Why aren't immigrants welcome in Alberta, Canada?

[Said1]

You know, you have a point, not every single person in Alberta is racist or acts in a discrimintaroy fashion towards those from other countries or provinces.

I never said every single person. I never said it was restricted to just those two provinces either. Prejudice and bigotry are more prevalent in Alberta and Saskatchewan, especially in the rural areas. Denying it instead of confronting it just allows the attitudes to spread.

I didn't say you did, and if you didn't notice the sarcasm following what you quoted, I must be slipping.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Rev have you ever experianced what I was talking about in my last post in this thread?I was talking about lake Winnipeg

Sorry...I missed that post.

Not here. I have experienced it elsewhere though. Some of it grows from resentment, some of it is just old fashioned racism.

 

[Dervish_Khan]

DasFX,
Greetings to you,

I kindly request that you allocate some of your priceless time to re-read my initial post, for I never stated that the entire population of Alberta was made up of racists. That is an absurd and inmature thing to say. Nonetheless, racism, in various forms and methods, is still an undeniable fact in Canada. There are people out there who condone, support and exercise racism.

What happened to the millions in the West who congregated in Town-halls during and after the great wars and chanted "Keep Canada White" ? Did they vanish into thin air? What happened to their offsprings, their families? I bet you that this hateful ideology is and has been transmitted through generations.

 

[Dervish_Khan]

You know, I've been to India a few times and let me tell you, when a European person enters a store, everyone looks at them. Does that mean Indians are racists? Racism is not a "white" issue. It goes both ways.

It may, to a certain extend, be correct. Alas, I have never been to India nor do I possess sufficient knowledge about Indian customs and traditions. Hence, I will not be able to account for why those people gazed at you.

But believe me, racism has its roots in Europe. Of course, by that I do not mean to say that people of European descent are racists. Europe has apparently learnt from its mistakes.
Nevertheless, history has shown that many of the documented cases of racism involved Europeans. In fact, the idea of race-based nation-states was introduced by the Europeans.
Who do you think enslaved the millions in Africa? Why do you think the hundreds and thounsds of Jews in Spain escaped persecution by seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire? Who, in your knowledge, mass-murdered millions of Jews during the second world war? Who invaded North Africa and slaughtered millions of local people? Which anthropologists measured people's physical attributes and classified them as "white" and "non-white"? Who introduced racism to South Africa? It was the Europeans.
[/quote]

 

[DasFX]

Hence, I will not be able to account for why those people gazed at you.

I'm not white, so nobody gazed at me.

But believe me, racism has its roots in Europe. Of course, by that I do not mean to say that people of European descent are racists. Europe has apparently learnt from its mistakes.
Nevertheless, history has shown that many of the documented cases of racism involved Europeans. In fact, the idea of race-based nation-states was introduced by the Europeans.
Who do you think enslaved the millions in Africa? Why do you think the hundreds and thounsds of Jews in Spain escaped persecution by seeking refuge in the Ottoman Empire? Who, in your knowledge, mass-murdered millions of Jews during the second world war? Who invaded North Africa and slaughtered millions of local people? Which anthropologists measured people's physical attributes and classified them as "white" and "non-white"? Who introduced racism to South Africa? It was the Europeans.

As a first generation Canuck of south east Asians, I must say that your statement is completely false. If I am to believe that the civilizations of India, China are as old as they claim then it is obvious that racism is older than Europe.

It is easy to paint one people a certain way when you can pick and choose your examples like you have. Descrimination and prejueduice in non-white nations if huge. For instance in India, fairer coloured people in the north are treated much better and much more desirable than darker people of the south. All one has to do is watch a typical Indian movie. The hero and heroine are both fair, almost white, whereas the evil villian is dark. You talk about aparthid, what about the Caste system which kept people at certain levels of society based on family name (which is genetics).

These incidents are not as prominent cause Asian history isn't as prominent here.

