Who needs the cow, when hou can get the milk

Angstrom

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May 8, 2011
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Why are good men so hard to find?
MARGARET WENTE
September 23 at 8:00 AM ET
Spend a little time with single women in their early to mid-30s, and you'll be grateful you're not one of them. The relationship scene is even more dismal today than when I was their age. All the women want serious relationships that lead to marriage, but many of the men they meet do not. All too often a woman moves in with some guy, hoping they're on the road to somewhere. Two years later, he tells her he's not ready for marriage and kids just yet. Splat.
But wait. Hasn't online dating made the mating market easier? Yes – for men. If you really want to hear a woman rant, just utter the word Tinder.
Single women are more equal and empowered than ever before. They have unparalleled sexual, reproductive and economic autonomy. In many ways, they're doing much better than the men. (Just look at the lopsided university graduation rates, which are now around 60-40). And yet, large numbers of young women admit their private lives are a sad mess.
If you're a gender studies major, stop reading here. You're going to hate what I've got to say next. I don't like it much myself.

In a nutshell, over the past few decades, the traditional relationship exchange has broken down. It used to be that men and women each had something the other really needed. Men needed access to sex. Women needed access to resources. Men couldn't get steady access to sex unless they had resources to offer, so they worked hard for them. The partnership between men and women was a grand bargain that (usually) left both sides better off.
For men, sex was traditionally expensive. The price tag was a long-term commitment to provide for a woman (and children). But today, sex is cheap. And that changes everything.
This is the premise of a bracing new book, Cheap Sex, by American sociologist Mark Regnerus. Sex got cheap because of three technological developments: the advent of the Pill, which divorced fertility from sex; the onset of mass-produced, high-quality pornography; and the arrival of online dating sites, which make it easy for men to find willing sex partners.
Sexual liberation is a fabulous thing – in some ways. But it can also turn men into louts, because women don't expect much in return for access. Today, most men can have all the sex they want for very little cost – no fancy dinner required. The irony, as Mr. Regnerus writes, is that today's mating market is probably more dominated by men's interests than ever before.

When women complain that marriageable men (sober, steady good providers) are harder to find than ever, they may well be right. The marriage rate is falling steadily, especially among the lower middle class, while long-term stable marriage is increasingly a privilege reserved for the better off.
A lot of women seem to have their act together these days. But a lot of men don't. "I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labour market screaming out 'You need more education'… and men have not," MIT economics professor Michael Greenstone says in Cheap Sex.
What might explain this puzzling fact? Men don't have to prove themselves as providers any more. They can get all the sex they want anyway – including online porn on demand that can make the real thing feel mildly disappointing. (Ask younger women about men and porn. You'll get an earful.)
Like it or not, women have always been the gatekeepers for sex – not because they don't like sex, too, but because (no matter what you learned in gender studies) men's sex drive is innately higher. This means it's up to us to make the rules. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" my father used to say. It drove me crazy when he said that. Now, it's dawned on me that he was right.

Since the women's cartel collapsed, women's bargaining power has seriously eroded. That's why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.
It may take a village to raise a child. But it takes a village to raise a husband, too. And modern society has largely abdicated from the job. "Good husband material doesn't occur naturally, but is instead the product (in part) of socialization, development, and social control," Mr. Regnerus writes. "n the domain of sex and relationships men will act as nobly as women collectively demand."
Time to get our act together, ladies. If we don't, they won't either.


Ive Been predicting this for years
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Miss Wentes sounds like an uptight, very sexist old maid who is bitter over something some man did to her and that she can't get laid in a free and open sex market.
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
7,300
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Why are good men so hard to find?
MARGARET WENTE
September 23 at 8:00 AM ET
Spend a little time with single women in their early to mid-30s, and you'll be grateful you're not one of them. The relationship scene is even more dismal today than when I was their age. All the women want serious relationships that lead to marriage, but many of the men they meet do not. All too often a woman moves in with some guy, hoping they're on the road to somewhere. Two years later, he tells her he's not ready for marriage and kids just yet. Splat.
But wait. Hasn't online dating made the mating market easier? Yes – for men. If you really want to hear a woman rant, just utter the word Tinder.
Single women are more equal and empowered than ever before. They have unparalleled sexual, reproductive and economic autonomy. In many ways, they're doing much better than the men. (Just look at the lopsided university graduation rates, which are now around 60-40). And yet, large numbers of young women admit their private lives are a sad mess.
If you're a gender studies major, stop reading here. You're going to hate what I've got to say next. I don't like it much myself.

