Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Liberals

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

More fearmongering eh?

Alright then blue, several links have been posted in other threads that suggest that the fear is real and warranted.

Now's your opportunity to post refutations of the scary hidden agenda. Now's your chance to show us what the CPC really wants to do with the country.

Oh, and don't bother throwing this link up there, I've already seen it and dismissed it as a pack of lies.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Some of what Harper said is several years old, and like another post I made here, by the same reasons you don't want Harper, old quotes by older Liberals should equate to not voting for them either.

I read those quotes, Blue. Only one was from Martin. The others were from Trudeau (he's dead) and Chretien (retired).

Oh, and don't bother throwing this link up there, I've already seen it and dismissed it as a pack of lies.

The first thing you notice when you go to that site is the advertisements for, from left to right, Microsoft Internet Explorer; Macromedia Flash; and Adobe Acrobat. The ads are bigger than the link into the rest of he site. The message I get from that is that the Conservatives are up for sale.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Reverend Blair said:
The first thing you notice when you go to that site is the advertisements for, from left to right, Microsoft Internet Explorer; Macromedia Flash; and Adobe Acrobat. The ads are bigger than the link into the rest of he site. The message I get from that is that the Conservatives are up for sale.

:D:D:D :laughing3: :D:D:D
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

jimmy123 said:
John Tory, the new leader of the Progressive Conservative Party in Ontario, seems like the type of guy who would fit this bill. He is from Corporate Canada, but he is a moderate politically, is very personable, and has, to date, presented himself well in the short time he's been Ontario PC leader.

I agree. It will take someone from Ontario to get the job, and Tory could be it.
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Reverend Blair said:
The first thing you notice when you go to that site is the advertisements for, from left to right, Microsoft Internet Explorer; Macromedia Flash; and Adobe Acrobat. The ads are bigger than the link into the rest of he site. The message I get from that is that the Conservatives are up for sale.

They aren't adds, they are tools needed to view the site.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

The more I listen to Harper, the LESS likely I am to vote Conservative. So I did open my mind, but it's not having the effect you might want, blueAlberta.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

They aren't adds, they are tools needed to view the site.

The way they are presented they look like ads, Jay. It's a typical Conservative screw-up.

The more I listen to Harper, the LESS likely I am to vote Conservative. So I did open my mind, but it's not having the effect you might want, blueAlberta.

That's been a consistent trend with a lot of voters, TenPenny.
 

Colin

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
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RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Other then the overt look of an advertisement how do you justify calling the site full of lies. It is statements made by Harper and his people. I dont think it paints a true picture, but in poltics as everything in life the truth is not what the liberals say, about themselve or other parties, nor is it what the conservatives say about themselves or other parties. To straight and ignore the source of conservative news as much propaganda as it may or maynot have is pure ignorance. It would be akin to ignoring the liberals website as it by this logic must be full of lies as well.

PS: I would not be disheartened to see Tory lead the party. Though most of the major news broadcasts in Canada are either owned by the government(CBC, Globe and Mail) or have liberal leaning, which makes it difficult to get a real picture.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Other then the overt look of an advertisement how do you justify calling the site full of lies.

Ummm....
It is statements made by Harper and his people.

That's it.

It would be akin to ignoring the liberals website as it by this logic must be full of lies as well

Now you are starting to get it. Stick around, and you'll learn even more.

The only websites, and by extension platforms and policies, that are honest are the NDP and other third parties (not the Bloc so much though...they have a different agenda) because they are still in a position to draw votes through honesty rather than deception. Believe me, that can change in a hurry if they smell blood.

The thing with the NDP and other third parties is that, if we can get proportional representation before they increase their vote share too much, it will remain in their interests to be honest.
 

Colin

New Member
Jun 20, 2005
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RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I think you missed my point, let me boil it down. Basically the conservative page lies, the liberal page lies, media lies a little less. So the truth must therefor be in between, so to ignore a source of one side to the picture your view of the truth will be lopsided.

To say a little more I have learned somethings already on these forums. I just think to dismiss something that will obviously be full of propaganda to avoid said propaganda your limiting yourself. Instead glean what you can from the site, article, or source, weeding out the propaganda you are left with the useful crumbs of information.
 

