Where do you consider yourself in the political spectrum?

[Senathos]

Re: RE: Where do you consider

Look at their last budget.

And what is really new about the budget, Rev? Nothing ever really changes. Do you ever see the Liberal government make drastic tax cuts as to allow folks to have noticible tax savings. When the Federal government allows folks in some provinces such as Quebec to pay out 50% of their salary to taxes, the budget in my opinion is far left. A good budget will actually have the average taxpayer (both rich and poor) pay substantially less taxes. The government needs to drastically cut spending in strategic areas (ex scrap the gun registry, it won't recover the $2 billion, but at least it'll save the future operating costs).

Look at their support of BMD.

Rev, Canada is completely against the US missile defense program. Martin publically said he will not support it. Everyone knows this. So you're wrong on this one. Thanks for reminding me, not only is the missile defense program for both the US and Canada's benefit, but Canada has decided to back stab the US on this one after misleading the US to thinking they would support the program. Imagine the scenario, terrorists launch a nuclear missile towards Canada, but the US would not be able to shoot it down due to a lack of support from Canada on the program. Too bad.

Canada is clearly far left on this issue. Blindly not supporting a program to benefit Canada in my book is another reason that Canada is out to lunch.

Look at the way they've been supporting Iraq through the back door.

If they really wanted to support the global war on terror, they would have joined the US and coalition forces (UK, Italy, Poland, Australia, Japan ...etc). Not supporting the war in my book puts them to the left.

Look at the way they've refused to back Chavez.

Refused to back Chavez? Rev, Canada has had diplomatic relations with Venezuela for over 50 years (and good relations at that).

Yes, even with it's Human Right violations and abuse of it's native Venezuelan population, Canada has still blindly supported the Venezuelan government.

Read this link for more info...

http://www.international.gc.ca/latinamerica/venezuelarelations-en.asp

Look at their trade policies.

Trade policies? What's so special with Canada's trade policies? Canada rarely imposes any trade sanctions against rogue nations. I can't think of any such sanctions recently.

Look at their pro-corporate economic policies.

Hah. The deal Martin made with the NDP has scrapped the large corporate tax cuts. Supposedly temporarily. When will the corporatinos finally get them? Next year, at the next budget, when the ywere supposed to get next years tax cuts. The government will try and pull a fast one here. Because of this unholy deal with the NDP during their sposorship scandal, they are surely far left on this issue.

Look at their foot-dragging on the legalisation of marijuana.

Foot dragging? The very fact Canada is considering legalizing it makes it far far left. Do you want a bunch of druggies running around your streets, always stoned? Even worse, operating a motor vehicle while under the influence of marijuana.

Look at the way they allow US agents to operate on Canadian soil.

Rev, intelligence agents have been in operating in Canada for decades. They provide intelligence and or security support or other sensitive type operations in areas that Canada can't. It was surely not Martin's government that brought these agents into Canada.

Look at the way they only fund social programs when they are forced to.

When they are forced to? Rev, in Canada it is easy for any able bodied person who's too lazy to work to collect welfare indefinetely. The hard working folks pay taxes so these folks can goof off and live off of social assistance. The Liberals have always been a strong supporter of welfare. Here in the US, if you are able bodied with no dissabilities, you will not get welfare if there is work for you. There are "NOW HIRING" signs all over, so an excuse of lack of work usually doesn't cut it.

You must have forgotten Martin's $200billion tax cut package back a few years ago. As far as supporting the war on terror, a large amount of Canadian troops are in Afghanistan as we speak. I think (as a Liberal mind you) that we should have gone to Iraq, and Martin secretely did too; remember that Larry King Live interview he did? The corporate tax cuts are coming, they weren't effective until 2008 anyways. Now we have some upcoming personal tax cuts to add to that.

 

[Nascar_James]

Re: Where do you consider yourself in the political spectrum

Oh Nero, Nero, Nero. Hmmm...maybe we should change the N to a Z.

I've already debunked most of your claims in another thread, but you seem to be a slow learner, so we'll run through it again.

And what is really new about the budget, Rev?

