First Nations Treaties

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Canada has been going round and round with this "treaty" bullsh*t for over 300 years and it never seems to end. Is it time to say enough is enough? Scrap the whole "treaty" crap, close the "reservations", make those with status cards a monatary offer (10 or 20 grand each) and they can either sink or swim like the ROC.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Canada has been going round and round with this "treaty" bullsh*t for over 300 years and it never seems to end.
You should see it from this side dude!

Is it time to say enough is enough?
I asked my Grandfather something a kin to that, years ago. Well actually I asked him why we didn't just slaughter the lot of ya, as you poured over the sides of the ships. He just told me that we would have missed out on so much.

Scrap the whole "treaty" crap, close the "reservations", make those with status cards a monatary offer (10 or 20 grand each) and they can either sink or swim like the ROC.
Perhaps you could just throw a couple life preservers, then we could at least tread water while you swim.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Is it "morally ethical" to continue to "baby" First Nations people?
There's a monumental difference between ethically upholding contractual obligations and the social engineering that has also taken place in the last 30 years. The two should not confused or lumped together.

Insulate them on reserves from the ROC?
Don't you mean segregate? I mean this whole idea was great when you guys were raping our land for resources and all.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
I have, through my Mother, Grandmother, and Great Grandmothers eyes.
And yer still bitchin'?

The ROC have thrown enough life preservers over the last 300 years.
No, most of those were big round rocks, just painted to look like life preservers.

Try again. You're confusing social agendas from the last 30 years, with actual contracts.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
There's a monumental difference between ethically upholding contractual obligations and the social engineering that has also taken place in the last 30 years. The two should not confused or lumped together.

Don't you mean segregate? I mean this whole idea was great when you guys were raping our land for resources and all.


We have paid enough for these "contractual" obligations. The only ones that are making money on any of this at this point in time are the Lawyers from both sides and the "chiefs" and their "yes men".

Enough is enough, we have more than paid our "obligation" for the land.

As for "raping your land"..... the indians have been more than lucky that the English and French that first came to this continent didn't just wipe out the few savages that were here and take what they wanted. They were more than generous in what was offered and what has been paid.
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
And yer still bitchin'?

The 3 of them had nothing good to say about indians.


No, most of those were big round rocks, just painted to look like life preservers.

Try again. You're confusing social agendas from the last 30 years, with actual contracts.

No, just because your people called them rocks doesn't mean they were. I'm not confusing anything, I'm looking at this bottomless pit and saying we need to stop throwing money into it.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
We have paid enough for these "contractual" obligations. The only ones that are making money on any of this at this point in time are the Lawyers from both sides and the "chiefs" and their "yes men".
Sure, they're making more then their fair share, but the rest are just scraping by.

Do you actually know what the average 'Injun' actually gets in the way of subsidies from the MIA?

$4500/year.

Enough is enough, we have more than paid our "obligation" for the land.
Not by the wording in the contracts...;-)

As for "raping your land"..... the indians have been more than lucky that the English and French that first came to this continent didn't just wipe out the few savages that were here and take what they wanted. They were more than generous in what was offered and what has been paid.


You do realise that the treaties were written because you couldn't defeat us right?
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
The 3 of them had nothing good to say about indians.
I'm beginning to smell some jealousy. Just like that half breed Gfed...;-)...:lol:

No, just because your people called them rocks doesn't mean they were.
Ya, being segregated onto useless land you couldn't grow a rock farm on was for our benefit. :roll:

I'm not confusing anything, I'm looking at this bottomless pit and saying we need to stop throwing money into it.
I would otherwise agree, on some levels. But when it comes to legitimate land claims, contractual obligations and righting wrongs...suck it up buttercup...;-)
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
Teaties, wheaties; contracts, schmontracts. What do you think we are? Honourable?
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
Sure, they're making more then their fair share, but the rest are just scraping by.

Do you actually know what the average 'Injun' actually gets in the way of subsidies from the MIA?

$4500/year.

and free housing( which they turn into dumps within a few years of them being built).... and no taxes ( and how much that amounts to is VERY evident by how cheap cigs can be purchased from status indians).... and and and...........
Not by the wording in the contracts...;-)

Should we look at the wordng of the "contracts"? and I don't mean the updated, "let's make it pertinant to today" wording. The wording that says treaty 7 natives will get a few bags of seed a year, shovels, hoes............


You do realise that the treaties were written because you couldn't defeat us right?

Yup...... those bows, spears, and clubs were a real problem.:roll:
 

FiveParadox

Governor General
Dec 20, 2005
5,875
43
48
Vancouver, BC
Re: Aboriginal Treaties

I think that The Crown of Canada absolutely must honour its contractual obligations to our Aboriginal peoples. Whether or not it was Her Majesty’s Government for Canada that signed on to these agreements, or some previous manifestation of the Canadian Crown, we as a nation (as a sovereign institution and as a people) are responsible for ensuring that we honour and uphold those treaties unless, and until, we are able to change them pursuant to the rule of law.