The Philosopher

Nominee Member
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

LeftCoast said:
If Stephen Harpo had been Prime Minister for the last 4 years:

1. Canadian Troops would be deployed right now in Iraq fighting George Bush's stupid war or Islam.

Kind of. The "coalition of the willing" didn't actually fight in the war. The coalition sent troops after the war to maintain the peace in the nation.

2. Canada would have never reatified the Kyoto Protocol, rather right wing nut jobs from Alberta who continue to deny the fact of global warming (and that the earth is older than 6000 years) would be formulating Canada's climate change policies.

Global warming is not what Kyoto Protocal and David Suzuki think it is. The old idea was that pollution created global warming. Then a bunch of scientists had a new line of thought, hrm... how do we explain the ice age and the heating of the earth at that time?

Global warming is a natural process and has been going on for the last 6,000 years. What the Conservatives set instead of the Kyoto Accord is emissions reductions as a part of "Millennium Goals."

3. We would now be spending billions of dollars to assist the Americans in deployment of their Balistic Missile Defense system. Considering that the last big attack on the continent of North America was carried out with box cutters and flight manuals this seems at best a waste and at worst a destabilizing escallation in the militarization of space.

NORAD Missile Defence is a land based missile program. The program is based on the PATRIOT missile which was designed to knock nuclear weapons out of the sky, but is currently used to knock SCUD missiles out of the sky... they work.

Secondly, the Americans offered to pay ALL of the expenses of this defence program.

4. Stephen Harpo would have passed a civil union act to deny gays the right to marry but allow civil unions (an area of provincial jurisdiction BTW). This new law would be unconstitutional and would be sure to be struck down by the Supreme Court - putting Harpo and the CPC on the path to passing an equivalent to the current bill C-38 definition of marriage act.

What the hell are you talking about? MARRIAGE is provincial jurisdiction. The big controversy now is that gays get married in New Brunswick and when they head to Alberta they're suddenly not married. Marriage is provincial, just like civil unions. The Federal Government has NEVER had any obligation to EVER pass any legislation on ANY kind of gay marriage legislation, that has ALWAYS been in the hands of the provinces. Now 9/10 provinces have legislated it and 1/3 territories has legislated it. Harper would have had in no way to legislate marriage into federal politics.

And another thing, even if Federal Government legislated gay marriage, because it IS provincial jurisdiction Alberta only has to perform gay marriages, they do not have to recognize them.




The reason why most people hate Conservatives is because of a lot of hate literatures and demonizing. The second-man in the new Conservative Party is a Blue Tory, the front runner is a Reformer. IF the religious right was ruling this party there would be no civil unions. If the Reformers truly took over the party they would be vouching for Albertan separation (they haven't even mentioned the word "separation" unless it was in regard to the Bloc).

The thing I hate most about Canadians today is that they hate the Conservatives because they are bigots and they only choose the Liberals because they're not Conservatives. I mean they could have gone to the NDP if they really cared. But they would rather have a government that secretly steals from them every day than any kind of responsible different government.
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
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the-brights.net
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

Colin said:
Instead glean what you can from the site, article, or source, weeding out the propaganda you are left with the useful crumbs of information.

As I said, I've dismissed it as a pack of lies...things that people say just to get other people to vote for them...and yes the Liberals are just as bad, but then I'll never vote for them either...

The two big bads in this country have become inept and unviable...we must look to a new vision...one of good governance and social responsibility...the Libs are too wishy-washy, and the Cons are too focused on the economics, which their not very good at, by the way, to give a rat's ass about anybody...

The NDP though, has been the voice of reason these past months, and have actually been the only party willing to make this government work, doing the job that we pay them to do...

Unless the NDP does something extremely stupid between now and election time, they'll have my vote, and a great many others as well...I think it's time they had the chance to shine...
 

Vanni Fucci

Senate Member
Dec 26, 2004
5,239
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8th Circle, 7th Bolgia
the-brights.net
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

The Philosopher said:
Global warming is not what Kyoto Protocal and David Suzuki think it is. The old idea was that pollution created global warming. Then a bunch of scientists had a new line of thought, hrm... how do we explain the ice age and the heating of the earth at that time?

Global warming is a natural process and has been going on for the last 6,000 years. What the Conservatives set instead of the Kyoto Accord is emissions reductions as a part of "Millennium Goals."

Oh nice...another creationist trying to teach everyone about science?
 