In a nutshell, over the past few decades, the traditional relationship exchange has broken down. It used to be that men and women each had something the other really needed. Men needed access to sex. Women needed access to resources. Men couldn't get steady access to sex unless they had resources to offer, so they worked hard for them. The partnership between men and women was a grand bargain that (usually) left both sides better off.
For men, sex was traditionally expensive. The price tag was a long-term commitment to provide for a woman (and children). But today, sex is cheap. And that changes everything.
This is the premise of a bracing new book, Cheap Sex, by American sociologist Mark Regnerus. Sex got cheap because of three technological developments: the advent of the Pill, which divorced fertility from sex; the onset of mass-produced, high-quality pornography; and the arrival of online dating sites, which make it easy for men to find willing sex partners.
Sexual liberation is a fabulous thing – in some ways. But it can also turn men into louts, because women don't expect much in return for access. Today, most men can have all the sex they want for very little cost – no fancy dinner required. The irony, as Mr. Regnerus writes, is that today's mating market is probably more dominated by men's interests than ever before.

When women complain that marriageable men (sober, steady good providers) are harder to find than ever, they may well be right. The marriage rate is falling steadily, especially among the lower middle class, while long-term stable marriage is increasingly a privilege reserved for the better off.
A lot of women seem to have their act together these days. But a lot of men don't. "I think the greatest, most astonishing fact that I am aware of in social science right now is that women have been able to hear the labour market screaming out 'You need more education'… and men have not," MIT economics professor Michael Greenstone says in Cheap Sex.
What might explain this puzzling fact? Men don't have to prove themselves as providers any more. They can get all the sex they want anyway – including online porn on demand that can make the real thing feel mildly disappointing. (Ask younger women about men and porn. You'll get an earful.)
Like it or not, women have always been the gatekeepers for sex – not because they don't like sex, too, but because (no matter what you learned in gender studies) men's sex drive is innately higher. This means it's up to us to make the rules. "Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free?" my father used to say. It drove me crazy when he said that. Now, it's dawned on me that he was right.

Since the women's cartel collapsed, women's bargaining power has seriously eroded. That's why so many single women hate Tinder, which has further commodified sex for the benefit of men. Women are just another consumer good in the shop window.
It may take a village to raise a child. But it takes a village to raise a husband, too. And modern society has largely abdicated from the job. "Good husband material doesn't occur naturally, but is instead the product (in part) of socialization, development, and social control," Mr. Regnerus writes. "n the domain of sex and relationships men will act as nobly as women collectively demand."
Time to get our act together, ladies. If we don't, they won't either.


Ive Been predicting this for years


That's a pretty sexist article in its assumption that men only want sex and no man wants marriage. If we put gender stereotypes aside, too many women just want cheap sex too and that probably scares more serious men away from them.

Sex follows the same laws of supply and demand as other commodities. If you want to increase the rate of marriage and growth of families, make fornication a fine-able offence.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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make fornication a fine-able offence.
Just who is going to police that and how? When you figure that out you might want to consider just how many ways that plan violates everyone's rights in so many ways. Basically you're a complete idiot for even suggesting such a ludicrous thing.
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
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Just who is going to police that and how? When you figure that out you might want to consider just how many ways that plan violates everyone's rights in so many ways. Basically you're a complete idiot for even suggesting such a ludicrous thing.

We wouldn't need to police it and so for the most part it would continue behind closed doors. That said, people might be more cautious about having sex in public parks or in bawdy houses or with someone who might have a reason to later accuse him of rape etc. It would at least greatly reduce more flagrant instances of it and that would already be a plus. to take an example, you want to have sex with someone and that person hesitates. Right away you'll start thinking what if that person has regrets the next day and so accuses you of raping her. Now you have an incentive to get very, very clear consent.

sexual coercion reduces marriage and birth rates too. People who are sexually abused often develop a phobia of the opposite sex at least in more intimate relationships.

And as for my being an idiot, that's a complete non sequitur and an ad hominem.
 

