, sold like sheep or bright beads. His appetite will devour the earth and leave behind only a desert. I do not know. Our ways are different than yours. The sight of your cities pains the eyes of the red man. But perhaps because the red man is a savage and does not understand. There is no quiet place in the white man's cities. No place to hear the unfurling leaves in spring, or the rustle of an insects wings. But perhaps it is because I am a savage and do not understand. The clatter only seems to insult the ears. And what is there to life if man cannot hear the lonely cry of the whippoorwill or the arguments of the frogs around a pond at night ? I am red man and do not understand. The Indian prefers the soft sound of the wind darting over the face of a pond, and the smell of the wind itself, cleaned by a mid-day rain, or scented by the pinon pine. The air is precious to the red man, for all things share the same breath - the beast, the tree, the man, they all share the same breath. The white man does not seem to notice the air he breaths. Like a man dying for many days is numb to the stench. But if we sell you our land, you must remember that the air is precious to us, that the air shares its spirit with all the life it supports. The wind that gave our grandfather his first breath also receives his last sigh. And if we sell you our land, you must keep it apart and sacred, as a place where even the white man can go to taste the wind that is sweetened by the meadows flowers. So we will consider your offer to buy our land. If we decide to accept, I'll make one condition, the white man must treat the beasts of this land as his brothers. I am a savage and I do not understand any other way. I have seen a thousand rotting buffaloes on the prairie, left by the white man who shot them from a passing train. I am a savage and I do not understand how the smoking iron horse can be more important than the buffalo that we kill only to stay alive. What is man without the beasts ? If all the beasts were gone, man would die from a great loneliness of spirit. For whatever happens to the beasts, soon happens to man. All things are connected. You must teach the children that the ground beneath their feet is the ashes of your grandfathers. So that they will respect the land, tell your children that the earth is rich with the lives of our kin. Teach your children what we have taught our children, that the earth is our mother. Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth. If men spit upon the ground, they spit upon themselves. This we know, the earth does not belong to man, man belongs to the earth. This we know. All things are connected like the blood which unites one family. All things are connected. Whatever befalls the earth, befalls the sons of the earth. Man did not weave the web of life, he is merely a strand in it. Whatever he does to the web, he does to himself. Even the white man, whose God walks and talks with him as friend to friend, cannot be exempt from the common destiny. We may be brothers after all. We shall see. One thing we know, which the white man may discover one day - our God is the same God. You may think you know that you own Him as you wish to own our land, but you cannot. He is the God of man, and His compassion is equal for the red man and the white. This earth is precious to him, and to harm the earth is to heap contempt on its Creator. The whites too shall pass, perhaps sooner than all other tribes. Contaminate your bed, and you will one night suffocate in your own waste. But in your perishing you will shine brightly, fired by the strength of the God who brought you to this land and for some special purpose gave you dominion over this land and over the red man. That destiny is a mystery to us, for we do not understand when the buffalo are all slaughtered, the wild horses are tamed, the secret corners of the forest heavy with the scent of many men, and the view of the ripe hills blotted by talking wires. Where is the thicket ? Gone. Where is the eagle ? Gone. The end of living and beginning of survival.