What ought to be Canada official language policy?

[Machjo]

In China people are communicating in over 100 different languages but they have only one official language Mandarin and everyone is happy .Oh, they also have one more thing ....maturity .

According to statistics that I've read, only about 54% of Chinese are functional in Mandarin. I'd met Inner Mongolians and Uighurs whose Mandarin was poorer than mine, and my Mandarin is far below mastery. I might be fluent in the basic language, for daily conversation, basic daily tasks, and a quite a bit more than that too. But there is still alot I can't understand. So if my Mandarin was better than theirs, and mine wasn't good, you can imagine how much access they have to the economic resources that the Han have access to.

 

[JLM]

Which do you think would be preferable for Canada?

1. Official Bilingualism (i.e. what we have now), costing us an estimated 16 billion dollars and only about 15% of Canadians knowing both English and French.

2. Regional monolingualism and individual monolingualism, having each province and territory have but one official language, and students being free to not learn a second language if they don't want to.

3. Regional monolingualism and individual bilingualism, having each province and territory have but one official language, and students being free to choose their second language, but compelled to learn a second language.

4. Federal monolingualism and individual bilingualism, whereby the federal government adopts, revises, or creates a common second language, designed to be easy to learn, to be taught to children in all schools across the country, this policy to be implemented gradually as teachers for the new language become available.

5. Other answer.

Being a democratic and diplomatic kind of a guy, I elected option 5. I think in Canada you should be allowed to speak any language you like- if you want to be understood and get service you should speak English.

 

[Machjo]

Being a democratic and diplomatic kind of a guy, I elected option 5. I think in Canada you should be allowed to speak any language you like- if you want to be understood and get service you should speak English.

Wow, that's like saying I'm open to any language policy as long as it's English.

 

[JLM]

Wow, that's like saying I'm open to any language policy as long as it's English.

I don't think so. First of all, I think people who come to Canada can speak any language they want, Hindu, Sanscrit, Finn, Portuguese, whatever. If I go to Portugal and expect to get a reply and service, I would speak Portuguese. The second point is on the Plains of Abraham in 1759, the English under Wolfe, defeated the French under Montcalm. As far as speaking French goes, that should have been the end of it. If that isn't bad enough, the French even make it illegal to put up a sign in any language but French in La Belle Province.

 

[Tyr]

Being a democratic and diplomatic kind of a guy, I elected option 5. I think in Canada you should be allowed to speak any language you like- if you want to be understood and get service you should speak English.

Sounds a bit like Henry Ford when he said of the Model A "You can have any colour car you want as long as it's black"

 

[Tyr]

I don't think so. First of all, I think people who come to Canada can speak any language they want, Hindu, Sanscrit, Finn, Portuguese, whatever. If I go to Portugal and expect to get a reply and service, I would speak Portuguese. The second point is on the Plains of Abraham in 1759, the English under Wolfe, defeated the French under Montcalm. As far as speaking French goes, that should have been the end of it. If that isn't bad enough, the French even make it illegal to put up a sign in any language but French in La Belle Province.

As far as speaking French goes, that should have been the end of it.

You are entitled to your opinions JLM, fortunately the law doesn't agree with you (nor do over 7 million Canadians)

 

[Machjo]

I don't think so. First of all, I think people who come to Canada can speak any language they want, Hindu, Sanscrit, Finn, Portuguese, whatever. If I go to Portugal and expect to get a reply and service, I would speak Portuguese. The second point is on the Plains of Abraham in 1759, the English under Wolfe, defeated the French under Montcalm. As far as speaking French goes, that should have been the end of it. If that isn't bad enough, the French even make it illegal to put up a sign in any language but French in La Belle Province.

I fully oppose the excesses of Bill 101, just to clarity there. But let's face it. English is not an easy language to learn, and this is not a prolem unique to the Quebecois. Even today, once we move away from Southern Quebec, most Quebecers can't speak English. Do they not have the right to speak to local government in French?

In Nunavut according to the 2006 census, 8% of Nunavummiut know neither English nor French (this might explain why the terrotory has 4 official languages). Do they not have a right to government services too?

I can see only two ways of guaranteeing democratic rights to a people:

1. Make all languages official. or,

2. make sure all can learn a common second language.

From a fiscal standpoint, it might be a tad expensive for the Federal government to adopt four official languages and guarantee the freedom of Nunavummiut to travel across the country while still having access to government services in their own language.