Tecumsehsbones

Hall of Fame Member
Mar 18, 2013
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Miss Wentes sounds like an uptight, very sexist old maid who is bitter over something some man did to her and that she can't get laid in a free and open sex market.
That was mean.

100% dead-on correct, but mean.

Ive Been predicting this for years
I can understand why you're bitter. All that free cooze running around, and you're jerking off in the basement.

The only 100% effective form of birth control is your personality.

If we put gender stereotypes aside
Not possible for someone who isn't capable of thinking in any other terms.
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
We wouldn't need to police it and so for the most part it would continue behind closed doors. That said, people might be more cautious about having sex in public parks or in bawdy houses or with someone who might have a reason to later accuse him of rape etc. It would at least greatly reduce more flagrant instances of it and that would already be a plus. to take an example, you want to have sex with someone and that person hesitates. Right away you'll start thinking what if that person has regrets the next day and so accuses you of raping her. Now you have an incentive to get very, very clear consent.
So we waste a bunch of time and money to pass legislation that we do not intend to enforce? Or even worse only enforce it on a select basis?

BTW there is a big difference between regretting a sexual escapade and rape. Any person who falsely accuses another of rape should be liable to the exact same penalty as if they committed the rape.
sexual coercion reduces marriage and birth rates too. People who are sexually abused often develop a phobia of the opposite sex at least in more intimate relationships.
Really? We're talking about consenting adult sex being made illegal (your idea), nothing to do with coercion or rape or force (all of which is already illegal).
And as for my being an idiot, that's a complete non sequitur and an ad hominem.
Apparently it's quite true and correct also....:roll:
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
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So we waste a bunch of time and money to pass legislation that we do not intend to enforce? Or even worse only enforce it on a select basis?

BTW there is a big difference between regretting a sexual escapade and rape. Any person who falsely accuses another of rape should be liable to the exact same penalty as if they committed the rape.

Really? We're talking about consenting adult sex being made illegal (your idea), nothing to do with coercion or rape or force (all of which is already illegal).

Apparently it's quite true and correct also....:roll:

Let's take sexual-assault laws as an example. Anonymous surveys reveal much higher rates of sexual assault than police reports do. This is because the police do not pursue unless a person makes a complaint or an officer happens upon the crime in a park or something. This does not mean they are not enforcing it, but rather that they are enforcing it in an economically efficient manner without running around trying to catch people in the act.

We could treat fornication in the same way. Unless a person is having sex in a public park in plain sight of CCTV cameras, in a bawdy house, or with someone who then reports him to the police, he has little to worry about since fornication is not that easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A man who sleeps his side of his girlfriend's bed in his day clothes one night while she sleeps on her dies in her pajamas does not prove that they committed fornication. Again, it's not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. However, it's easier to prove than assault and so can serve as a deterrent. And honestly, a man who sleeps with a woman who then reports him to the police deserves punishment. What was doing sleeping with a random woman who would then make a rape accusation against him?
 

Angstrom

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Its entertaining to watch our society destroy itself without anyone understanding what’s happening
 

MHz

Time Out
Mar 16, 2007
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Considering what is available for both men and women short term affairs might be the best way to do it. (moral characteristics rather than body type)
 

PoliticalNick

The Troll Bashing Troll
Mar 8, 2011
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Edson, AB
Let's take sexual-assault laws as an example. Anonymous surveys reveal much higher rates of sexual assault than police reports do. This is because the police do not pursue unless a person makes a complaint or an officer happens upon the crime in a park or something. This does not mean they are not enforcing it, but rather that they are enforcing it in an economically efficient manner without running around trying to catch people in the act
Soooo much stupidity in just one post.
We could treat fornication in the same way. Unless a person is having sex in a public park in plain sight of CCTV cameras, in a bawdy house, or with someone who then reports him to the police, he has little to worry about since fornication is not that easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
It already is illegal to have sex in public in most places.
A man who sleeps his side of his girlfriend's bed in his day clothes one night while she sleeps on her dies in her pajamas does not prove that they committed fornication. Again, it's not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt.
However, it's easier to prove than assault and so can serve as a deterrent.
Without a credible witness you can't prove anything. The other partner is not credible because they would be guilty of fornication too. Or does your asinine law only apply to males? (HINT: that would be unconstitutional) Did making prostitution illegal serve as a deterrent?
And honestly, a man who sleeps with a woman who then reports him to the police deserves punishment. What was doing sleeping with a random woman who would then make a rape accusation against him?
Why is she making false rape accusations? What punishment should she receive for making false allegations? What about her sleeping with a random guy? Shouldn't she be charged with fornication also?

