Why aren't immigrants welcome in Alberta, Canada?
- Thread starter Dervish_Khan
- Start date
All right... I'm not sure exactly what you're getting at, so I'll make a few assumptions.
If the area consists of gangs of a specific race, then my being racist would depend on why I feared to go back. If it were the gangs members themselves... in other words, their "colours" then I'm just being sensible. If it were black people in general (or whatever) then I would be racist.
B's VMs refused to go back to the area... is that right? Are they excused for what you or I would be criticized for?
If the area consists of gangs of a specific race, then my being racist would depend on why I feared to go back. If it were the gangs members themselves... in other words, their "colours" then I'm just being sensible. If it were black people in general (or whatever) then I would be racist.
B's VMs refused to go back to the area... is that right? Are they excused for what you or I would be criticized for?
I don't know C...
I don't how things work in lotusland, but I do know this...here in the Peg, the Main Street bars are patronized by a predominantly native clientele...that said, I'm not in any hurry to go drinking in any of the Main Street bars on a Friday night...why? Mostly because I would encounter more bullshit than I'm willing to endure without a fight...and I'd probably lose... :wink:
Now, do I think that everyone in those bars is going to give me a hard time? No I do not...
Do I think that every patron of those bars is native? No I do not...
Do I think that I will be given a hard time, every time? Most likely...at least that's been my experience in just being in the area at certain times...
Does this mean I'm racist for not wishing to patronize Main Street bars? Hard to say, but I don't think I am...
I don't how things work in lotusland, but I do know this...here in the Peg, the Main Street bars are patronized by a predominantly native clientele...that said, I'm not in any hurry to go drinking in any of the Main Street bars on a Friday night...why? Mostly because I would encounter more bullshit than I'm willing to endure without a fight...and I'd probably lose... :wink:
Now, do I think that everyone in those bars is going to give me a hard time? No I do not...
Do I think that every patron of those bars is native? No I do not...
Do I think that I will be given a hard time, every time? Most likely...at least that's been my experience in just being in the area at certain times...
Does this mean I'm racist for not wishing to patronize Main Street bars? Hard to say, but I don't think I am...
Turn this around, then, Vanni. What if I as a white woman refused to go to Manitoba for an assignment because the last few times some Natives made me feel uncomfortable with their racist comments?
Wouldn't you rightly label me a racist myself?
Wouldn't you rightly label me a racist myself?
I think the problem here C, is that we are both over-generalizing...in Blair's example, the two VM's may or may not have said that they refused to go to Alberta or Saskatchewan, but in reality they were refusing to provide service to the clients in those provinces because of earlier instances of racism they'd endured, at the hands of some of those clients...
Re: RE: Why
No, because you're making a judgement, based on experience...you are not deriding any race, you are just avoiding the uncomfortable situation you experience with the racist comments...would I consider you racist, no I would not...a little jittery or timid maybe... :wink:
Now, if you said "I'm not going to Manitoba because of all them f**king Indians"...that would be racist...making a decision, in order to avoid potential racism, is not...
LadyC said:
No, because you're making a judgement, based on experience...you are not deriding any race, you are just avoiding the uncomfortable situation you experience with the racist comments...would I consider you racist, no I would not...a little jittery or timid maybe... :wink:
Now, if you said "I'm not going to Manitoba because of all them f**king Indians"...that would be racist...making a decision, in order to avoid potential racism, is not...
You don't have to be rude to be racist.
But if I read that right, it's okay to avoid people of certain races on the assumption that they will all be racist toward me... and that's not racist.
Good to know.
But if I read that right, it's okay to avoid people of certain races on the assumption that they will all be racist toward me... and that's not racist.
Good to know.
I see your point C, and I can see this is a touchy subject that has no easy answer...and so, I'll retreat for now, and give it some more thought...
Is it an assumption if you have encountered it several times and others have witnessed the same thing?
Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.
Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.
Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.
Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.
They took some cases of racism from a few people and attributed it to the population as a whole.
What would you call that, B?
What would you call that, B?
Ever been to a kareoke bar down there Lady C ? I haven't because I value my life so does that make me a racist?
Down there? Where's down there?
It's hardly racist to avoid a bunch of people who think they can sing. I'd call that smart on your part.
BTW... I had a great time in your fair city on the weekend. The rain even held off till we were halfway to Merritt. If you had a hand in that.... thanks.