Harper loved the budget when it came out. He said himself that it was like a Conservative budget. Then he decided he could win an election.

Rev, Canada is completely against the US missile defense program. Martin publically said he will not support it. Everyone knows this.

What everyone who was paying attention knows is that Martin wanted very badly to support BMD. He only backed down because poll after poll told him he had to. He still snuck it in the backdoor though.

You should really learn about issues before you try to discuss them, Nero.

If they really wanted to support the global war on terror, they would have joined the US and coalition forces (UK, Italy, Poland, Australia, Japan ...etc). Not supporting the war in my book puts them to the left.

They really wanted to. The rumours that Martin wanted to go to Iraq persist. Fortunately his ass wasn't in the chair yet.

He has aided and abetted Bush on every turn he could though.

By the way, don't try to tell me or any other thinking human being that Iraq had anything to do with your president's fake war on terror. It was an illegal invasion for oil.

Refused to back Chavez? Rev, Canada has had diplomatic relations with Venezuela for over 50 years (and good relations at that).

Grow up, Zero. Martin has been absolutely silent on the issue.

Trade policies? What's so special with Canada's trade policies?

Do your homework. For once in your damned life. Please.

Hah. The deal Martin made with the NDP has scrapped the large corporate tax cuts.

If you had even the vaguest clue about politics, you'd know that's the way things work in minority governments. More than that, if your head wasn't jammed so far up your ass and you would have been following things from the beginning, you'd know that Harper had the budget he wanted until he decided to bring the government down.

Foot dragging? The very fact Canada is considering legalizing it makes it far far left.

:roll: Funny it was legal 100 years ago. Things are generally considered to have been much more conservative back then. George Washington used to smoke it with your other founding fathers too. I guess your founding fathers were "far, far left" though. Maybe that's why they didn't support your insane assertion that the US is a Christian country.

Rev, intelligence agents have been in operating in Canada for decades.

The DEA and FTA have offices here now, Zero. They've arrested Canadian citizens on Canadian soil on trumped up, politically based charges. The fecking Texas Rangers were up here teaching the RCMP inVancouver how to violoate people's rights and conduct illegal searches. That hasn't been going on for decades. Of course, if you knew anything, you'd already have known that.

When they are forced to? Rev, in Canada it is easy for any able bodied person who's too lazy to work to collect welfare indefinetely.

Feck you're an idiot. Welfare is administered by the provinces.

Rev, I think you are out to lunch on this one. You've continously rebuked my arguments based on what Paul Martin would have done if he could do things his way (ex. missile defense, coorporate tax cuts, war in Iraq ..etc). I did not say Paul Martin is far far left, I said the Liberal Party of Canada today with it's current policies is far far left. I know how Paul Martin thinks, that is why I emphasized the Liberal party and had bolded the word "current" on my other post regarding this issue.

 

[Reverend Blair]

Re: Where do you consider yourself in the political spectrum

How long were you stuck in the birth canal for, Nero?

You've continously rebuked my arguments based on what Paul Martin would have done if he could do things his way (ex. missile defense, coorporate tax cuts, war in Iraq ..etc).

I haven't rebuked your arguments, I've decimated them. Paul Martin sets policy for the Liberal Party. He is not known as an overly democratic party leader, but the party knew he was right-leaning when the elected him leader.

He had no say in the illegal invasion of Iraq because Chretien said no. By the time Martin came to power it was already apparent that the Bush administration had lied about everything.

He had to back down on missile defence because he was headed to the polls and over 70% of Canadians hated the idea because it was starting a new arms race and doesn't work. Martin did manage to slip our cooperation in through the back door though.

He gave the corporate tax cuts. He had to take them out when Layton forced him to do what the majority of Canadians wanted, but they'll be back in next year and likely take effect on the same schedule as they originally had.

I'll try to get this through to you, Nero. You aren't very good at listening and seem to know nothing about politics, but let me explain the Liberal Party to you.

They are supported by corporations. They run from the left but govern from either the right or the centre. Whether they govern from the right or the centre is largely determined by the leader. The leaders they choose tend to shift towards the centre when the opposition is moderate, then towards the right when the opposition moves right. They do that without varying their election platforms much. Those platforms tend to be stolen mostly from the NDP.

