Zimbabwe...no end to the power struggle!

[typingrandomstuff]

Action. Restriction. Balance. Ohm.

 

[dancing-loon]

Thanks, data, for your posts and the link to your forum.

I find the situation is becoming ridiculous. Mugabe and his ZANU party lost the election! Ab mit ihm! But no, they still dance around him and cater to him. This Mbeki guy from SA needs to take off his kid gloves and talk business like he means it.

But you know what? It is none of our business, let the Blacks figure it out among themselves. Eventually they learn and stand up for themselves. I wonder, though, if the long years of slavery have broken their free spirit.

 

[data]

This Mbeki guy from SA needs to take off his kid gloves and talk business like he means it.

What Mbeki means is soft hand for the new ruling class in South Africa (ANC billionairs) as well as in Zimbabwe (ZANU billionairs). He is doing that very fine. Only the public (most not billionairs) could disturb him - people, like we.

Look, how an US trained rocked scientist thinks:

​

Most important is now, the little MDC(M) declares, what really happened, if Professor Arthur Mutambara should still be considered as their leader and what say should have elected members (MP) in the faction. But answering a polite and concerned email, even if from exile with:
"stop all communication with me please. why can't you find better things to do with your live. foolish looser"
is rather a sign, that he is just a trivial and ordinary bully (and US NASA academic) as a politician, who could represent the will of part of MDC.

He stepped in politics with a hint, how his father fell victim to Mugabe during Gukurahundi. Now he should ask himself about, what his father would think about him, selfish trading with the same ZANU and their boss Mugabe. He denies to have signed anything (plot), but who should believe him any more?

And to typingrandomstuff:

Most of the debaters are using emotions to argue.

Even dry stock exchange is dominantly run by emotions. Center of business decisions is the belly, no longer the brain. You must be a newbee in politics, if you don't understand the signs.
Question: Is the following a senseless, a minor or a meaningful contribution for political progress?

15th August 2008 Nine WOZA women arrested in Bulawayo
NINE WOMEN, were arrested in Bulawayo on Wednesday night. They are being charged with ‘malicious damage to property’, a charge, which they are denying. Zimbabwe Lawyers for Human Rights are representing the women and hope they will appear in court on Saturday August 16.

Four of the younger members were seen ‘road-writing’ the WOZA ‘love’ slogan and the ‘Woza Moya’ (come healing wind) on a road in Mabutweni suburb of Bulawayo under cover of darkness. They were arrested and detained first at Western Commonage station before being transferred to the dirty police cells at Bulawayo Central. Police officers then threatened them and forced one to point out the homes of other leaders. A further five including two 75 year olds, were taken from their homes and detained. It is unclear why they are facing the same charges or why they were arrested.

WOZA wish to make it clear that the arrest of our members is a further violation of the Memorandum of understanding signed by Zanu PF, and the 2 MDC parties as part of the SADC led Dialogue. It is further proof that Zanu PF may have called for an end to violence in word but no in deed. It is also our view that unless there is an audit and transformation of the police and army, there can be no healing and restoration of human rights in Zimbabwe. We will continue with our grafitti road writing our messages until the politicians hear us loud and clear.

WOZA leaders will march with South Africa labour and civic society on Saturday 16 August 2008 to deliver demands to SADC leaders. Once such demand is articulated in our slogan - Woza Moya which is written on many roads in Zimbabwe by WOZA members. (South African contact details +27 78 371 5665 or +27 79 188 1560 (15th – 19th August).
For further information, please contact Jenni Williams on email wozazimbabwe@yahoo.com or info@wozazimbabwe.org
P.S. Please feel free to donate paint to assist us in this messaging.

 

[dancing-loon]

What Mbeki means is soft hand for the new ruling class in South Africa (ANC billionairs) as well as in Zimbabwe (ZANU billionairs). He is doing that very fine. Only the public (most not billionairs) could disturb him - people, like we.

