Why flee?

I think not

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Apr 12, 2005
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American dream revived for Cuban migrants
U.S. judge reverses 'wet-foot, dry-foot' decision that sent them home

SAN FRANCISCO DE PAULA, Cuba — Ernesto Hernandez hopes his luck is about to change.

Six times in the last 16 years the car mechanic welded a boat out of scrap metal, packed up his wife and son, and tried to cross the Florida Straits. “One day,” said Hernandez, “I am going to be reunited with my sister,” who lives near Tampa, Fla.

Five times he never made it out of Cuban waters. On each journey, he was spotted by a Cuban Border Patrol boat and turned back. Prior to 1994, when it was a criminal offense to leave the island without a government exit permit, he ended up in jail.

Just once Hernandez succeeded. In January, he and 14 other Cuban migrants spent two days at sea before they ran out of gas. Enduring high winds and foul weather, they made it to a discarded bridge piling in the Florida Keys, where they spent the night. They called family in Miami from a cell phone and, by morning, a U.S. Coast Guard cutter arrived to pick them up.

“We thought we were home-free,” said Hernandez.

But the Department of Homeland Security decided otherwise.

Sent home, but maybe not for long
“At first,” said Hernandez, “we were told we would be taken to Krome,” a South Florida detention center that processes foreign migrants. “But everything changed in 30 minutes. They refused to tell us where we were going, but when we saw the Cuban mountains we knew we were back where we started.”

Under current U.S. immigration policy, Cubans who reach U.S. land are usually permitted to stay, while people stopped at sea are sent back to the island. Homeland Security sent the group of 15 home under this “wet foot-dry foot” rule because the historic Old Seven Mile Bridge where they were discovered is in disuse and no longer connected to U.S. soil.

The decision angered their Miami relatives, who sought legal help.

Tuesday, a federal district court judge in Miami ruled in their favor. Judge Federico Moreno called the Coast Guard repatriation “unreasonable” and “illegal,” and instructed federal officials to “use their best efforts” to bring the 15 Cubans back to the United States. Government prosecutors have 30 days to appeal the decision.

It is not clear if President Fidel Castro’s government, which restricts the freedom of Cubans to leave the island, will permit them to leave for the United States.

Sticking together
Since the ruling, most of the group has stuck close together, spending time at a relative’s farmhouse in the small town of San Francisco de Paula, 90 miles east of Havana.

“I’ve hardly slept,” said Alexis Gonzalez, 28, who received the news from a high school friend now living in Miami. “I jumped up and down when I got the call. I was ecstatic.” He is convinced that Miami is in his immediate future. “I am going to get a job, a car and a house,” said Gonzalez.

His cousin, another member of the group, is more reserved. “I thought once that I had made it,” said Junior Blanco. “Let’s see what happens.”

Before leaving in January, Blanco had worked at the local quarry and lived with his young family in employee housing. By the time he returned, both his job and house had been assigned to someone else.

Blanco admits that he’s been too depressed to try to find another job. “He’s barely had the energy to go on,” said his wife, Elizabeth Hernandez, as she struggled to control their energetic toddler.

Deal between Washington and Havana
The repatriation of Cuban boat people started a decade ago under agreements between Washington and Havana that were designed to avoid another mass exodus like the one in 1994 when 35,000 people took to the sea, many in flimsy rafts, fleeing economic distress in post-Soviet Cuba.

The United States agreed to grant at least 20,000 visas a year to encourage orderly emigration.

But Castro routinely accuses Washington of encouraging Cubans to embark on dangerous crossings in precarious crafts by allowing them to stay if they manage to make it across.

Economic hardship continues to fuel a constant exodus. In fiscal year 2005, the U.S. Coast Guard intercepted 2,712 Cubans at sea, the most since the 1994 crisis. At least 39 others died trying to get to the United States.

Determined to go, but hurdles ahead
Ernesto Hernandez's group has already applied for Cuban passports and plans to take a bus to the Cuban capital on Monday to apply for U.S. visas at the American Mission.

But, the process to emigrate legally from Cuba is not only burdensome, but expensive. It can take months and fees run about $1,500 per person, steep when the average salary is $10 per month.

Because of the high profile of their case, Ernesto Hernandez does not expect to encounter problems from either government. “But I’m worried about the cost,” said Hernandez who ekes out a living fixing flat tires. “Frankly, I don’t know how I am going to afford this.”

But after spending a third of his life trying to leave Cuba, he is determined to find a way.

“I have a lot of dreams," Hernandez said. "I want to be happy with my family. I want to see my son become someone."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11641494/
 

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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Because they can't handle the socialist dream of Castro.

The question should be why does America allow them to return to Cuba if they are of the same ideology of American politicians?
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
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Jersay said:
Because they can't handle the socialist dream of Castro.

You mean nightmare.

Jersay said:
The question should be why does America allow them to return to Cuba if they are of the same ideology of American politicians?

The quest for freedom isn't an American thing Jersay. It's innate in every living being. And they are sent back because of laws. Over 1 million Cubans have fled Castro's "socialist dream", and they are still coming.
 

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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They can escape if they wanted too. Just look at the Cuban baseball team, they haven't escape. They agree with the socialist solution of Fidel even though he has made huge mistakes and other tragedies along the way.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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Ah, comrade Fidel makes mistakes by killing 20,000 opponents and torturing others as long as it is good for the revolution right? Doesn't matter that the man is a millionaire, does it?

