Convert or Die

MikeT1986

New Member
Dec 24, 2006
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I don't think it's unreasonable at all.

It pretty much follows the Christian religion perfectly.

Yeah sure, they don't bomb people, they just treat everyone else who isn't Christian as a second rate human being. I don't care where you are in any country, if you tell a devote Christian that you are an atheist you will be met with silence and disbelief.

They, for the most part, will believe you have no morales, will believe you are a communist (because the Soviet Union regime banned religion), believe you might 'corrupt the minds' of their children, believe you are unfit to be a parent, or simply believe you are down right evil.

Clark Stevens, co-director of the Campaign to Defend the Constitution, said the game is not peaceful or diplomatic.

Well... for that matter, neither is the United States of America. And neither are Christians. Today we criticise religious intolerance amoungst Muslims. But Christians fail to look at their own history of religious intolerance. Crusade anyone?

The Rev. Tim Simpson, a Jacksonville, Fla., Presbyterian minister and president of the Christian Alliance for Progress, added: "So, under the Christmas tree this year for little Johnny is this allegedly Christian video game teaching Johnny to hate and kill?"

'Little' Johnny shouldn't be playing violent games. What rating has this game received? It's it violent it should have atleast an MA15+ rating (that's Australian ratings BTW, i don't know what the US equivilant would be). It's typical for Christians to complete ignore the fact that ADULTS PLAY VIDEO GAMES TOO.

I say live with it. This is what the Christian religion believes.

Rockstars, the worlds sexiest man, Muslims - are all just 'misguided', or 'unenlightened', or 'poor souls', or whatever the Christians want to call them. Most religions have a superiority complex - it's part of their religion: "We are right. Because the bible says so." or "We are right because the Koran says so."

It's illogic at it's peak. Ideology formed thousands of years ago to explain our own existence, ingrained into the populace over hundreds of years until science began to explain the world around us. It will take a few thousand years to get these ideologies un-ingrained.
I'm ashamed to think that my ancestors were Christians.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/12/12/MNG8TMU1KQ1.DTL

Do the christians here feel that this game is a bit tasteless to say the least? Video games are supposed to be fun and not taken to seriously but is this a wholesome message to be sending out?

Any belief structure and adherents to that belief structure must follow the principles of belief as priscribed by that structure, or else, your an outcast.

But for many, there are built in tolerances as to what they can and cannot do, simply for their own protection.

Most are as like a child who is new to the world of evil people, who must be protected by rules governing their approch to those things which may be harmful to their best interests.

The best judge of that issue you brought up, is you. You decide whether those games are good or harmful to your own kids.

I personally, would allow some games, but with supervision and instructions to them as to the possiblity of being harmful to them.

That is my responsibility as a Father to make those determinations for them.

Peace>>>AJ
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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The article indicates that the game's designers say it is "good" even though it glorifies violence. If Jesus (prince of peace) was here, He would say 'do violence to no one' and the other peaceable things He was known for. Violence is not to be excusable to a Christian under any circumstance according to the New Testament.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Maybe not, Gopher. Read Matthew 10:34-37 lately? Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me.

I can't see any way to spin that into any benign and peaceful meaning.
 

tamarin

House Member
Jun 12, 2006
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A dextrous quote, Dexter! It's been a long time since the Prince of Peace was here. A long, long time. In two thousand years it'll be twice as long. It's time for some promises to be kept. Christianity like most other religions is long in tooth. But at some point too long will be too long.
The game makers are giddily selling into the vacuum created by a faith and faiths that have had too little divine feedback for far too long a time.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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`` a sword ... dextrous quote ``


Evidently, you never read the Bible in full context or studied its symbolism. If you had done so you would know that martial symbology in the New Testament affirms that Jesus was a pacifist and that all of His followers should be the same.

What follows is martial symbology and it corresponding pacifist definition:

loins girt about with truth

breastplate of righteousness

feet shod with gospel of Peace

shield of faith

helmet of salvation


NOW READ THIS VERY CAREFULLY:

THE SWORD OF THE HOLY SPIRIT WHICH IS THE WORD OF GOD.


