What should Canada give up in new NAFTA

[White_Unifier]

Right or wrong, do you really think this
is going to happen?

Hard to say. If a US farmer feels that it's worth the investment, at least some may enter the Canadian market. If none of them are willing to meet the Canadian standard, then the dairy clause becomes purely theoretical and Canadians will keep buying Canadian milk. It's up to the US farmers to decide. That's now out of Canada's hands.

 

[Kreskin]

Ron, give them 60 days notice. If they want to break up the USMCA for that, well they could do that anyway, whether in the agreement or not. Seems like another non-starter.

 

[Ron in Regina]

Ron, give them 60 days notice. If they want to break up the USMCA for that, well they could do that anyway, whether in the agreement or not. Seems like another non-starter.

As a sovereign nation, we should have told
them to go F**K themselves on that point. I
believe we surrendered too much on that one
point alone. As a puppet state we can ask the
permission to (give 60 days notice of intention)
even enter into talks with another nation on trade.

It just feels very wrong to me.What if, hat in hand,
we ask permission (give 60 days notice of intention)
and are told, "Nope! No soup for you if you do so."
Isn't this a step away from adulthood as a nation?

 

[Ron in Regina]

non market country is one that is determined not to operate on a market economy - meaning the cost of goods from that country do not reflect actual costs.

it is a sham since there is no such thing as a market economy and never has been

That's interesting. So a country with Huge Agricultural
subsidies would be considered a non-market country?

 

[Ron in Regina]

Sorry, so a country with Huge Agricultural subsidies
would be considered a non-market country if its
producers used the subsidies to sell their wares for
less than the actual cost without the subsidies being
involved?

 

[Hoid]

There are no market economies and never have been and never will be.

 

[Ron in Regina]

There are no market economies and never have been and never will be.

non market country is one that is determined not to operate on a market economy - meaning the cost of goods from that country do not reflect actual costs.

it is a sham since there is no such thing as a market economy and never has been

So, why do you believe that clause is
in the USMCA? To what end?

 

[White_Unifier]

I absolutely agree with this. I do oppose supply management and do support open markets, but that does not mean that we don't impose the same standards on foreign goods as we do on Canadian ones. Sure we can let Us milk into Canada on the condition that it meet Canadian standards. In other words, a US farmer who wants to sell to Canada will need to get appropriate certification to show that he meets that standard. That's not the same as protectionism: that's just imposing the same standards on imports as we do on Canadian-made products. We should not confuse the two and I'm happy to see someone else on here who understands that distinction.

I see Walter disagrees with the above judging from his thumbs down. Mind explaining?

 

[White_Unifier]

As a sovereign nation, we should have told
them to go F**K themselves on that point. I
believe we surrendered too much on that one
point alone. As a puppet state we can ask the
permission to (give 60 days notice of intention)
even enter into talks with another nation on trade.

It just feels very wrong to me.What if, hat in hand,
we ask permission (give 60 days notice of intention)
and are told, "Nope! No soup for you if you do so."
Isn't this a step away from adulthood as a nation?

There is some good news. I think Trump overlooked a minor little loophole. We don't need to 'negotiate' to unilaterally drop tariffs and quotas. I'm not aware that the USMCA says anything about that.

 

[White_Unifier]

Sorry, so a country with Huge Agricultural subsidies
would be considered a non-market country if its
producers used the subsidies to sell their wares for
less than the actual cost without the subsidies being
involved?

To be honest though, if American taxpayers want to subsidize what Canadians buy, we should let them.

In fact, every now and then, Canada could ask the US to subsidize industries in rotation. For example, the government of Canada could ask the US to crazily subsidize its clothing industry next year. Then Canada could advertize it to Canadians telling us that next year's the time for us to fill our wardrobes. The year after that, ask the US to subsidize its bicycle and ski and snowshoe industry. The year after that, its kitchenware industry, the year after that, it's furniture industry.

That way, Canadians would always get the biggest bang for the dollar. Of course Canadians would soon stop buying anything from the US except when it's on special

 

[Ron in Regina]

To be honest though, if American taxpayers want to subsidize what Canadians buy, we should let them.