Look, how an US trained rocket scientist thinks:

​

Most important is now the little MDC(M) declares, what really happened, if Professor Arthur Mutambara should still be considered as their leader and what say should have elected members (MP) in the faction. But answering a polite and concerned email, even if from exile with:
"stop all communication with me please. why can't you find better things to do with your live. foolish looser"
is rather a sign, that he is just a trivial and ordinary bully (and US NASA academic) as a politician, who could represent the will of part of MDC.

He stepped in politics with a hint, how his father fell victim to Mugabe during Gukurahundi. Now he should ask himself about, what his father would think about him, selfish trading with the same ZANU and their boss Mugabe. He denies to have signed anything (plot), but who should believe him any more?

Hi, data;
I just had an idea!!:lol: Could it be that Dr. Mutambara has stepped into this conflict to actually aid the MDC by deflecting the focus away from Morgan Tsvangirai for the time being and later, when he has gathered some power from the Zanu people, he could unite with Morgan. Then Mugabe would have to face a much stronger opposition.

If only such a plan would and could work!

And to typingrandomstuff: Even dry stock exchange is dominantly run by emotions. Center of business decisions is the belly, no longer the brain. You must be a newbee in politics, if you don't understand the signs.

:lol: I know you are good, data, but didn't expect you to be that good!;-);-)
Have a nice evening!

 

[data]

AGO, perhaps symbol for the whole MDC(M)
​

I just had an idea!!:lol: Could it be that Dr. Mutambara has stepped into this conflict to actually aid the MDC by deflecting the focus away from Morgan Tsvangirai for the time being and later, when he has gathered some power from the Zanu people, he could unite with Morgan. Then Mugabe would have to face a much stronger opposition.
If only such a plan would and could work!

Innocent fairy tale.
Morgan Tswangirai is far below the elite levels of Prof Mutambara. MT let even photograph himself being beaten up and looking like a vagabond, when he came from court, what stated, they have no case, by what he could get prosecuted with. He did not even care. He sticks to the interests of the people, who voted and died for him, like any honest trade unionist.
Mutambara tried, but nobody voted for him. 7 of his 10 MP even threatened to leave him alone, if he snubs MT (probably just to save their own ass, knowing what is matter). Mutambara can talk like Obama, according what ever audience he has. But that doesn't qualify anyone for politics - besides as stage figure for secret mafia politics.
Even in developed countries (G7) voters must still learn that(by continued practising).

movado: Pangori Na Trudy nemurume wake ane camera namai vatrudy on the table , Mutambara nemukadzi wake nevashandi vavo vebasa in povo
The meeting was confusing, they are MDC right, and they are campaigning for Makoni ZANU-Mavambo, lol
I have never seen such confused professors

ponderi: The Mtambara faction costs us dearly in the March elections.

http://newzim.proboards86.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=153361&page=1#2585190

 

[dancing-loon]

Innocent fairy tale??? It's the best I could come up with!:lol:

MT looks plain and einfaeltig enough, no wonder the people voted for him... he is one of them. The main thing is he is good to the people; for the smart political maneuvres he can always hire the right men to advise him.

Voters must learn? Easier said than done, data. Besides, if the choices are limited from bad to badder to baddest
(;-)}, there isn't much the voter can do, except abstain or spoil the ballot.

It looks like Zimbabwe is going to be stuck with Mugabe for a while yet.

 

[data]

Didn’t you notice, that I compared rocket scientist AGO Mutambara with social worker and later lawyer Obama?

Voters must learn? Easier said than done, data. Besides, if the choices are limited from bad to worse to most bad (;-)}

There are always choices, if only people resort to upright walk, what indicates to be human, even if just for a moment.

there isn't much the voter can do, except abstain or spoil the ballot.

Voters, who abstain strengthen, what others decide for them. In GDR it was duty to vote. Now many feel freed to stay away from ballot without any punishment and feel of no guilt, what came out in elections. What a brainwash.
To spoil the ballot is a protest vote, resulting in high numbers of votes cast invalid. In Germany those invalid votes reduce the tax payers share, what parties get for their participation in elections. If these number raises, you start wondering, why nobody manages to fill these obvious gap in the political market.