In other words, contrary to your interpretation being a dextrous quote, you have shown that you have not read the Bible nor that you understand what it truly stands for. That "sword" which you imagine to be a martial weapon is nothing more than the Holy Bible itself! THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE WEAPON THAT JESUS INTENDED TO USE IN ORDER TO CONQUER THE WORLD!


See Ephesians 6.

Peace to you.
 

china

Time Out
Jul 30, 2006
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gopher :
Holy Bible itself! THIS IS THE EXCLUSIVE WEAPON THAT JESUS INTENDED TO USE IN ORDER TO CONQUER THE WORLD!______________________________________________________

Do you think gopher that a book will conquer the world ? So far all it does is seperates people into different camps and was/is a reason for thousands if not millions of killings. Christ promised to send an Advocat (and He did),The Holy Spirit ,not a book.
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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Evidently, you never read the Bible in full context or studied its symbolism. If you had done so you would know that martial symbology in the New Testament affirms that Jesus was a pacifist and that all of His followers should be the same.
Okay, so specifically spin Matthew 10:34-37 that way. Jesus quite unequivocably says he didn't come to send peace, his purpose is to set me against my father and my wife against her mother, and so forth, my enemies will be members of my own household, and if I care more for my parents or my children than I do for him (and I do) then I'm not worthy of him. If anybody said that to my face, I'd call him an arrogant fool with overdeveloped notions of his own importance, and not worthy of me.

I have indeed read the Bible, in several versions, and studied it carefully, and read widely in other people's thoughts about it. And frankly I don't see how it's any different from any of the old Greek and Roman and Egyptian and Babylonian and etc. mythologies. And to demonstrate the point (I cribbed most of this from alt.atheism):

Consider a heroic figure, a true god among men, born of a mortal woman and a divine Father, and his name was Hercules.

Consider the tale of a redeemer, one who came to earth to lift up sinful and ignorant humans, knowing full well he would pay the ultimate price for his actions, but willing to go ahead anyway out of love and compassion, and his name was Prometheus.

Consider the one who defeated death itself and rose from the grave, in a miracle that no other would-be savior has ever been able to duplicate. By dramatically displaying his power over death, he proved once and for all that he was the single true god. And his name was Osiris.

Consider one that millions around the world still worship today. He was conceived miraculously and visited while still an infant by wise men who were guided to him by a star. He lived in a small province whose evil ruler sought to have him killed before he could rise to power, but his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who instructed them to take their child to a neighbouring district, where he would be safe from the slaughter. This miracle child would come to grow up and perform many great deeds, and the timeless and moving story of his life was recounted throughout history and still rings true today. I refer of course to Krishna.

Consider a god who stands alone, unique, head and shoulders above the myths and fables of the false religions. No other saviour ever claimed to duplicate his deeds. No other prophet was anything at all like him. He is the mediator between God and man, he helps departed souls ascend to heaven, and he will judge the human race at the end of the world. He shed the blood of an innocent to wash away the sins of the world and established a sacred meal ritual where flesh and blood were symbolically consumed by initiates. Only one person fits that description. You know this person well - his birthday falls near the end of the year, on December 25. And his name is Mithras.

But that’s all wrong. Our religion is the one true religion. The claims of all others crumble under scrutiny, but ours and ours alone is validated, again and again, by historical fact. It was the first of its kind to make such claims as these; all others are merely impostors which sought to capitalize on its fame. Our saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" No other religion can make such claims! No other saviour proved his divinity again and again to so many! No one can doubt his power or the truth of the message he brought. His memory will live forever. How can he be mistaken for anyone else? Of course, by now there is not a shred of doubt in any of your minds. You know as well as I do to whom I am referring. We must worship him, pay tribute to his memory, and focus on spreading his message of love and compassion; that, after all, is the true meaning of the season. His name of course is Apollonius of Tyana.

Need I go on? The Bible is mythology, that borrows heavily from other mythologies, and I've never seen a convincing case for giving it any special status.
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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If you hold th Bible upside-down and read it in a mirror you get the words to all Kiss's music!
 

MikeyDB

House Member
Jun 9, 2006
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I tried it with the Koran and all I got was something about John Denver and Rocky Mountain High...