However, that is not to say that those contractual obligations cannot be changed—with the consent of both parties, of course. Given that modern Canada has the resources to support both our Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal populations, it seems to make sense to me that we should create an instrument whereby Aboriginal citizens can volunteer to revoke any special status that they hold (perhaps, as suggested above, for one-time monetary compensation).

We could also lobby The Honourable Chuck Strahl P.C., M.P. (Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon), the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, to launch an immediate renegotiation of existing treaties to promote one-time compensation in lieu of treaty rights. It would most probably take us decades to conclude such renegotiations, but the end-result would be a single tier of citizenship and rights, and ultimately the re-absorption of reserves. Let us be quite clear, though, that any changes or revocations of these treaties must be done with the support and agreement of the Aboriginal peoples whom they cover—The Crown absolutely must honour its commitments.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
and free housing( which they turn into dumps within a few years of them being built).... and no taxes ( and how much that amounts to is VERY evident by how cheap cigs can be purchased from status indians).... and and and...........
And your point?

A deal is a deal. Deal with it.

BTW: How you set for smokes, I have a box of Podium Blue King size left...;-)...need any hand guns? Alcohol? I got about a dozen 60 pounders of Vodka and Rum, brand names to boot...:lol:


Should we look at the wordng of the "contracts"? and I don't mean the updated, "let's make it pertinant to today" wording. The wording that says treaty 7 natives will get a few bags of seed a year, shovels, hoes............

Ya, but then there's the fact that health, welbeing and care, were worded in. That puts modernization in the mix, hence the redressing of the contracts.


Yup...... those bows, spears, and clubs were a real problem.:roll:
You forgot death mauls. And numbers, then you have ferocity too.

Seamen were pressed into service. Warrior look forward to dying in battle. Guaranteed spot at the Council Fire in the hereafter...;-)
 

gerryh

Time Out
Nov 21, 2004
25,756
295
83
I think that The Crown of Canada absolutely must honour its contractual obligations to our Aboriginal peoples. Whether or not it was Her Majesty’s Government for Canada that signed on to these agreements, or some previous manifestation of the Canadian Crown, we as a nation (as a sovereign institution and as a people) are responsible for ensuring that we honour and uphold those treaties unless, and until, we are able to change them pursuant to the rule of law.

However, that is not to say that those contractual obligations cannot be changed—with the consent of both parties, of course. Given that modern Canada has the resources to support both our Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal populations, it seems to make sense to me that we should create an instrument whereby Aboriginal citizens can volunteer to revoke any special status that they hold (perhaps, as suggested above, for one-time monetary compensation).

We could also lobby The Honourable Chuck Strahl P.C., M.P. (Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon), the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, to launch an immediate renegotiation of existing treaties to promote one-time compensation in lieu of treaty rights. It would most probably take us decades to conclude such renegotiations, but the end-result would be a single tier of citizenship and rights, and ultimately the re-absorption of reserves. Let us be quite clear, though, that any changes or revocations of these treaties must be done with the support and agreement of the Aboriginal peoples whom they cover—The Crown absolutely must honour its commitments.


I agree with you...to a point..... the "decades" thing I say BS to. It's been centuries already. We make the offer, if they can't agree, then we impose the offer. If our exising laws won't support it, then we change the laws to allow it and use the "not withstanding clause" to push it through.
 

CDNBear

Custom Troll
Sep 24, 2006
43,839
207
63
Ontario
And you didn't get the best land? Has it ever occurred to you defeat wasn't the intent?
Yep.

Compromise never has worked well for GWM, eh?
It hasn't worked well for us 'Injuns'. But I'm not sure how it affected gay white males?

I think that The Crown of Canada absolutely must honour its contractual obligations to our Aboriginal peoples. Whether or not it was Her Majesty’s Government for Canada that signed on to these agreements, or some previous manifestation of the Canadian Crown, we as a nation (as a sovereign institution and as a people) are responsible for ensuring that we honour and uphold those treaties unless, and until, we are able to change them pursuant to the rule of law.

However, that is not to say that those contractual obligations cannot be changed—with the consent of both parties, of course. Given that modern Canada has the resources to support both our Aboriginal and non-Aboriginal populations, it seems to make sense to me that we should create an instrument whereby Aboriginal citizens can volunteer to revoke any special status that they hold (perhaps, as suggested above, for one-time monetary compensation).

We could also lobby The Honourable Chuck Strahl P.C., M.P. (Chilliwack—Fraser Canyon), the Minister of Indian Affairs and Northern Development and the Federal Interlocutor for Métis and Non-Status Indians, to launch an immediate renegotiation of existing treaties to promote one-time compensation in lieu of treaty rights. It would most probably take us decades to conclude such renegotiations, but the end-result would be a single tier of citizenship and rights, and ultimately the re-absorption of reserves. Let us be quite clear, though, that any changes or revocations of these treaties must be done with the support and agreement of the Aboriginal peoples whom they cover—The Crown absolutely must honour its commitments.
Nicely said Paradox. A pipe dream, but I like how you dream.