In fact, every now and then, Canada could ask the US to subsidize industries in rotation. For example, the government of Canada could ask the US to crazily subsidize its clothing industry next year. Then Canada could advertize it to Canadians telling us that next year's the time for us to fill our wardrobes. The year after that, ask the US to subsidize its bicycle and ski and snowshoe industry. The year after that, its kitchenware industry, the year after that, it's furniture industry.

That way, Canadians would always get the biggest bang for the dollar. Of course Canadians would soon stop buying anything from the US except when it's on special

.....and lose our own industries producing the
same items unless we also subsidize them.

 

[White_Unifier]

.....and lose our own industries producing the
same items unless we also subsidize them.

If we don't produce anything that the US wants to buy, then we won't be able to afford anything the US produces no matter how much it subsidizes it. The US cannot subsidize everything. If must tax une industry to subsidize another. In other words, Canada would then always enjoy an advantage over the US' unsubsidized industries.

You might ask, what if the US borrows the money to subsidize all of its industries? Well, then Canadians can lend to the US and at a high interest rate to boot. Meanwhile, the US would be reeling under high interest rates. as for everything being cheaper, if we can't import anything to the US, the CAD would fall in value and so we couldn't afford to buy US products anyway. At the end of the day, the market always finds a way.

Hong Kong has tried unilateral free trade and they're filthy rich compared to Canada. Think about it.

 

[Kreskin]

As a sovereign nation, we should have told
them to go F**K themselves on that point. I
believe we surrendered too much on that one
point alone. As a puppet state we can ask the
permission to (give 60 days notice of intention)
even enter into talks with another nation on trade.

It just feels very wrong to me.What if, hat in hand,
we ask permission (give 60 days notice of intention)
and are told, "Nope! No soup for you if you do so."
Isn't this a step away from adulthood as a nation?

I think they dont want foreign goods dumped on them via the Canadian border. In the end either party can leave anytime. I just don't see it as a big deal.

 

[Twin_Moose]

Why Canada likely just gave the U.S. and Mexico a say over its own trade talks with China

Buried in throes of the updated free trade deal between Canada, the United States and Mexico, is a clause that some are concerned could pose a threat not only to Canada's ability to conduct trade with China, but to its national independence as a whole.
What is Clause 32?
Clause 32, which sits third from the bottom in the United States-Mexico-Canada Agreement, states that "at least three months prior to commencing negotiations, a party shall inform the other parties of its intention to commence free trade agreement negotiations with a non-market country."

Click the link for more

 

[EagleSmack]

http://bcdairy.ca/milk/articles/does-milk-contain-growth-hormones-and-antibiotics

http://albertamilk.com/ask-dairy-farmer/ive-started-buying-organic-milk-based-on-the-assum/

http://www.consumerhealth.org/articles/display.cfm?ID=19991128221446

That ought to render American milk as inadmissible into Canada. It has nothing to do with supply management. It us a health issue and American milk is tainted with hormone residues currently banned in both Canada and in the E.U. (but A-OK in America).

Enjoy our milk... millions of other Canadians now will.


Trudeau blinked.

 

[Mowich]

Enjoy our milk... millions of other Canadians now will.

Thank the Universe that I source mine locally.

 

[EagleSmack]

Thank the Universe that I source mine locally.

You live in a rural or suburban area? It is good you can do that.

 

[Mowich]

You live in a rural or suburban area? It is good you can do that.

Very rural, Eagle and you are right - I consider myself most fortunate to be able to buy milk from a neighbor. Nothing like being able to see the source of your milk first hand; visit the farm and see that the cows are well cared for; be shown what they are fed and have one's questions answered concerning any non-food substances the cows are given.

 

[White_Unifier]

Our condo's too small to house a cow. But then again, we don't drink milk anyway.

 

[Curious Cdn]

Enjoy our milk... millions of other Canadians now will.
Trudeau blinked.

Your milk is poisoned and is not acceptible on the Canadian or European markets (the new Axis of Evil,you will notice). The Asians might drink it, depending on the country ... (depending on their lactose tolerance!)

Bovine growth hormone in milk... SUPERSIZE YOUR CHILDREN!!

When's THAT going to happen in the good 'ole USA, you say?