Isn't everything more expensive in Nova Scotia or is just higher taxes? Either way, that's stupid. Ontrio workers should be paying their own vig. :lol:
Why is there no "consumer" free trade?
- Thread starter dumpthemonarchy
- Start date
Isn't everything more expensive in Nova Scotia or is just higher taxes? Either way, that's stupid. Ontrio workers should be paying their own vig. :lol:
I moved to Calgary from Amherst Nova Scotia between one and two years ago and the higher cost of real-estate and the higher wages does effect retail prices somewhat. The cost of living is clearly more expensive in the west.
No doubt it is higher. It's probably easier to get a hospital bed than a place to live.
I was there during the first boom in the 70-80's. I was young, knew little about economics, but remember the bust. Scary ****.
Said1, its really annoying if you don't read a post and just quote bits out of context. If you dont' want to have a serious discussion, don't.
But your making me sound like a damn communist by editing out things I say, THEN SAYING THE SAME THING and acting like I oppose the Idea.
I specifically say how im all for relocating to lower labour cost areas, then you don't include that tidbit and post this "Why are plants obligated to stay in one town when they can relocate and make more money?"
And how many times do I have to say they aren't?
Fair competition, if someone is willing to do the same job for less than you, I don't think you should get to say "You HAVE to hire me for more money, you are not allowed to hire someone for lower wages"
Flip side. If someone is selling the same product as you for 40% less, you should not have the right (in fact I believe its in the competition act) to say " You HAVE to buy from me for more money, you are not allowed to buy from someone else with lower prices"
And that concept really seems to bug you.
But your making me sound like a damn communist by editing out things I say, THEN SAYING THE SAME THING and acting like I oppose the Idea.
I specifically say how im all for relocating to lower labour cost areas, then you don't include that tidbit and post this "Why are plants obligated to stay in one town when they can relocate and make more money?"
And how many times do I have to say they aren't?
Fair competition, if someone is willing to do the same job for less than you, I don't think you should get to say "You HAVE to hire me for more money, you are not allowed to hire someone for lower wages"
Flip side. If someone is selling the same product as you for 40% less, you should not have the right (in fact I believe its in the competition act) to say " You HAVE to buy from me for more money, you are not allowed to buy from someone else with lower prices"
And that concept really seems to bug you.
Protectionism is alive and well unfortunately. Farmers, auto workers and others do get special treatment. It's just one of those realities. I find it sad that good ideas like "free trade" are limited by such protectionism but political realities are present that pressure politicians to enact such rules. Farming for example is seen as a heritage activitiy, something that we have always engaged in and felt prid about and we want to continue and that are afraid will not be viable if allowed to run it's natural course. A country like Canada not only has to protect it's economy but the health and wealfare of it's citizens and the continuing availability of food (growing and harvesting in Canada is the surest way to do this). We could probably buy food cheaper from foreign sources and third world nations would love it if we would prop up their economies in this way but the fear food shortages and loss of control of food make it, at least politically, necessary to have such protectionist measures.
It's more than simply an ideological exercise or a philosophical connundrum when I challenge the whole notion of "voting" and electoral process. As someone else in this thread has remarked why is it that economic summits never entertain input from the greater proportion of "consumers" in North American societies? Why is it that governments are allowed (by citizens) to create trade agreements that aren't binding if some segment of the economic sector doesn't like it...(isn't satisfied with the money they're making) like softwood lumber or large agri-businesses while the consumer hostage is treated like dirt? Why do Canadians tolerate scammers like Paul Martin who re-flagged CSL ships to allow him to avoid corporate taxes and hire off-shore crews? Why do Canadians put up with Stephen Harper cutting deals with a corrupt government like Columbia? Why do Canadians appear to have very little "say" in how or why or if our young men and women should be sent off to die in Afghanistan when our government won't do what's needed to the source of money and arms feeding the terrorists and radicals in Afghanistan?
Your "vote" doesn't mean a damn thing.
The reason why governments are corrupt is because the weave of the fabric of government is determined not by interest and responsibility to the people of Canada or America, but is the instrument of greed by which several families and a very few of the stinking wealthy manipulate societies.
I can't believe how ignorant and voluntarily "tunnel-visioned" people are when they watch what's going on in our precious "free" "democracies"....
Allowing Matel and Fisher Price and a handful of corporate monsters to contract manufacturing and supply of baubles and trinkets cheaper in China... that are then found to be dangerous to our children is what thousands of Canadians and Americans died for in two World Wars?