You said I should believe you and your claims about racismn in Western Canada. Why? What makes you an expert? Because you had a few odd looks at Tim's in Medicine Hat or Lethbridge?

I go to small towns in Ontario and folk look at me, but they are only curious, they want to learn. You shouldn't be so quick to judge!

 

[Dervish_Khan]

Thanks for the promptness and swiftness with which you attended to my previous post. Let me just saythat I also am aware of the caste system in India. But it is commonly believed that the Indo-Iranians(North Indians, Persians, Kurds, Punjabis, Kashmiris) who introduced the caste system to the Indian subcontinent are of Caucasoid stock. This means they are classified as "white". This again supports my initial belief that racism has its roots in Europe. In fact, it does not take an expert to know why Hitler was very sympathetic towards Persians and Indians.

 

[Jo Canadian]

Having lived in Alberta for several years I did notice one thing. As many of you have mentioned there is Racism there, but also tolerance. What I noticed though was that many of the different groups of people there tended to "stay with their own kind" moreso than I've seen in some other provinces. This doesn't mean they're racist, but the lack of contact between members of these people does create some misunderstandings between groups.

I saw more racism after 911 though. Good friends of mine would yell at anyone looking middle eastern,

"Get off the Road you Terrorist!!" And many of the people where I worked also had that sentiment. I spent many fun hours debating the profiling thing with them.

It also goes both ways there, I've had native people calling me racist and shi* because I was doing my job (bouncer) and not letting those who have overindulged onto the premisis. To me that excuse is a cop out. Also as mentioned in a previous post:The Battle for Union Supremacy in the Oilsands

ooooooooo. I'd have to get the name of the union my buddy worked in when he was working at the camp. He's usually quite outspoken and speaks out if he sees things that aren't right. In the end, that only got him jacked around and fired, especially after he complained about racism. He may be white but the Lebaneese running many top levels of the things weren't very accomodating to non lebs. If I get hold of him at some point I'll get the name.

Since I was more or less raised as a minority I got used to hanging around with different groups of people, and tried continuing to do so down south. That's where I noticed especially in Alberta and BC that everyone stuck with thier own groups and that each group had many misconceptions of the other groups. My Inuk buddy who went to school at USask, also had a rough time there for being native and had a hard time trying to hang out with any group that wasn't like him.

All I can say is try to hang around as many different people as possible and you end up getting to kill a few myths about these people...Including rednecks, some of them are pretty cool.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Re: RE: Why

Sounds like your "visible minorities" are a tad racist themselves.

That's not racism. Just because they are *afraid* (might the wrong word) to go back to an area and refuse to provide a service there isn't racism.

A basic search on the Internet provides this definition:
"Racism refers to the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, that a certain race is inherently superior or inferior to others, and/or that individuals should be treated differently based on their ascribed race. "

Unless I read the post incorrectly, there was no indication that the visible minorities (VM's) Rev B was referring to made any racial remarks towards the people living in the area they refused to go into. Furthermore, there was no indication that the VM's touted themselves as being superior nor were they attempting to treat those people differently when they *were* there.

LadyC, Is this analogous to your argument?
I go to a restaurant, they treat me bad by making me feel inferior. I don't want to go there again. My friend calls me up to have dinner there, I say no. Am I racist?

I'm not making excuses so much as you're turning a blind eye to a different form of racism.

Please educate me on the form of racism you are referring to. I can't seem to put a name to it.

 

[LadyC]

Would you refuse to eat in any restaurant because of your experiences in the one?

They didn't refuse to go back to "an area"... they refused to work in 2 entire provinces because of what they called racism.

Maybe racism isn't the right word... I don't know, and frankly I don't care. To judge an entire group of people based on the idiocy of a few is wrong, regardless of what you want to call it.

 

[LadyC]

Unless I read the post incorrectly, there was no indication that the visible minorities (VM's) Rev B was referring to made any racial remarks towards the people living in the area they refused to go into. Furthermore, there was no indication that the VM's touted themselves as being superior nor were they attempting to treat those people differently when they *were* there.