Under Chretien the Liberals were centrist with a lot right-wing influence, especially when Martin was Finance Minister.

Under Martin, the party is basically moderate-right (pretty much where Mulroney's PCs were) and comparable to your Democratic Party.

Now a little bit on world politics for you, Nero. Your country is generally considered an anomally because your two main parties are so right-wing. Most countries have at least some representation in government from third parties, giving more of the population a voice (Note "third party" does not refer to the number of parties or the positions, but rather the term "third party politics". There may be any number of third parties representing any number of alternative viewpoints. It's called democracy.). Most countries have a right-leaning party, a left-leaning party, and a centrist party. Most democracies also have some form of proportional representation.

People from the US who insist on trying to tell others how to run their politics almost always end up looking like completely inept fools. Part of this is because they erroneously believe that "liberal" is a dirty word. Part of it is because their own political system has become so corrupt and controlled by private interests that it bears little resemblance to reality. Most of it is because the Americans who insist on trying to tell others how to run their countries and, by extension, how politics work, are invariably the most ill-informed and ignorant examples of the US citizenry.

 

[#juan]

Re: Where do you consider yourself in the political spectrum

Just a little aside here,

There are still seemingly intelligent Americans talking about the missile defence system when virtually every scientist worth his/her salt in the world knows that such a system is unworkable. The technology simply doesn't exist to make one 18,000 mph missile hit another 18,000mph missile.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Where do you consider

That's very true, Juan. The disturbing thing is that the fact that virtually every physicist on earth saying that it won't work never deterred the US, never deterred Martin and Harper, and, worst of all, never deterred Russia and China from developing systems to defeat it.

 

[#juan]

Re: Where do you consider yourself in the political spectrum

This is what screws any missile defense system Rev

Russia Smartens Up
This is a bit of a political piece, so feel free to pass it by. It's my reaction to a piece of news on CBC.ca today. In short, welcome to the new nuclear arms race. The difference is this time the Russians have smartened up, will the Americans follow suit?

To summarize the content in the CBC article, the Russians have nearly completed two major revisions of how their ICBMs work:

1. the reentry vehicles are steerable and
2. so are the rockets during the ballistic portion of their flight.

This is important, because it shows that the Russians have learned their lesson.

What lesson? Well, to boil the entire collapse of the Soviet Union down into something I'm willing to type: the Americans under Reagan challenged the Soviets to a technological arms race that the communist economy couldn't match. Specifically, Star Wars missile defence et al. The Soviets tried to compete on missile defence, and bankrupted themselves.

The part they have learned is that it's not about defence. In the ongoing race of shields vs. guns, guns always win. There is no such thing as a bulletproof vest, and attempts to make one end up looking like goofy bear-proof suits. I don't know for sure, but I bet the few million the Russians have spent on improving their ICBMs negates a few billion dollars worth of research and development the Americans have done. The difference between the effort for offence and that for defence is probably one or two orders of magnitude.

The only way to ensure safety from nuclear ICBMs is for there not to be any. Missile defence shield stuff is a fool's dream, and an expensive one at that. The question is whether or not the Yanks will figure it out sooner or later. Will it be when every nation which has a rocketry program (Russia, China, India, Japan, etc.) can "beat it" with ease? Or will the Americans bankrupt themselves trying?

Why do I care? Because nuclear war is unwinnable, and it will stay that way, but if one side or another starts to think that it is winnable, then bad things can happen.

The futility of nuclear war is called MAD: Mutual Assured Destruction, and it kept everybody alive and well through the 20th Century. It also is an excellent starting point for the elimination of ICBMs: if both sides know they are essentially worthless, diplomacy can start the process of dismantling them.

 

[Reverend Blair]

RE: Where do you consider

Bush clearly doesn't believe in MAD though. That's the problem...we have an administration that thinks they can win a nuclear war.

The Russians made their nukes steerable. I'm not sure what the Chinese idea is...I heard decoys. BMD has got a lot to do with the Chinese space program advancing and being so public too. They want to be damned sure that if there are lasers (for guidance or otherwise), missiles or "rods from god" in orbit they can take them out.