You cannot make sex illegal without either criminalizing the entire population or facing a full-scale rebellion of the masses. My guess would be blood in the streets if any government tried to make sex illegal.

As long as he consents.

Make up you pathetic little mind. Can adults consent to sex or is sex going to be illegal? You can't actually have it both ways sunshine!
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
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Soooo much stupidity in just one post.

It already is illegal to have sex in public in most places.

Without a credible witness you can't prove anything. The other partner is not credible because they would be guilty of fornication too. Or does your asinine law only apply to males? (HINT: that would be unconstitutional) Did making prostitution illegal serve as a deterrent?

Why is she making false rape accusations? What punishment should she receive for making false allegations? What about her sleeping with a random guy? Shouldn't she be charged with fornication also?

You cannot make sex illegal without either criminalizing the entire population or facing a full-scale rebellion of the masses. My guess would be blood in the streets if any government tried to make sex illegal.

fornication would require willing participation. If X accuses Y of sexual assault, the prosecution fails to prove sexual assault, but Y admits to willingly participate in the sexual act, then Y is guilty of fornication. As for X, it would depend on if he can be proved to have been a willing participant too. Since he'd be accusing Y of sexual assault though, then he'll probably be saying he was coerced, and so not a willing participant and so not guilty of fornication unless he could be proved to have been a willing participant.

False accusations are just as difficult to prove as sexual assault. A person who trusts that he can sleep around and somehow get an assailant locked up if he gets assaulted is as stupid as the one who sleeps around and thinks he can get his false accuser locked up if he becomes a victim of a false accusation. Both are difficult to prove. So the smart one avoids putting himself in a position that increases the risk of assault or of a false accusation in the first place. So let's put the responsibility on potential victims to take responsibility for themselves. Of course I'm not talking about people having their drinks spiked or who get brutally attacked for no reason, but those who are stupid enough to put themselves at risk.

Actually, fornication is illegal in some US states, and it serves a useful legal purpose. People can certainly have sex in private even if it's illegal and no one will know. But if they face a rape accusation etc. and the rape can't be proved, then they could still face fornication charges. That provides an effective deterrent against rape.
 

taxslave

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Nov 25, 2008
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Let's take sexual-assault laws as an example. Anonymous surveys reveal much higher rates of sexual assault than police reports do. This is because the police do not pursue unless a person makes a complaint or an officer happens upon the crime in a park or something. This does not mean they are not enforcing it, but rather that they are enforcing it in an economically efficient manner without running around trying to catch people in the act.

We could treat fornication in the same way. Unless a person is having sex in a public park in plain sight of CCTV cameras, in a bawdy house, or with someone who then reports him to the police, he has little to worry about since fornication is not that easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. A man who sleeps his side of his girlfriend's bed in his day clothes one night while she sleeps on her dies in her pajamas does not prove that they committed fornication. Again, it's not easy to prove beyond a reasonable doubt. However, it's easier to prove than assault and so can serve as a deterrent. And honestly, a man who sleeps with a woman who then reports him to the police deserves punishment. What was doing sleeping with a random woman who would then make a rape accusation against him?

Why do you have such a problem with adults having consensual sex when and where they feel like it?
 

White_Unifier

Senate Member
Feb 21, 2017
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Why do you have such a problem with adults having consensual sex when and where they feel like it?

A law can have aims other than the obvious ones. To take an example, tobacco advertising is restricted not because tobacco advertising hurts a person't health directly but rather because it can encourage a person to smoke.

In the same way, given how difficult sexual assault is to prove beyond a reasonable doubt, fornication laws could serve as an effective tool in a prosecutor's toolkit. When we consider just how difficult fornication is to prove, a legal-aged man and a legal-aged woman having consensual sex in the privacy of his bedroom should not cause any problem since the police would never know about it in the first place. So it would mostly affect those engaging in more flagrant displays of fornication such as in public or in the case of rape for example where fornication could serve as an alternative crime to prove when the more serious one cannot be proved beyond a reasonable doubt. If you read the statistics, sexual coercion cases are sky-high in North America.