Being amused at the collapse of real estate markets because the banks and lending institutions vie for enormous profits by lending to un-qualified potential home-owners, who will be buying homes built by corporations willing to disembowel the lumber industry, over-tax municipal water treatment and electricity resources...in the name of making a very few incredibly wealthy at the expense of many many more...?
This is the freedom that our children are fighting for in Afghanistan?
When I read through these threads it's like one event one phenomenon isn't conntected or related to any other....
A society that knows that the great empires of the world were corrupt and failed from within...that knows that injustices and unfairness are built-in to law and legal systems to protect the wealthy....that accepts a failing democracy and a greed driven government thinks that "voting" is the mechanism of "freedom"...?
If you believe this nonesense you're fooling yourself and worse, you're perpetuating the destruction of your children's future.
Yeah this all seems worth fighting and dying for ......NOT!
Your "vote" doesn't mean a damn thing.
The reason why governments are corrupt is because the weave of the fabric of government is determined not by interest and responsibility to the people of Canada or America, but is the instrument of greed by which several families and a very few of the stinking wealthy manipulate societies.
I can't believe how ignorant and voluntarily "tunnel-visioned" people are when they watch what's going on in our precious "free" "democracies"....
Allowing Matel and Fisher Price and a handful of corporate monsters to contract manufacturing and supply of baubles and trinkets cheaper in China... that are then found to be dangerous to our children is what thousands of Canadians and Americans died for in two World Wars?
Being amused at the collapse of real estate markets because the banks and lending institutions vie for enormous profits by lending to un-qualified potential home-owners, who will be buying homes built by corporations willing to disembowel the lumber industry, over-tax municipal water treatment and electricity resources...in the name of making a very few incredibly wealthy at the expense of many many more...?
This is the freedom that our children are fighting for in Afghanistan?
When I read through these threads it's like one event one phenomenon isn't conntected or related to any other....
A society that knows that the great empires of the world were corrupt and failed from within...that knows that injustices and unfairness are built-in to law and legal systems to protect the wealthy....that accepts a failing democracy and a greed driven government thinks that "voting" is the mechanism of "freedom"...?
If you believe this nonesense you're fooling yourself and worse, you're perpetuating the destruction of your children's future.
Yeah this all seems worth fighting and dying for ......NOT!
There is enough here for at least 5 or 6 very interesting threads, you might think about taking this (these) rant(s) to other threads.
Several times you mentioned that a few vastly wealthy individuals or corporations benefit from our society. I will not argue that those raised in wealthy families have a very substantial lead economically, and in most cases in terms of education and influence. I do however disagree that those of us not so lucky cannot succeed and make our lives what we will and live happy fulfilling lives. Democracy and capitalism make it possible for Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, JK Rawling, Oprah Whinfrey and all the others to excell. The time of Kings and Emperors and all of the long-term dynasties is over and has been replaced by individual success. Sports, music, entertainment, academia, family life can all offer fulfillment, the decision for each of us to make is to find out what we want.
Free trade means free trade, all the border towns and factories need is a few years notice on the new arrangements. Cdns drive across the border to get cheaper gas, and feel no guilt, so let's do it for other products and services.
Beneficial for whom. The only ones who are benefitting from Free Trade are the corporations. Untold numbers of manufacturing corporations first closed their operations in Canada before the ink was dry of the FTA. An example of that was Gillette who was owned by Carter Pen Company. Almost the day the deal was signed they closed their manufacturing operations in Canada, and said that it was not because of the FTA that they were closing. I beleive they have since also closed their operations in the U.S.A. and moved to teh third world, where they can maintain the same pricing structures, but pay next to nothing for the labour to manufacture the products.
Most of our textile industry is now gone, as well as countless other products that were once manufactured in Canada. I went looking for a new pair of sneakers on Thursday evening, and looked in every store in the large shopping centre including Sears, and regradless of Brand, all I could find was stickers indicating Made in China, so I came home without making any purchase. The sad thing is that Sears had the same model of Rawling's sneakers as WalMart, and difference was at WalMart the price was about $25.00 cheaper.:angryfire:
The sad part is that we are left with low paying service jobs, and let's not forget the call-centre industry, but even those jobs are quickly disappearing to India. Our own Air Canada, IBM, Dell Computers, have all moved a significant portion of their customer service tech. jobs to India. When the corporations are through, they will be lucky to find many who can even afford to buy what they are selling. Let's also not forget that numerous toy and other commodities that have been recalled due to being dangerous, and when have 90%+ been manufactured? You guessed it China, so now I first look at the label and if it is made in Chana, it stays on the shelf.
