Why is Canada a member of G8?

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

Q: Why did god invent economists?
A: To make weather forecasters look good.

Something I noticed was overlooked...Trudeau, the most left-wing PM we ever had, was in power when we became part of the G-7.

Something else I noticed that was overlooked...It was Mulroney's policies, policies very similar to what the Conservatives/Republicans are so in favour of today, that got us so far into debt in the 1990s.


Funny how that works, eh?

 

[Toro]

Martin, Chretien and the Liberals get full credit for fixing the problem. However, the deficits began under Trudeau, specifically after John Turner left cabinet, and structural spending exploded. Mulroney didn't have the courage nor the conviction to meet the problem head on. But that was because there was no political appetite to do so. When Michael Wilson tried to partially de-index OAS, people went nuts - remember Solange Denis? The Left screamed blue murder about cutting the deficit. People like Maude Barlow, Mel Hurtig, Bob White, et. al. went bananas, saying that it was all a sham, that it was part of "The Corporate Agenda." Now at least we've got much of the Left saying deficits are bad, and give them full credit for doing so. I'd rather the Left argue that deficits are bad than we should ignore them. Some ideologues on the Right are just as bad as those on the Left, particularly the supply-siders and the tax-cutters-at-all-cost like Arthur Laffer and the Club for Growth. Tax cuts causing deficits means either spending cuts or future tax increases in the future. Tax cuts during a recession followed by tax increases during a boom is good policy but not usually followed.

 

[The Philosopher]

My history books tell me that the debt began in WW1

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: Why is Canada a membe

Yes it did. The government sold war bonds. Governments have gone into debt since the dawn of time, but the problems of debt in a modern economy began in the 1970s, not just in Canada, but throughout the developed world.

Q: Why did god invent economists?
A: To make weather forecasters look good.

Here are more economist jokes for you.

 

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Why is Canada a membe

Q: Why did god invent economists?
A: To make weather forecasters look good.

Something I noticed was overlooked...Trudeau, the most left-wing PM we ever had, was in power when we became part of the G-7.

Something else I noticed that was overlooked...It was Mulroney's policies, policies very similar to what the Conservatives/Republicans are so in favour of today, that got us so far into debt in the 1990s.


Funny how that works, eh?

It was also deficit financing introduced by the Liberals way back in the 1960'2 that contributed mightily to our debt. The Libs started the debt.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

Deficit financing is what the economists...not right or left, the economists...were pushing for back then.

It was Mulroney's high interest rate policies, combined with the Conservative penchant for corporate welfare, that pushed our debt up so high.

Mulroney tried to use the debt as an excuse to destroy our social programs. Trying to destroy people's pensions was just part of that, Toro. The attempt was, and still is, despicable and inhuman.

 

[dumpthemonarchy]

Canada's influence declined in the G7 when it became the G8 and Russia joined. Russia is not a democratic nation but because it is included that made politics a greater issue. Politics to the one trick pony US means security. But to other countries security does not trump all other issues all the time.

No longer is the issue the US and Canada excelled at always number one, economics. Now other countries are rising and playing the economic game very well and have other issues that put the North Americans at a loss.

Canada and the US are Gouzenko countries. The Soviet agent who spoke to the Cdn media in 1946 or so and was given the brushoff. Or with the air India bombing in 1986, it took the Cdn security services a week to send any representatives to Ireland to check out this act of terrorism.

 

[Aitrus]

Wow, I can't believe some of this...

The debt skyrocketed after WWII, esp under Trudeau. At the end of Trudeau's reign we became mired in stagflation with no obvious way out. The liberals commissioned a report on the subject, and were told they needed free trade. They shelved it and commissioned another report that said the same goddamn thing.

Who brought free trade finally? Mulroney. Who brought the GST? Mulroney. The liberals have coasted on the fiscal security of that tax since Mulroney paid the political price for it. We're still waiting for the libs to "axe the tax" - i hope nobody was holding their breath on that one. And lets not even get started on liberal promises to get us out of NAFTA or renegotiate NAFTA. Neither has happened.

If anything Mulroney got us out of a very bad situation and the Chretien/Martin liberals have coasted on Mulroney's policies while Mulroney and the conservatives paid the political price for unpopular but necessary moves that the liebrals wouldn't take.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

You should check your numbers Aitrus...Mulroney incurred more debt than anybody else. He did it while gutting our gutting our social programs and giving his buddies huge breaks. He shifted the tax burden onto working Canadians from the wealthy and from corporations.

 

[Jay]

"He shifted the tax burden onto working Canadians from the wealthy and from corporations."

Do you mean the GST?

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

Not just the GST, but that was a large part of it.

 

[Jay]

I thought that the GST replaced a hidden tax.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

It replaced a tax on corporations and shifted it to us. It taxes poor and working people disproportioately considering their incomes. Like I said though, it isn't the only shift that he made. Go look up the distribution of the tax burden before Mulroney came to power and after he left power.

You like to complain about taxes, Jay. You should learn about them.

 

[Jay]

Who me..I'm a good little socialist who never complains about taxes...

 

[Aitrus]

You can see what Mulroney did - GST + NAFTA. NAFTA was recommended in the report commissioned and shelved under Trudeau, and then again in the Royal Commission on the Economic Union and Development Prospects for Canada (by Donald McDonald).

http://www.library.utoronto.ca/robarts/microtext/collection/pages/carylcou.html

Tell me what Chretien did to shape up the economy? Right, coasted on the GST and NAFTA and invoked none of his own policies. The liberals don't make tough, politically unpopular decisions for the good of the country - they leave that for others who actually give a damn about Canada and it's people.

 

[mrmom2]

Yea they leave them to the Consevatubbys

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

What the Conservatives like to do is sell the country out from under us, make us pay for the pleasure of getting boned with our tax money, and then take cushy board positions from their corporate buddies as payback.

See how that works?

 

[Aitrus]

Sure, but I'm still waiting to hear which liberal policies turned the economy around. The royal commission on the subject recommended free trade, the liberals wouldn't do it - the conservatives did and between NAFTA and the GST pissed off a lot of people. Yet a few years later the economy turned right side up.

One interpretation is that without the sleazy conservatives firing off kickbacks to their corporate buddies the economy returned to normal.

Another is that GST/NAFTA solved the problems, and the liberals just coasted on them while the conservatives had been roasted for them.

It could be either, but two things make me believe the second: the fact the commission stated free trade would cure stagflation and boost the economy, and the fact that liberals are just as - if not more - crooked than conservatives when it comes to corporate kickbacks.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Why is Canada a membe

Our trade was increasing with the US at a faster rate before NAFTA.

 

[Jay]

Re: RE: Why is Canada a membe

What the Conservatives like to do is sell the country out from under us, make us pay for the pleasure of getting boned with our tax money, and then take cushy board positions from their corporate buddies as payback.

See how that works?

It's better than creating government jobs for your buddies though...