They encountered racism while on business in Alberta and Saskatchewan so they refused to go back for fear of more racism. They prejudged the entire population based on the actions aof a few.

How about you give that a name?

 

[Reverend Blair]

They refused to go back to two provinces because they constantly confronted with racism in those places, C. They had experienced enough to decide that they weren't going back.

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Re: RE: Why

Keep spinning, B. Whatever way you want to twist things, you're judging a whole province based on the actions of a few.

That's racism.

You must be getting dizzy.

Generalizations are a part of everyday life. You make them without even knowing it. For example, if you bought a car that gave you nothing but trouble, you might make a generalization about that type of car or manufacturer. Based on that experience, you made a generalization, but that doesn't mean all the cars are like that, it might be just the one you bought.

It's very easy to make generalizations based on the actions of a few. Just look at the war in Iraq and Afghanistan brought upon by the actions of a few.

 

[LadyC]

You realize your post just supported what I've been saying, right?

And B... whatever excuses they want to give, it doesn't make them right.

 

[Jo Canadian]

It would make them uncomfortable to live in that environment though. Why live in a place where (even if it is some) people would make you feel uncomfortable, ostracised, or even safe? If it were me I would move to where I would feel more at ease. I've done it before, and it because I was white. (mind you where I went was all native too, but they all knew me)

 

[LadyC]

No-one asked them to move anywhere. They refused to do business there.

However... why assume you'll be uncomfortable, ostracized, or unsafe before getting to know any of yur potential neighbours?

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Re: RE: Why

Would you refuse to eat in any restaurant because of your experiences in the one?

No, I wouldn't go back to *that* restaurant because of my experience there. (replace restaurant with province in my examples).

They didn't refuse to go back to "an area"... they refused to work in 2 entire provinces because of what they called racism.

2 provinces could be considered "an area". Heck 3 provinces could be considered an area too

Maybe racism isn't the right word... I don't know, and frankly I don't care. To judge an entire group of people based on the idiocy of a few is wrong, regardless of what you want to call it.[/quote]

I see your point, but to me, that is not racism... as there was no indication of one race/group/whatever being superior/inferior to another.

I think the word you are looking for is "Prejudice".
Here the definition I found on the Internet:
"Prejudice is, as the name implies, the process of "pre-judging" something. In general, it implies coming to a judgement on the subject before learning where the preponderance of the evidence actually lies....Sometimes this is a matter of fallaciously extending one's own experience to the general case. In other cases, it may be a matter of early education; those taught that certain attitudes are the "correct" ones may form opinions without weighing the evidence on both sides of a given question."

 

[LadyC]

Like I said, I don't care what word you want to use, it's wrong to prejudge a group of people based on the actions of a few.

Regarding your definition of "area"... you're quibbling. Your restaurant analogy doesn't really work either, as you're still willing to eat out... you've just boycotted a particular restaurant. (presumably not the entire chain?)

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

Re: RE: Why

You realize your post just supported what I've been saying, right?

And B... whatever excuses they want to give, it doesn't make them right.

No, you are saying the VM's were/are racist... which is not what I'm saying.

To generalize doesn't mean to be racist. Example, humans drink water, is that racist?

 

[LadyC]

You gave an example of a car. If I owned, say, a Honda Prelude that gave me grief and I vowed never to own a Honda again... I'm generalizing. Is it a fair generalization? No. Is it racist? No, again... unless you insert "East Indian" for "Honda Prelude".

Not very good with the concept of analogies, are you?

 

[cdn_bc_ca]

I give up :roll:

I apologize. As a token of my appreciation, let me take you on a stroll of LA, South Central to be exact where I was originally from. If you make it out alive and unscathed, I'll be glad to take you back the next week because I know you won't refuse... besides, if you do, you're racist.