Who owns the land you live on, you or the Natives?

[bluealberta]

Re: RE: Residential Schools

No, wallyj, not all expansion is abuse. However, the residential school system, which accompanied the expansion of Canada, quite certainly was abuse, and it should be denounced as such.

With due respect, Five, I think this gets way too general in scope. I grew up very near to a residential school, and in fact one of my cousins taught there many years ago. While there is no denying there were instances of abuse, I still maintain we cannot take past incidents and hold them up to the mirror of present day society. In the earlier days, I believe there was a sincere effort to educate the Native population, which meant the kids. I wonder what would have happend if there had been no effort, keeping in mind that at that time in history, there would have been no chance of integrating whites and Natives. Would the Natives know condemn us because we made no effort at educating the children, thus further alienating Natives on reserves? I have no answer, because I was not there. But I think it is safe to say that if we look at what was taught in school in the fities, as opposed to now, there are a great many things that make no sense, and are either laughed at or condemned. Rember hiding under desks was the taught procedure for hiding from a nuclear bomb way back when.

Just putting some perspective on this, and there are many instances of many natives who came out of the residential system with no scars, phsyical or mental, and have become contributing members of society.

 

[Jersay]

Blue Alberta surprisingly I believe not far off from your perception. However, I believe new agreements should be signed that in a five to ten to 15 year period between all Aboriginal, Metis and Inuit tribes, that the Federal government will provide support but will decrease it support each year as the Aboriginal governments advance on own self-governance without corruption, full time medical resources, and a police force that can deal with internal matters. And when that time period is complete and that one aboriginal band has reached its agreement and is self-governing they have local elections and pay taxes as well as any other Canadian, and can ask for assistance in state of Emergencies and call in the RCMp in necessary.

 

[bluealberta]

Blue Alberta surprisingly I believe not far off from your perception. However, I believe new agreements should be signed that in a five to ten to 15 year period between all Aboriginal, Metis and Inuit tribes, that the Federal government will provide support but will decrease it support each year as the Aboriginal governments advance on own self-governance without corruption, full time medical resources, and a police force that can deal with internal matters. And when that time period is complete and that one aboriginal band has reached its agreement and is self-governing they have local elections and pay taxes as well as any other Canadian, and can ask for assistance in state of Emergencies and call in the RCMp in necessary.

I gather from reading your posts that you support the Native cause, which is laudable to a point. However, I would suggest that until the internal politicking on reserves is cleaned up, there will never be a satisfactory solution. Around here, the joke is that the best house on the reserve belongs to the chief, the second best to his parents, the third best to his kids....well, you get the idea. Sadly, it is not far off the truth in a number of cases. The money that gets wasted on reserves is a travesty, which only makes me more frustrated when I hear Native protestors wanting more. On a reserve near here, money had been allocated for putting up wind turbines on the reserve to assist with their development. However after all the negotiations were done and the turbines were ordered, it was discovered that all the money had been spent, so more had to be given. No audits were done on where the money went, and to this day, if it is know, it is not public. That, to me, is a form of reverse racism, given that the reason for not either discovering where the money went, or why it is not public, is because there would be cries of racism from the Native community.

Your points about graduated agreements has some merit, though, and I tend to support your thoughts in this matter.

 

[Jersay]

I gather from reading your posts that you support the Native cause, which is laudable to a point. However, I would suggest that until the internal politicking on reserves is cleaned up, there will never be a satisfactory solution. Around here, the joke is that the best house on the reserve belongs to the chief, the second best to his parents, the third best to his kids....well, you get the idea. Sadly, it is not far off the truth in a number of cases. The money that gets wasted on reserves is a travesty, which only makes me more frustrated when I hear Native protestors wanting more. On a reserve near here, money had been allocated for putting up wind turbines on the reserve to assist with their development. However after all the negotiations were done and the turbines were ordered, it was discovered that all the money had been spent, so more had to be given. No audits were done on where the money went, and to this day, if it is know, it is not public. That, to me, is a form of reverse racism, given that the reason for not either discovering where the money went, or why it is not public, is because there would be cries of racism from the Native community.

Your points about graduated agreements has some merit, though, and I tend to support your thoughts in this matter.

I thank you for your response. I too live near a reserve and from meeting the chief several times, here it appears the exact opposite. But I guess there is not much you can do with a town on three sides and the ocean on the other.

I agree there is corruption within Indian Affairs and Band councils it is clear. Auditing them might be a good step we will have to wait and see, and yes I do support Native people when their cause is right, for example I believe it is right in Caledonia and I know it was right in Oka and Ipperwash.