In the Zimbabwe re-elections president Tswangirai opened such gap by withdrawing due to state sponsored violence, torture and murder against his voters.
Such thing I can not see in Canada or in Bavaria. In Bavaria tries a new party to participate, but I notice trouble to let them speak for their own. Giving up would mean withdrawing from upright walk. There is no fascist regime like Zimbabwe and the whole political live in Germany is waiting for the junction (28.9.), whether The Left will get just 4,99% or manages to enter the Munich parliament with 5,01%. In Bavaria itself the ruling party CSU just fears for its traditional absolute majority of > 50%.
http://forum.spiegel.de/showthread.php?t=4835&page=8

Zimbabwe Security Chiefs now running the country (From Right) - Police Chief - Augustine Chihuri, Army Chief - Constantine Chiwenga, Air Force chief - Perence Shiri and Prisons Chief Zimondi

The Zanu (PF) emissaries are urging the MDC MPs to dump leader Morgan Tsvangirai, who they assert is pursuing selfish interests by refusing to sign a power-sharing deal with Zanu (PF).
The MPs who have been approached have been promised hefty perks, including farms, Mercedes Benz vehicles, official housing, executive medical packages, schooling for children and forex-denominated salaries.
Official reports suggest that Robert Mugabe, in pursuant to the deal that he signed with Arthur Mutambara, is set to constitute Cabinet next week.
He is desperate to have Cabinet comprising officials from the three parties to the talks, even though Tsvangirai is not part of the coalition government.
This would obviously lend credence to Mugabe’s propaganda refrain that he has established a truly representative Coalition Cabinet. The idea was to leave Tsvangirai in the wilderness.

http://www.zimdaily.com/news/junta27.6279.html

​

Morgan at the summit, while Mbeki says, agreement still reachable, before summit ends

Doesn't his right eye still look, how it was beaten in shape by special forces in the police cell?
Background: Bank president Gono has to bring for each meeting of the ZANU politburo a suitcase full of fresh printed bank notes. The political head of state regularly decides, for what it shall be used. Torturers stopped even beating up detained people and excused them self to their victims: It's just business, nothing personally or political. We also must feed our families and we will not work without proper payment. The hyperinflation lowered the value of their handouts to fast.

Robert Mugabe was asked, if he condones police brutality against opposition leaders. His answer was: They have the right to bash them, if opposits don't behave.

In the case of MT it was attempted murder. Pictures were more than one week world news. He was very lucky, that his skull was not broken. The camera man got later accused of selling national secrets abroad, got abducted on March 30, 2007, tortured to death and dumped on a dust road 80 km west of his home township Glen View (Harare).
http://www.thewip.net/contributors/2007/05/zimbabwean_journalists_had_not.html
​

 

[typingrandomstuff]

Fairy Tales and Storybooks

Innocent fairy tale??? It's the best I could come up with!:lol:

MT looks plain and einfaeltig enough, no wonder the people voted for him... he is one of them. The main thing is he is good to the people; for the smart political maneuvres he can always hire the right men to advise him.

Voters must learn? Easier said than done, data. Besides, if the choices are limited from bad to badder to baddest
(;-)}, there isn't much the voter can do, except abstain or spoil the ballot.

It looks like Zimbabwe is going to be stuck with Mugabe for a while yet.

Again: Using emotional manipulation to argue.

 

[typingrandomstuff]

I wonder what happens next? Let me put it this way: "Different people has a different interpretation of the 'better' world".

For example: a lot of people thinks saving the world is evil. Well, those people has a different opinion of this world. If a person does not choose the commoner's view of good, it is not the end of the world. The important thing is: to live a better life and bring better lifestyles to people who want your definition of a "better life".

Dancing Loon is having trouble. I hope you will forgive Dancing Loon.

 

[data]

Dancing Loon is having trouble. I hope you will forgive Dancing Loon.