And I'm sure the baseball team is well taken care of, sounds familiar with Soviet athletes.
 

Jersay

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Dec 1, 2005
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He has made mistakes, and i thought it was a lot more? However, add American and other western military action to combat socialism, the deaths of people by corrupt right-wing regimes and the deaths caused by evil capitalist corporations smoking for one, and you will have a much sizable statistic on the capitalist side.

Kind of ironic I must admit, comrade Fidel rose up to replace a dictator and now is his very own left-wing dictator.
 

I think not

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Tell you what Jersay, show me statistics of people immigrating to socialist paradises and compare them to those fleeing, since you like to compare everything.
 

Jersay

House Member
Dec 1, 2005
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Vietnam:

Population:
83,535,576 (July 2005 est.)
Age structure:
0-14 years: 27.9% (male 12,065,777/female 11,212,299)
15-64 years: 66.4% (male 27,406,456/female 28,024,250)
65 years and over: 5.8% (male 1,889,585/female 2,937,209) (2005 est.)
Median age:
total: 25.51 years
male: 24.47 years
female: 26.68 years (2005 est.)
Population growth rate:
1.04% (2005 est.)
Birth rate:
17.07 births/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Death rate:
6.2 deaths/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Net migration rate:
-0.43 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2005 est.)
Sex ratio:
at birth: 1.08 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.08 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 0.98 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.64 male(s)/female
total population: 0.98 male(s)/female (2005 est.)

Means: -.43 % for people leaving the country instead of remaining but that is balanced out by 1.08 birth
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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From the CIA factbook online, Cuba does well in some areas and very poor in others.

Of eight major Caribbean nations - Barbados, Bahamas, Dominican Republic, Haiti, Jamaica, Trinidad, Puerto Rico and Cuba;

Cuba has the lowest infant mortality rate of 6.33 per 1000. Next lowest is Puerto Rico at 8.24.

Cuba's life expectancy is 77.2, in line with Jamaica at 76.3 and Puerto Rico at 77.6. Everyone else is lower.

Literacy is 97%, in line with Barbados at 97.4%, Bahamas 95.6%, Trinidad 98.6% and Puerto Rico at 94.1%.

Net migration in Cuba is -1.58 per 1000, Puerto Rico -1.34, Haiti -1.68 and Barbados -0.31.


GDP per capita

Bahamas $17,700
Puerto Rico $17,700
Barbardos $16,400
Trinidad $10,500
Dom. Rep. $6,300
Jamaica $4,100
Cuba $3,000
Haiti $1,500


Telephones per 1000 inhabitants

Barbados 0.98
Bahamas 0.84
Jamaica 0.68
Peurto Rico 0.65
Trinidad 0.63
Dom Rep 0.34
Cuba 0.05
Haiti 0.03
 

cortez

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Feb 22, 2006
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I think not said:
Jersay said:
Because they can't handle the socialist dream of Castro.

You mean nightmare.

Jersay said:
The question should be why does America allow them to return to Cuba if they are of the same ideology of American politicians?

The quest for freedom isn't an American thing Jersay. It's innate in every living being. And they are sent back because of laws. Over 1 million Cubans have fled Castro's "socialist dream", and they are still coming.

that figure of 1 million is a good point
as a point of comparison however.......
how many latin americans are fleeing their nonsocialist supposed democracies millions upon millions-- and they are fleeing repression and corruption and poverty

mexicans, central americans etc

the sympathies i have for the cuban revolution are based on the fact that its a vast improvement on their pre-revolutionary situation which did not even have a semblance of justice ie
Batista.

but that sympathy is wearing thin - i cant personally condone a dictatorship of any kind --- even if it is RELATIVELY benevolent-- unlesss of course there is some kind of transition plan towards full democrasy in the works- which there does not appear to be
the case

unfortunately im going to have to take issue with my fellow socialists in this particular case-----

the democratically elected left leaning governments of say Lula or Kitchener etc although imperfect are more credible alternatives than a dictatorship despite its socialist outlook--

the intention of socialism was to liberate man-- not to imprison him further--

and no - im not cuban
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
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Cortez

Since you brought up Batista, I would like you to show me links that support your claim. I do not doubt Batista was a dictator, but I have never read any article or any book, that would place Batista alongside Castro. So, being admitedly ignorant on the topic, show me where Batista was worse than Castro.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
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Can I immigrate to Cuba. I don't know about this democracy thing, I think the basic ideas O/K but it needs a little more work, what kind of democracy has the US and Canada become. Afterall only 36% voted for the ruling party in Canada is that democratic, is it the will of the majority, and what part of our society is served above all others, what hugh special interest group do we serve.
 

Sassylassie

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Jan 31, 2006
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Oil, oil and more oil. The Oil Industry is eyeing the coast of BC with a very lusty glance. Those helos aren't just for forest fires folks. They are in Nova Scotia, New Foundland and Alberta. We caved, they always seem to get what they want. Fish species and fisher persons arn't equal to the equation of OIL.
 

darkbeaver

the universe is electric
Jan 26, 2006
41,035
201
63
RR1 Distopia 666 Discordia
Sassylassie said:
Oil, oil and more oil. The Oil Industry is eyeing the coast of BC with a very lusty glance. Those helos aren't just for forest fires folks. They are in Nova Scotia, New Foundland and Alberta. We caved, they always seem to get what they want. Fish species and fisher persons arn't equal to the equation of OIL.

I wasn't aware that we had any fish left anyway, they shouldn't be allowed to interfere with the oil industry .