 

[El Barto]

I consider myself the one getting screwed by the promises made

 

[crit13]

It is a fact that the CPC's equivalent in the US is the Democratic Party.

Canada does not have a true right wing party.

To NDP supporters, unless you tax everyone 95% and give it all to the poor, you are a fanatic right wing zealot.

 

[westmanguy]

I am Conservative, because its the only thing thats close to the right.

Since the Reform party and PC party joined to create the CPC, the CPC is the ONLY right-center option in this nation.

The left has things going against them. For one lefties are divided between NDP, Liberals, Green, and sometime BLOC.

The right has no dividing party (Christian Heritage Party does not count, lol)

So, the flaw to the system, which nicely benefits me and the right, is their is more left-leaning people then right leaning people, but the left votes in 2-3 different directions, and the right votes in 1 direction.

See where I am coming from? The CPC pulls through, and the left become divided between NDP, Liberals, and Green.

So lefties, if you want to be smart, vote Liberal, and stop splitting your vote up and giving my people the government!

Actually I take back, that the Green party is left. Enviroment is not really political, and interesting fact, Elizabeth May of the Green Party is against abortion!

So, I don't see the Green Party as a leftist party, but a take action on the enviroment NOW party.

Anyways NDP in the latest polls have gone down to around 15%... I never cared for 'ol Jack.

Also Nascar/Nero, the Democratic party in the USA has done a 180 since the days of Clinton.. that party is leaning more and more left every day. Wouldn't compare the CURRENT dem. party to the CPC.

So the left is divided, and the right is united giving the right the gov!

Another general question: Do you vote out of spite of a party you hate, or vote for a party you like?

Its a mix for me, I hate the Libs. and I like the Cons., so it falls neither way for me.

 

[sanctus]

I'm not trying to "get at you" West, I'm just curious what you feel the point of all these polls to be?

 

[westmanguy]

umm.. I did not make this thread, and did not create the poll in this thread.

Not understanding you...

 

[westmanguy]

OMGosh... sanctus you have to explain this to me.

How can you as a Roman Catholic, a Roman Catholic Priest, vote for the Liberal Party of Canada.

This is the same party that supports a woman's choice to abort her unborn child.
This is the same party that supports 2 men or 2 women getting married.
This is the same party that takes many secular views.

How can you, vote for them?

I don't understand how any person of strong religious conviction can vote for this party...

:kermit:

 

[unspoken]

Here's my perspective...

If this was 5-6 years ago, you could probably classify me as someone who would be a member of the PC party. Now, I support the Conservatives although I do not agree with a few stances that the party has previously taken(but really, who can say they agree 100% of the time with their party of choice).

For those who may wonder why I wouldn't go Liberal, the answer is simple. I wouldn't be able to hold my nose hard enough to make that X...I'd have to cut it clean off.

 

[Liberalman]

As a Progressive Conservative supporter and the forceful takeover by the new Reform/Conservative party I am a true blue Liberal.

The new Conservative party is too radical for me and besides I am allergic to the Conservative muzzle.

I just have to wonder how many supporters of the Communist party of Canada joined the new Conservative party.

 

[El Barto]

Me anti-Bloc, anti-PQ, anything else is up for grabs, Would like to vote for someone i liked.

 

[westmanguy]

Harper is likeable!

 

[tamarin]

I vote local. I vote the man. I'm an Eastern Ontario sovereigntist. We just don't get the play we deserve in the media.

 

[Tweek]

I'll be voting CPC untill the other parties change their position on gun control, another party emerges which is a viable alternative, or the CPC proves themselves to be as crooked as the previous Liberal administration.

 

[talloola]

Could someone explain the personality of "The Canadian Action Party".

At this point in my life, I am considering "dropping" out of addressing any party at all. I'm just going
to wander off into the sunset, and smell the flowers. When I think of all the energy I have put into
trying to pick a party in Canada to vote for, it now seems a complete waste of time. You guys go
ahead, be my guest, I'm throwing in the towel, (maybe).

I'll think about it.