Would you die for your country?
- Thread starter Haggis McBagpipe
- Start date
We're talking about a card that contains biometric data (fingerprints, DNA profile, retinal scan) that can be asked for by any cop, employer, government office, etc.
Not quite the same as a DL, especially here in Canada where a Social Insurance Number cannot be obtained from driver's license and you do not have to produce a SIN for anything but tax reasons.
This is basically a way of keeping track of the population and you would be required to produce it if asked. Under the present laws I do not have to produce identification unless there is a valid reason (i.e. you need license to drive). If a cop comes up to me on the street and requests i.d., I do not have to present it.
It is one of those things being pushed as a way to placate the American government. I don't want to placate the American government or the Taiwanese government or the Canadian government.
Not quite the same as a DL, especially here in Canada where a Social Insurance Number cannot be obtained from driver's license and you do not have to produce a SIN for anything but tax reasons.
This is basically a way of keeping track of the population and you would be required to produce it if asked. Under the present laws I do not have to produce identification unless there is a valid reason (i.e. you need license to drive). If a cop comes up to me on the street and requests i.d., I do not have to present it.
It is one of those things being pushed as a way to placate the American government. I don't want to placate the American government or the Taiwanese government or the Canadian government.
Well, the US govt hasn't reached that point yet, thankfully.
But from what I understand, alot of the EU is headed in that direction.
But from what I understand, alot of the EU is headed in that direction.
Would I fight for my country? Gee whiz, I dunno. To fight a war means to kill if necessary--and that brings it to a whole different level.
Besides which, what IS country? Why, it's only been since Junior came on stage that I turned CANADIAN!! Before that, I was just Canadian.
Would I be putting my life on the line for a principle? If so, what principle(s)? Can't think of a principle I'd kill over. Would I defend my country over religion let's say? Never.
Would I kill or be killed? Don't really know. Like to think I could defend myself, but I've not yet seen anything in me that would suggest that I could shoot a possum or a lowly rat. So I don't know as the killing fields are for the likes of this person of faint heart.
And yet, if the question is would I kill to save my kids? An unqualified and resounding YES! That's my job--I'm a mom.
Could I kill to save your youngsters. I sure as hell would hope so. But honesty dictates that I can't say for absolute certain. Again, if I should sacrifice your kids for my own life, then YOU should shoot ME!
Could I kill to save you? Oh, dear, we're getting on shaky ground now--sorry to say. I'd have to think about this one--a lot!
Would I fight for my country if it meant going to a place outside of Canada to engage in battle? No! I'd desert first to whatever country would have me.
I loathe war--for myself and for everyone else. Notwithstanding what anyone says, wars are not really about principles, they are about power and pursuit of world markets, resources and money, money, money.
Proponents of war invariably try to dress up the cause to make it more palatable--but bottom line--when you weed through the tangled mess of deceit--those who do the actual fighting are pawns.
You know, the very question sends shivers up my spine which is why I mourn all the injustices being heaped upon millions if not billions around the world.
One thing is certain, I could never send people off to die and then expect to ever again get a good night's rest. Never! A bleeding heart? You bet, and if it's all the same to the war mongerers, I want more of "me" and less of "you."
Besides which, what IS country? Why, it's only been since Junior came on stage that I turned CANADIAN!! Before that, I was just Canadian.
Would I be putting my life on the line for a principle? If so, what principle(s)? Can't think of a principle I'd kill over. Would I defend my country over religion let's say? Never.
Would I kill or be killed? Don't really know. Like to think I could defend myself, but I've not yet seen anything in me that would suggest that I could shoot a possum or a lowly rat. So I don't know as the killing fields are for the likes of this person of faint heart.
And yet, if the question is would I kill to save my kids? An unqualified and resounding YES! That's my job--I'm a mom.
Could I kill to save your youngsters. I sure as hell would hope so. But honesty dictates that I can't say for absolute certain. Again, if I should sacrifice your kids for my own life, then YOU should shoot ME!
Could I kill to save you? Oh, dear, we're getting on shaky ground now--sorry to say. I'd have to think about this one--a lot!
Would I fight for my country if it meant going to a place outside of Canada to engage in battle? No! I'd desert first to whatever country would have me.
I loathe war--for myself and for everyone else. Notwithstanding what anyone says, wars are not really about principles, they are about power and pursuit of world markets, resources and money, money, money.
Proponents of war invariably try to dress up the cause to make it more palatable--but bottom line--when you weed through the tangled mess of deceit--those who do the actual fighting are pawns.
You know, the very question sends shivers up my spine which is why I mourn all the injustices being heaped upon millions if not billions around the world.
One thing is certain, I could never send people off to die and then expect to ever again get a good night's rest. Never! A bleeding heart? You bet, and if it's all the same to the war mongerers, I want more of "me" and less of "you."
Humph. Quite simply, if I believed in what the cause was, I would be more inclined to fight (I wouldn't be 100% sure). If I did have to join the army these days, I'd head for some non-combat position; I hate guns, killing, etc, etc. Hopefully I won't have to.