The Philosopher

Nominee Member
RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I'm not a creationist, I'm an atheist. I could have chosen any number but I chose 6,000 years. Global warming has been going on forever, the ice caps have been melting for a long time... nothing new is changing here.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

I like the comments about the "second in command"...a guy who made a commitment to NOT merge his party with the Alliance, and then instantly turned around and did just that.

Honour? Not there.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
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Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

TenPenny said:
I expect that most Canadians are sort of middle of the road. Years ago, the PC party was PROGRESSIVE CONSERVATIVE, which was more of a centrist party with some conservative leanings.

This party was a viable option to the Liberal party, not too far off the center.

However, with the (sell out/takeover/merger/death - you pick) of that party, it is now the CONSERVATIVE party, and is much more of a right wing party. This does not appeal to the majority of Canadians, no matter how much the National Post tries to make it so.

And therefore, without a viable option for a centrist type party, Canadians put up with the Liberals.

(I had great hopes for Belinda Stronach, but alas, the extreme right wing members of the (ex-Progressive) Conservative party did not want her.)

No they don't put up with the liberals. Some of them get really fed up with the ultra-ultra left wing liberals that they head down south to the US. The policies of the liberals in Canada are even further left than the Green Party here in the US.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
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Re: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

Kind of. The "coalition of the willing" didn't actually fight in the war. The coalition sent troops after the war to maintain the peace in the nation.
Global warming is not what Kyoto Protocal and David Suzuki think it is. The old idea was that pollution created global warming.

'kay...So I read this shit and went ballisitic. Then I went and talked to Alice. She's the best pool player on earth and has some cool tats too. She's about the calmest person I know. I watched her lose $600 on a miscue one night, and all she did was give a grin and offer to buy the winner a beer.

Alice just read this shit and went ballistic too. Her exact words? What the ****is wrong with these **********bastards? How many ******* planets do these ***** think we have? Show me this guy and I'll put my **** over his head and **** some sense into him.

My guess, Phil, is that you should stay away from bars with pool tables. I'm not exactly sure what she meant by, I'll put my **** over his head and **** some sense into him," but I am pretty sure you'd suffocate.
 

TenPenny

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 9, 2004
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RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about Libe

You seriously expect me to believe that the Green Party in the US is less left than the Liberals?

Considering that the Liberals here are more conservative than the Democrats in the US, that must make the Green Party pretty right wing.
 

Nascar_James

Council Member
Jun 6, 2005
1,640
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36
Oklahoma, USA
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

TenPenny said:
You seriously expect me to believe that the Green Party in the US is less left than the Liberals?

Considering that the Liberals here are more conservative than the Democrats in the US, that must make the Green Party pretty right wing.

You have no clue as to what you are talking about. Where did you get this info. from? The Democrats in the US are considered to be way more conservative than the Liberals in Canada. They support the death penalty don't they?

The Democrats in the US are equivalent to the Conservatives in Canada. There is no Canadian equivalent (too bad) in Canada for the Republicans. They are the only real party for folks on the right.
 

The Philosopher

Nominee Member
Re: RE: Why you hate the Conservatives and what is it about

TenPenny said:
I like the comments about the "second in command"...a guy who made a commitment to NOT merge his party with the Alliance, and then instantly turned around and did just that.

Honour? Not there.

Peter MacKay has not changed any of his stances on any issues. I believe the pledge you are talking about was to David Orchard. Basically what happened was MacKay signed a petition before he was leader stating he would not merge the two parties. This was before he was leader. That was one year after the time the Canadian Alliance before the actual merger happened. Anyone remember when the Canadian Alliance formed? The PCs set a standard that would have to exist in any merged party before the two would merge.

When Peter MacKay was elected he ceased on the polls. The Canadian Alliance was down horribly and the PCs were up. Using this he took this time to draft a proposal for a coalition. The coalition was basically that no theological or moral concerns would be placed in their standards, only economic ones. With that they formed a coalition. Stronach didn't think this was good enough though. So she got the two parties together to form a formal party.

Orchard came forward with a law suit about an agreement Peter MacKay made before he was leader of the PCs during this time period. At this time it all came out, Orchard was the traitor. Most of the PCs, including Joe Clarke, came out and said Orchard was attempting to hyjack the PC party and transform it into another socialist liberal party. Joe Clark's most famous comment about David Orchard is that he is a "tourist in the Tory party."

Peter MacKay is a good man. I had the opportunity to meet him at a St. FX lecture and he is on the ball.