 

[bluealberta]

Well, hell, and we were doing so well. Your last statement is something I cannot agree with, but thats okay. I have also been involved in a blockade where my hometown was essentially isolated, which caused a lot of friction. To me, breaking the law is breaking the law, no matter who, and they perpatrators of the blockade should be punished. Otherwise, Anarchy is the end result, or violence, which is not good either.

 

[selfactivated]

I have a question if I may interupt for 1 sec. Are your tribes not autonomous? They dont have their own governing bodies like here in the USA (I usualy say "states" but I dont know if thats PC around here)

 

[wallyj]

The only way the natives of this country will advance is to advance to the 21st century.Get rid of your hate,EDUCATE the next generation.Give the children you love a chance. Stop the insanity.

 

[Lineman]

Residential schools did good. Being raised by white people was good.

Sorry Jersay, residential schools were a dismal failure and a planned destruction of the native way of life. Government officials would show up, remove the children from their homes, ship them away from their families for the year, strip them of everything familiar, punish them for speaking their language or practising their beliefs and shame them into acting "white". Beatings , degradation, humiliation, and so on were the norm. No one could live through that and not be affected. Land claims aside, these people who suffered through this "school system" have spent years being at best confused about their identity and at worst emulating the violence they experienced onto their own family and kids

 

[Jersay]

Lineman sorry if i confused you, I was repeating what wally was saying, and I couldn't figure out that some one in this day and age would think that Residential schools were good.

 

[Jersay]

I have a question if I may interupt for 1 sec. Are your tribes not autonomous? They dont have their own governing bodies like here in the USA (I usualy say "states" but I dont know if thats PC around here)

In Canada, the Natives have band councils that are self-governing but band councils are a government construct not traditional. However, right now I think the deabte in Canada is how powerful they should be.

 

[FiveParadox]

Re: Extent of Native Autonomy

I would suggest that areas of Native governance (to be herein referred to as "reserves") should have the authority to govern themselves, to an extent. However, there should be mechanisms in place whereby the Government of the Province or the Government of Canada could exercise paramountcy over those reserves if an urgent or exigent need arises.

I would suggest that as a check on the power of the reserves, and keeping in mind that in a majority of cases our Native people have a good relationship with the monarchy to this date, the Lieutenant Governor of the Province in which the reserve is situated should serve in another capacity as the Lieutenant Governor of the Reserve. The Lieutenant Governor would represent Her Majesty the Queen of Canada in this capacity, and not as a representative of the government; his or her assent to legislation or regulations would only ever be withheld if it was determined that such legislation would be in explicit violation of the laws of the Province, or the laws of Canada (both of which would be paramount in the event of a disagreement in laws).

 

[Karlin]

STG, I don't understand this thread, someone has to educate me. It's my understanding aboriginal peoples of Canada have their own lands (federal reserves?), what am I missing here?

You have swallowed the lies.

When an Indiangoes to the bank to get a loan, he cannot use his land as collaterol - how could the bank re-posees it?

So, there is a lot of issues and corners to look around in this issue. It is only that conservative "narrow view" of issues that comes to these easy and quick conclusions, which are, ultimatly, rascist and discriminatory.

 

[Jay]

Police arrest B.C. highway construction protesters

Police began arresting protesters and dismantling a highway construction blockade on the 39th day of the demonstration at Eagleridge Bluffs in West Vancouver on Thursday.

"This morning, they reluctantly began arresting people. First they gave them a warning, however, and they gave people who did not want to be arrested the chance to leave," CTV Vancouver's Janet Dirks told Newsnet from the scene.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe...vancouver_blockade_060525/20060525?hub=Canada


Because only "some" people are allowed to block roads and do as they please.

 

[selfactivated]

I have a question if I may interupt for 1 sec. Are your tribes not autonomous? They dont have their own governing bodies like here in the USA (I usualy say "states" but I dont know if thats PC around here)

In Canada, the Natives have band councils that are self-governing but band councils are a government construct not traditional. However, right now I think the deabte in Canada is how powerful they should be.

I see. Thank You Jersay.

How horrible would it be if they were allowed to be a separate government based on tribal council? Giving them a set achorage and their own coucil would end all the fuss wouldnt it?

 

[Jersay]

I see. Thank You Jersay.

How horrible would it be if they were allowed to be a separate government based on tribal council? Giving them a set achorage and their own coucil would end all the fuss wouldnt it?

Possibly.

And Jay, I don't know alot about this protest in Vancouver. If it is really to protect the wildlife bluffs and not to protect house value I would support it all its way. So can someone explain more about this issue.

 

[Lineman]

Lineman sorry if i confused you, I was repeating what wally was saying, and I couldn't figure out that some one in this day and age would think that Residential schools were good.

Apologies, I missed that in my first read through. Glad we're on the same page regarding that topic.