At least she is not just throwing some kind of oracle in (spanners?), what your appearance seems to be. The theme here is "Zimbabwe...no end to the power struggle!"
Back to ongoing talks in view of the summit. Good read here:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/17/world/africa/17zimbabwe.html

Asked Saturday what he would say to Mr. Mugabe if he was sitting next to him, Mr. Tsvangirai patted the couch in his hotel room and said: “I’ll say, ‘Old man, you’re out of touch. You’re out of place. Look around you. Who of your age is around?’"

Candidate for The Hague: Black Jesus Perence Shiri
http://www.hararetribune.com/index.php?news=299

Kirsty Coventry poses after the women's 200m backstroke swimming final medal ceremony at the National Aquatics Center during the 2008 Beijing Olympic Games in Beijing on August 16, 2008.

[FONT=arial,helvetica,sans-serif]Coventry’s performances in the pool have been a steady source of good news for Zimbabwe. She won a gold, a silver and a bronze at the Athens Olympics in 2004. She has increased her career Olympic medal count to seven with her gold in the 200 backstroke and silver medals in the 100 backstroke and the 200 and 400 individual medleys.[/FONT]

http://www.hararetribune.com/index.php?news=304
​

​

 

[dancing-loon]

Alright, time for the truth!!!

I, dancing-loon, has no foggy idea about Zimbabwe... just what I force myself to read and pretend to be important to me. I couldn't care less... almost.

My real reason to keep this thread going is to keep my friend data interested to come here... all the way from Germany! He is a seasoned poster with political knowledge far exceeding mine.

Random Stuff, thanks for pleading with data to be gentle with me!!:lol:

So, please, both of you, forgive.me.... I'm just a little loon!;-):lol:

It is almost lunchtime and I'm still not assembled!!:roll::roll:

C U L8er!:smile:

 

[typingrandomstuff]

Oh boy. I never expect Dancing Loon to be a big star. "oracle in (spanners?)"... I'm the oracle? Oh no. Not again. I'm no oracle. I don't follow a style. I don't create a style.

 

[data]

I'm the oracle?

Not you, but your text. I just don't get the connection with the Zimbabe theme, if there should be any. May be, you could enlighten us?

In the meantime the dug hunt is going on in Zimbabwe (dancing-loon be cautious ;-)). Everyone speculates something and asks around for confirmation. The new chair of SADC Mbeki even called for convening the elected parliament, but was not prepared to do it by himself. It's part of the power question and that remains open between Mugabe and Tswangirai.
The grass root advice for MT is to sit and see, what happens. Up to now he did a very good job to represent his voters will.

“The SADC organ did not give a cut off date,” says Mbeki. –Sapa, August 17, 2008, 21:30
http://www.sabcnews.com/africa/southern_africa/0,2172,175319,00.html

News about the NASA rocket scientist Arthur Mutambara came as cartoon:

​

 

[typingrandomstuff]

No relation to the Zimbabwe theme. I only want to sort out the emotional rampage of this thread. I never was in the discussion. I was only browsing and reading for fun. I guess Data assumes too much. If I am the funny and long head girl, I will get data into trouble.

 

[typingrandomstuff]

A lot of people thinks saving the world is evil. This can be fitted to the guys who like bad people in Zimbabwe. Well, those people has a different opinion of this world.

If a person does not choose the commoner's view of good, it is not the end of the world.
Bad guys in Zimbabwe exist, however the rest of the world exist.

The important thing is: to live a better life and bring better lifestyles to people who want your definition of a "better life".

Everyone has a different definition of a "better life". For the Zimbabwe criminals, "better life" is to become the most famous and rich criminal. For the Zimbabwe police, a "better world" is without criminals. If people in Zimbabwe live a better life, the people are well.

Charities are often confused who to help in Zimbabwe. Well, the charities has different interests. If the people of the charities can find a common interest with the people of Zimbabwe, the people of Zimbabwe can live better. For example, Human AIDs group helps Zimbabwe people with AIDs. The human AIDs group improves human AID group's lifestyle and Zimbabwe people's lifestyle.