It's hardly racist to avoid a bunch of people who think they can sing. I'd call that smart on your part.
BTW... I had a great time in your fair city on the weekend. The rain even held off till we were halfway to Merritt. If you had a hand in that.... thanks.
I calls 'em as I sees 'em B.
You can spin this till you upchuck, it's not going to change the basic facts.
You can spin this till you upchuck, it's not going to change the basic facts.
Re: RE: Why
[quote="Reverend Blair
Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.
Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.[/quote]
What I find ironic here is that virtually all of the posts have come from people outside Sask and Alberta.
Rev, you made the point "Is it an assumption if you have encountered it several times and others have witnessed the same thing? "
There is an area in our town where natives congregate and generally drink and lay about. This is beyond debate, it happens all the time. Certainly not all natives in our town frequent this area as most of the native population in our town are too busy working, but this area is dominated by natives. If we all see this, does this make us racist if we choose not to go there in order to avoid being accosted? I have said on many other posts that I have many native friends and acquaintances. On the other hand, I have been accused by natives of stealing land, etc. simply because I am white. Obviously I have had nothing to do with anything relating to these claims, but because I am white living in southern Alberta, I get this. To me, this is racist. Quite frankly, your continued references to Albertans as bigotted and redneck is racist, or at the very least prejudicial and ignorant. Until you stop your prejudicial and racist comments, then you really have no leg to stand on during this debate.
[quote="Reverend Blair
Like I said, C...in my examples we had noticed the racism of several of the customers in those areas. There was also racism encountered at hotels and restaurants.
Your assertion that people who wished to avoid being treated like that are themselves exhibiting racism is ridiculous. They were not basing their actions on race, they were basing their actions on experience and exhibited no tendency towards racism against white people, even white people that they knew came from those areas.[/quote]
What I find ironic here is that virtually all of the posts have come from people outside Sask and Alberta.
Rev, you made the point "Is it an assumption if you have encountered it several times and others have witnessed the same thing? "
There is an area in our town where natives congregate and generally drink and lay about. This is beyond debate, it happens all the time. Certainly not all natives in our town frequent this area as most of the native population in our town are too busy working, but this area is dominated by natives. If we all see this, does this make us racist if we choose not to go there in order to avoid being accosted? I have said on many other posts that I have many native friends and acquaintances. On the other hand, I have been accused by natives of stealing land, etc. simply because I am white. Obviously I have had nothing to do with anything relating to these claims, but because I am white living in southern Alberta, I get this. To me, this is racist. Quite frankly, your continued references to Albertans as bigotted and redneck is racist, or at the very least prejudicial and ignorant. Until you stop your prejudicial and racist comments, then you really have no leg to stand on during this debate.
Re: RE: Why
Missed this the first time through. Many people would say that gays are not a race either.
Your redneck comment only reinforces your prejudices and bigottry to Albertans: AGAIN
Reverend Blair said:
Missed this the first time through. Many people would say that gays are not a race either.
Your redneck comment only reinforces your prejudices and bigottry to Albertans: AGAIN
Dervish_Khan said:
You make it sound that racism is something inherent with Aryans. This is obsurd. I agree, there have been well-documented cases of racism by Europeans, but it doesn't mean it is solely a European thing. People aren't born hating people, certain perceptions and experiences and the human tendency to generalize is the root of this problem. To stamp out racism, the negative perceptions must be eliminated. The holocaust didn't succeed because Germans or Germanic people hate Jews. I suspect that Hitler hated Jews, based on event in his own life and he was able to sell this negative perception and take advantage of a demoralized Germany in the 1940's.
As for today's racism, I believe most of it stems from the victims themselves. Many visible minorities have this inferiority complex stemming from the past when their people were oppressed. I mean, if people all look at you in a coffee shop and the first thing you think of is that it is racism, I'd say that is paranoia. I've seen is with my own parents. They wouldn't apply for promotion cause they assumed they wouldn't get it because of their skin, or they would stick with their own kind cause they assumed others would not accept them.
Immigrants today are paranoid and whiners with inferiority complexes. They don't know what racism is or how bad it could be. And in my opinion, they are just as racist as everyone else.
cdn_bc_ca said:
I'm the prodigy of two 1960's immigrants. I know what I'm talking about, I see it first hand. Bring it on. I see how immigrants were before when things were worse and how they are today when things are pretty damn good.