I believe some interventions of war are justified when nothing else works. What would the world be like now if no one had intervened in World War11. The family from kosvo that lives in my neighbourhood would not be here or probally anywhere else for that matter if someone had not come to help them. I don't think for myself anyway that I can know what I would really do and feel. I would like to think I would stand up and be willing to sacrifice for my country. But I have never had to have that conviction tested.
I remember once being in a small corner grocery store. There were quite a few people in the store. A young man in the lineup was wearing a leather jacket and carrying a helmet. On the arm of his jacket he had a patch that declared he was a sober rider. A different sort of biker appeared in the store. The scary kind, big and fat, unshaven and unkept, when he walked by the boy with the patch on his jacket, he stopped and told him to rip that patch off right now. It was very surreal, and the boy tried to explain how it met nothing and it was just a group of like minded friends that rode motorcycles. The scary biker was having none of it, he told him to rip it off or else. Everyone in the store including my were frozen in fear. I wanted to tell the bad biker to bugger off and leave the boy alone, but I couldn't I was to scared, as was everyone else in the store. The boy ripped his patch off, it was the most horrible humiliating scene I think I ever witnessed. I felt so awful for the boy and awful for myself. I think everyone except the boy and the biker left that store ashamed of themselves. So I think its easy to say what your convictions are until you are put to the test.
I remember once being in a small corner grocery store. There were quite a few people in the store. A young man in the lineup was wearing a leather jacket and carrying a helmet. On the arm of his jacket he had a patch that declared he was a sober rider. A different sort of biker appeared in the store. The scary kind, big and fat, unshaven and unkept, when he walked by the boy with the patch on his jacket, he stopped and told him to rip that patch off right now. It was very surreal, and the boy tried to explain how it met nothing and it was just a group of like minded friends that rode motorcycles. The scary biker was having none of it, he told him to rip it off or else. Everyone in the store including my were frozen in fear. I wanted to tell the bad biker to bugger off and leave the boy alone, but I couldn't I was to scared, as was everyone else in the store. The boy ripped his patch off, it was the most horrible humiliating scene I think I ever witnessed. I felt so awful for the boy and awful for myself. I think everyone except the boy and the biker left that store ashamed of themselves. So I think its easy to say what your convictions are until you are put to the test.
Well said, peapod, well said.
There are times that morality requires us to give more than just words to injustice.
No one likes it, no one wants it.
It is true that innocents suffer in times of war-- and the minute that happens, war, like all wars, become immoral, in a sense.
That doesn't mean that some wars aren't 'just' wars.
WW2, for example was fought for the benefit of all mankind. That Canada, for example, entered the war early on, is a testament to her morality. Canadians paid a high price-- and earned the respect of peoples who yearn freedom the world over.
There are times that morality requires us to give more than just words to injustice.
No one likes it, no one wants it.
It is true that innocents suffer in times of war-- and the minute that happens, war, like all wars, become immoral, in a sense.
That doesn't mean that some wars aren't 'just' wars.
WW2, for example was fought for the benefit of all mankind. That Canada, for example, entered the war early on, is a testament to her morality. Canadians paid a high price-- and earned the respect of peoples who yearn freedom the world over.
The phrase "the greatest generation" has been around at least as long as I have. I don't know who coined it, but I doubt it was Brokaw or Jennings. It has come into more common usage since Brokaw's book though.
I don't think World War Two should be described as a just war. Canada's involvement in it was certainly just, as was the involvement of every country that stood up against the Nazis. The war itself was started for unjust reasons and based on unjust actions though. That we were not allied with the perpetrators of those actions does not make the war just.
I don't think World War Two should be described as a just war. Canada's involvement in it was certainly just, as was the involvement of every country that stood up against the Nazis. The war itself was started for unjust reasons and based on unjust actions though. That we were not allied with the perpetrators of those actions does not make the war just.
Marc said:
Exact, same thing here
I'm ready to sacrifice MY life, for my Nation. But only, if my Nation is invaded. I would never support, a foreign invasion, or premptive strike of any kind.
Hey!
I don't know about dying for my country.
But, if America decides to invade Canada for our water, I'll
fight against the injustice.
So, I'd fight whoever decided to take what was mine.
And, if your bigger than me, don't turn your back.
Calm
On that we disagree.
If I thought my home, family, loved ones were in danger, I could not wait for that to happen. Id have to react.
If I thought my home, family, loved ones were in danger, I could not wait for that to happen. Id have to react.
Most of us who grew up during the Cold War are kind of used to the idea of missiles being pointed at us. We've lived with it all of our lives and are because of a series of leaders in the US and USSR who worked to ensure there were treaties. Those treaties came about under a doctrine of Mutually Assured Destruction...a balance of powers.
That balance has been severely upset because George Bush has backed out of treaties and is developing new WMD.
Should the world community pre-emptively strike George Bush's United States? I don't think so...pre-emptive strikes are wrong. I do think that massive political pressure, including trade sanctions, should be brought to bear on the US until George agrees to behave or the American people remove him from power.
Well, thered have to be a real justification fro striking the US-- or suffer the consequences.
And democracies dont go to war against each other.
How would you implement trade sanctions? On what grounds? Who would enforce them?
And democracies dont go to war against each other.
How would you implement trade sanctions? On what grounds? Who would enforce them?