You have to be verrrrrrry wary of these subliminal hidden upside down and backward messages embedded in "holy" books.
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Try it with the Book of Mormon. You'll get every Country&\Western song ever written, but backwards: your wife comes back to you, you live happily ever after, your dog is reborn, your truck runs great, Smokey never bothers you...
 

Dexter Sinister

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Oct 1, 2004
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I live in Regina, about a 5 hour drive from Prince Albert in good weather, and I'll be passing through Prince Albert next June on my way to Missinippe to catch a plane to a fly-in fishing camp for four days. And the weather here right now is fine, for this time of year. Which means it isn't really very nice, it's cold and there's a lot of snow on the ground, but the roads are clear and it's safe to head out onto the highway. That's about the best we can expect around here at this time of year.
 

Just the Facts

House Member
Oct 15, 2004
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But Christians fail to look at their own history of religious intolerance. Crusade anyone?

You do realize that the crusades, as grotesquely out of control as they did become, were in fact a response to Islamic Jihad in the Holy Land, right? Right?

I just had to pipe up about that, because so often I see the crusades being referenced as an example of moral equivalency with other violent religions. Yes, the crusaders got out of hand, the did horrible things to a lot of innocent people. But the origin of their existance wasn't the pope saying, "hey, lets put together an army and go and kill anyone who's not a Christian". It was a defensive response to an aggression against Christians.

Sorry for the sidebar. Carry on. :happy11:
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
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Okay, so specifically spin Matthew 10:34-37 that way. Jesus quite unequivocably says he didn't come to send peace, his purpose is to set me against my father and my wife against her mother, and so forth, my enemies will be members of my own household, and if I care more for my parents or my children than I do for him (and I do) then I'm not worthy of him. If anybody said that to my face, I'd call him an arrogant fool with overdeveloped notions of his own importance, and not worthy of me.

I have indeed read the Bible, in several versions, and studied it carefully, and read widely in other people's thoughts about it. And frankly I don't see how it's any different from any of the old Greek and Roman and Egyptian and Babylonian and etc. mythologies. And to demonstrate the point (I cribbed most of this from alt.atheism):

Consider a heroic figure, a true god among men, born of a mortal woman and a divine Father, and his name was Hercules.

Consider the tale of a redeemer, one who came to earth to lift up sinful and ignorant humans, knowing full well he would pay the ultimate price for his actions, but willing to go ahead anyway out of love and compassion, and his name was Prometheus.

Consider the one who defeated death itself and rose from the grave, in a miracle that no other would-be savior has ever been able to duplicate. By dramatically displaying his power over death, he proved once and for all that he was the single true god. And his name was Osiris.

Consider one that millions around the world still worship today. He was conceived miraculously and visited while still an infant by wise men who were guided to him by a star. He lived in a small province whose evil ruler sought to have him killed before he could rise to power, but his parents were warned by a heavenly messenger who instructed them to take their child to a neighbouring district, where he would be safe from the slaughter. This miracle child would come to grow up and perform many great deeds, and the timeless and moving story of his life was recounted throughout history and still rings true today. I refer of course to Krishna.

Consider a god who stands alone, unique, head and shoulders above the myths and fables of the false religions. No other saviour ever claimed to duplicate his deeds. No other prophet was anything at all like him. He is the mediator between God and man, he helps departed souls ascend to heaven, and he will judge the human race at the end of the world. He shed the blood of an innocent to wash away the sins of the world and established a sacred meal ritual where flesh and blood were symbolically consumed by initiates. Only one person fits that description. You know this person well - his birthday falls near the end of the year, on December 25. And his name is Mithras.