Toro
Perhaps but do McJobs offer the same long-term stability and opportunity for a secure tomorrow for people's children? What's the truth behind statistics like unemployment? Isn't the person working on minimum wage while still technically "employed" suffering a great deal? Without even rasing the issues of the elderly the disabled and the chronically poor, is that "gap" between the wealthy and the poor really an indication that employment for everyone translates to a rising tide that raises all ships...?
Bamboozled by stats and lied to by governments and big business....it's all OK just so long as you're employed........
Perhaps but do McJobs offer the same long-term stability and opportunity for a secure tomorrow for people's children? What's the truth behind statistics like unemployment? Isn't the person working on minimum wage while still technically "employed" suffering a great deal? Without even rasing the issues of the elderly the disabled and the chronically poor, is that "gap" between the wealthy and the poor really an indication that employment for everyone translates to a rising tide that raises all ships...?
Bamboozled by stats and lied to by governments and big business....it's all OK just so long as you're employed........
Why is it people say McJobs are always the result of free trade? Is Ontario now a poor province? Weren't there many McJobs prior to free trade?
By buying gas in the US with reckless abandon, and with many Cdns believing that "free trade" in 1988 meant free trade for consumers, it is clear most Cdns think it is a good idea.
I wouldn't mind seeing a survey done by a company like Angus Reid asking Canadians the folowing question:
"Upon returning from a vacation outside Canada, should the federal government
eliminate all tariffs and duties imposed on goods brought into the country?"
I think the response would be YES, and with a clear majority.
By buying gas in the US with reckless abandon, and with many Cdns believing that "free trade" in 1988 meant free trade for consumers, it is clear most Cdns think it is a good idea.
I wouldn't mind seeing a survey done by a company like Angus Reid asking Canadians the folowing question:
"Upon returning from a vacation outside Canada, should the federal government
eliminate all tariffs and duties imposed on goods brought into the country?"
I think the response would be YES, and with a clear majority.
Considering the many valid points each of you has made maybe now you might take a second look at the proposed North American Union. This too will only result in a merger of monetary units, miliotary services, legal systems and educational systems. It will never benefit the working person either. Every time a new trade proposal is put on the table it is time for the residents of the nations which are proposed to be a party to that agreement to be entitled to review a full and unabridged copy of that agreement before any discussions are initiated. Now OPEC is discussing only wanting Euros as the unit of payment. If this does take place all the North American nations could be affected monetarily. The one concern I have is why are the foreign investors buying up so much Canadian, US and Balkan properties? Montenegro, Croatia and Kosovo are real estate targets right now for the Russian, Polish and Central Europe investors. Right now the US is a busy place with the European tourists drawn here by the bargains they can find at many retail outlets for almost half of what it would cost them in their nation of residence.
Some sure are paranoid when it comes to freer movement of people. Capital moves very freely these days, why not people?
Canada and Korea are currently in the process of signing a free trade agreement and the free movement of people between the countries is not even on the agenda. Same for the ongoing Korea-EU free trade talks. Still lots of prejudice out there against open systems and people.
The movement of people and capital does not mean the integration of nations. Join the US? Forget it.
Canada and Korea are currently in the process of signing a free trade agreement and the free movement of people between the countries is not even on the agenda. Same for the ongoing Korea-EU free trade talks. Still lots of prejudice out there against open systems and people.
The movement of people and capital does not mean the integration of nations. Join the US? Forget it.
I'd rather think you're being bamboozled by a comfortable political narrative rather than any empirical data.
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2007/11/manufacturing-p.html
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2007/09/manufacturing-i.html
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2007/08/not-dutch-disea.html
http://worthwhile.typepad.com/worthwhile_canadian_initi/2007/07/manufacturing-o.html
Your own links kinda prove his point.
Talk about more workers, but not about median wage.
Average wage is going up, but thats likely due to vast increases on the extremes. Median income (ie, what most people make) is shrinking in real terms. Either lower or stagnant (with inflation ,is lower in real purchasing power)
Talk about more workers, but not about median wage.
Average wage is going up, but thats likely due to vast increases on the extremes. Median income (ie, what most people make) is shrinking in real terms. Either lower or stagnant (with inflation ,is lower in real purchasing power)
The median and the average are two different things.
The median is the middle. That is not the average. If the median is rising, that indicates the population is rising.
Spoken like the average (just had to throw that in.
)person who is ignorant of statistics. There are three types of averages: mean, median, and mode.Little Canadians, always going off on a marxist tangent about how rought it is in Canada for the lowly workers. Pul-lease. Who talks about limiting our "free" personal travel? Or what we can learn on the internet?
Please, protectors, get another job, or create your own thread, at the least.
Please, protectors, get another job, or create your own thread, at the least.