No banners. No oracles. No tone. No theme. Plain words of leisures and random tips for people.

 

[typingrandomstuff]

Next time, please directly ask the question. That way, the asker wouldn't be like a coward.

 

[data]

Next time, please directly ask the question. That way, the asker wouldn't be like a coward.

This is not a religious thread. It's not enough to exchange "world" from your gospel with the word "Zimbabwe" to fit in this theme. Read something about it, talk with Zimbabweans in Canada, ask others about or find something in libraries - what ever, make up your mind and then come back and join. If you are interested, there is also a religious forum from Zimbabwe, where you can find among hundreds of different churches perhaps also yours.
http://newzim.proboards86.com/index.cgi?board=religion

For better understanding of the right guy on the cartoon: MDC-M president Mutambara got also a conehead, linking him to the famous conehead family: http://www.blockbuster.com/browse/catalog/movieDetails/6944
The left guy is former 28 year long and wannabe eternal president Mugabe of Zimbabwe with his Hitler moustache.

Back to Zimbabwe, Tsvangirai started from Tshwane to Gaborone for talks with president Khama and continues 10 days through other SADC countries to ask about views and support for his position.

 

[dancing-loon]

In the meantime the duck hunt is going on in Zimbabwe (dancing-loon be cautious ;-))

Oh? Should I run for cover, or go undercover??:lol:
Sorry, I have been such a lame duck lately... was engaged in another thread or two. My daily brain capacity is rather limited.:smile:

Everyone speculates something and asks around for confirmation. The new chair of SADC Mbeki even called for convening the elected parliament, but was not prepared to do it by himself. It's part of the power question and that remains open between Mugabe and Tswangirai.
The grass root advice for MT is to sit and see, what happens. Up to now he did a very good job to represent his voters will.

I'm glad to hear that! Perhaps he does possess a bit of political skill.

Why does it say "newly" elected Mbeki, when I recall he was already in office a few months ago? Or is this SADC a new organisation?

“The SADC organ did not give a cut off date,” says Mbeki. –Sapa, August 17, 2008, 21:30

http://www.sabcnews.com/africa/southern_africa/0,2172,175319,00.html​

That is probably a good idea. No use rushing such difficult decisions. Agreements might not hold for long.

News about the NASA rocket scientist Arthur Mutambara came as a cartoon:

Why? Is he gay? That's not nice to make fun of him for that.

So, are you holding one ear to the ground and keep us posted?:lol:

 

[dancing-loon]

Back to Zimbabwe, Tsvangirai started from Tshwane to Gaborone for talks with president Khama and continues 10 days through other SADC countries to ask about views and support for his position.

I see! Consulting the other leaders is certainly a good thing. I remember several of them can't stand Mugabe either.

 

[dancing-loon]

Here are more details about Morgan Tsvangirai's tour:

Zimbabwe: Tsvangirai Looks Past Mbeki to End Logjam

MDC leader Morgan Tsvangirai yesterday headed off on a 10-day tour to consult regional leaders in an apparent bid to bring greater pressure to bear on President Robert Mugabe, and the SADC-mandated mediator, President Thabo Mbeki.
......
Tellingly, Tsvangirai's first port of call is Botswana, whose President Ian Khama has emerged as a staunch critic of Mugabe's ploys to stay in power. Khama was a notable stayaway from the SADC summit. However, not only Botswana, but several other southern African governments have registered growing dissatisfaction with Mugabe and the wider effects of his misrule on the region.

MDC sources said Tsvangirai hoped to channel this growing unease with the Zimbabwean impasse into pressure on Mugabe and Mbeki.
.......
"Unless Tsvangirai signs on the dotted line the crisis continues, not only simply because the billions of foreign aid does not become available, but also because he does represent a significant majority of the Zimbabwean population," said Adam Habib, a political analyst at the University of Johannesburg.

Full article here: http://allafrica.com/stories/200808190001.html
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Do I understand it right... the foreign aid becomes only available when a deal has been struck and ratified? That's quite the pressure!