But that’s all wrong. Our religion is the one true religion. The claims of all others crumble under scrutiny, but ours and ours alone is validated, again and again, by historical fact. It was the first of its kind to make such claims as these; all others are merely impostors which sought to capitalize on its fame. Our saviour cannot be mistaken for any other. He performed countless miracles on earth, miracles well attested to by bystanders. He healed the sick and the crippled, restored sight to the blind, cast out demons, even raised the dead! His birth was of a virgin, foretold by an angel. While still a child, he exhibited extraordinary knowledge of religious scripture. He reformed the corrupt and worldly religions of his day. He was crucified, rose from the tomb and appeared to his disciples to prove to them his power over death, after which he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. He was known as "the Son of God!" No other religion can make such claims! No other saviour proved his divinity again and again to so many! No one can doubt his power or the truth of the message he brought. His memory will live forever. How can he be mistaken for anyone else? Of course, by now there is not a shred of doubt in any of your minds. You know as well as I do to whom I am referring. We must worship him, pay tribute to his memory, and focus on spreading his message of love and compassion; that, after all, is the true meaning of the season. His name of course is Apollonius of Tyana.

Need I go on? The Bible is mythology, that borrows heavily from other mythologies, and I've never seen a convincing case for giving it any special status.

Dexter, I’ve looked at many of those mythology figures and found them also to be similar to that of the Bibles main theme. That of a: God/Savior.

One thing that does not meet all that criteria is just exactly, who is the real god of all of them?

Makinds attempts to recognize “the” God of all creation could only envision it with what ever means (Knowledge) were available at that time.

If you look at the American Indians for example, they knew of a spirit that was superior to them and nature. But, they didn’t know who or what it was.

So, they defined their spirit god, by whatever means they could relate to it.

Examples: the bear, the buffalo, the tree the eagle and many other objects of association.

Similarly, all your Greek mythologies endeavored to do the same thing.

But the real God of Creation is revealed to us by the Prophets, the writings and by one man who claimed to put it all together as the Son of God.

Now as to the coded messages in the bible, well they are there for our seeking.

If you are really interested in the real God of Creation, there is where you will find who He really is, but if not, then, your next best bet is by what means are available outside the bible.

This is the choice we all have, and so be it to whatever choices people want to make.

I had to address that issue so as to give your post a counter point.

Peace>>>AJ
 

Dexter Sinister

Unspecified Specialist
Oct 1, 2004
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Regina, SK
The number of people who believe something to be true has nothing to do with whether it's true or not. Specifically, the fact that all cultures invent a religion speaks to something deeply true about human nature, but it doesn't mean there's any substance to the beliefs. The only real difference between your beliefs and mine is that I believe in one less god than you do. There's no better evidence for your version of god than there is for any of those others--actually I've seen no good evidence for any of them--and any credible argument you can make in support of it would apply equally well to any of those others with only minor modifications.

Frankly I have no interest in the "real God of Creation" except as an artifact of human imagination. I'm pretty much convinced, after years of examining the question, that there's no such thing, and it'd take a pretty dramatic demonstration to change my mind now. Like a really big finger coming out of the sky at me and a booming voice intoning "You're wrong."
 

MikeT1986

New Member
Dec 24, 2006
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You do realize that the crusades, as grotesquely out of control as they did become, were in fact a response to Islamic Jihad in the Holy Land, right? Right?

You mean the Holy Lands which Christians attacked and occupied to gain control from Islam? Or some other Holy Lands?

You cannot tell me that every Christianity inspired attack on another race or religion was purely motivated by self-defence or liberation.

Not only that, but in the past, Christians have attacked other Christians for a difference in beliefs based on different interpretations of the bible.

You might find such stories in Christian writings.

But at the end of the day, the victor writes the history.
 

look3467

Council Member
Dec 13, 2006
1,952
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38
Northern California
The number of people who believe something to be true has nothing to do with whether it's true or not. Specifically, the fact that all cultures invent a religion speaks to something deeply true about human nature, but it doesn't mean there's any substance to the beliefs. The only real difference between your beliefs and mine is that I believe in one less god than you do. There's no better evidence for your version of god than there is for any of those others--actually I've seen no good evidence for any of them--and any credible argument you can make in support of it would apply equally well to any of those others with only minor modifications.

Frankly I have no interest in the "real God of Creation" except as an artifact of human imagination. I'm pretty much convinced, after years of examining the question, that there's no such thing, and it'd take a pretty dramatic demonstration to change my mind now. Like a really big finger coming out of the sky at me and a booming voice intoning "You're wrong."

Your right! Well, anyways Dexter, to each his own.
By the way, I have tasted of the real God's presence, and only He could make a difference to knowing Him.

Peace>>>AJ