One way of killing two birds with one stone (ensure democratic access but at low cost) would be to require everyone to learn a common second language that all could learn with ease.

 

[VanIsle]

I don't think so. First of all, I think people who come to Canada can speak any language they want, Hindu, Sanscrit, Finn, Portuguese, whatever. If I go to Portugal and expect to get a reply and service, I would speak Portuguese. The second point is on the Plains of Abraham in 1759, the English under Wolfe, defeated the French under Montcalm. As far as speaking French goes, that should have been the end of it. If that isn't bad enough, the French even make it illegal to put up a sign in any language but French in La Belle Province.

I think Canada should to some degree stay the way it is. Had it been a law that all of us were taught to speak both French and English I would fully agree with us being bi-lingual. It's too late now. Here we are in the Western provinces in particular with french foisted upon us with every label we purchase. I agree with JLM in that I could accept that, if Quebec agreed to label everything in english. They not only don't do it - they refuse to do it. I no longer want to accomodate them anymore than I wish to add in any more official languages. I don't agree necessarily that if for example, you go to a restaurant, you should be able to order in english only. That's like telling tourists they are not welcome here. I do agree though that if you are going to take up permanent residence in this country, then one of your priorities should be to learn the language - english. I would like to see an end to the practice of doubling up with both languages on the things we purchase. I still maintain it is a dangerous practice when it comes to things like medicines where adding both languages means the writing is so tiny it becomes next to impossible to read.

 

[Tyr]

I think Canada should to some degree stay the way it is. Had it been a law that all of us were taught to speak both French and English I would fully agree with us being bi-lingual. It's too late now. Here we are in the Western provinces in particular with french foisted upon us with every label we purchase. I agree with JLM in that I could accept that, if Quebec agreed to label everything in english. They not only don't do it - they refuse to do it. I no longer want to accomodate them anymore than I wish to add in any more official languages. I don't agree necessarily that if for example, you go to a restaurant, you should be able to order in english only. That's like telling tourists they are not welcome here. I do agree though that if you are going to take up permanent residence in this country, then one of your priorities should be to learn the language - english. I would like to see an end to the practice of doubling up with both languages on the things we purchase. I still maintain it is a dangerous practice when it comes to things like medicines where adding both languages means the writing is so tiny it becomes next to impossible to read.

It is and was the law when I went to high school 34 yrs ago

 

[VanIsle]

I fully oppose the excesses of Bill 101, just to clarity there. But let's face it. English is not an easy language to learn, and this is not a prolem unique to the Quebecois. Even today, once we move away from Southern Quebec, most Quebecers can't speak English. Do they not have the right to speak to local government in French?

In Nunavut according to the 2006 census, 8% of Nunavummiut know neither English nor French (this might explain why the terrotory has 4 official languages). Do they not have a right to government services too?

I can see only two ways of guaranteeing democratic rights to a people:

1. Make all languages official. or,

2. make sure all can learn a common second language.

From a fiscal standpoint, it might be a tad expensive for the Federal government to adopt four official languages and guarantee the freedom of Nunavummiut to travel across the country while still having access to government services in their own language.

One way of killing two birds with one stone (ensure democratic access but at low cost) would be to require everyone to learn a common second language that all could learn with ease.

I think that since we opted to make Nunavut a Territory, it is our responsibility to see that they are taught English as a second language. Just like in Western Canada, most of us do not speak french and never will, the chances of us learning the Nunavut language are even less. I agree that as a part of this country, they should have the same rights as anyone else and unless they know english, chances of that are pretty low unless they are taught the language of the country they are now legally a part of. It's only fair to them that we do so. We are dealing with many different languages in this country and we all know that english is already the main language. I don't think any language is easy for anyone to learn as a common language - especially since most of this country is already familiar with at least some english. Britain and the United States speak english. It's too wide spread to try to change it.

 

[Machjo]

What do you mean by 'our nation' Tyr? As I'd mentioned before, there are entire regions spanning hundreds of kilometers in radius in Quebec where most people do not know English. Unless you consider Quebec a separate nation?

Now if what you mean is simply that, for the sake of efficiency, that governments should have but one official language, then maybe I could accept that as long as the federal government, and perhaps even provincial and territorial governments, be extremely decentralized, with much more power going into the hands of local governments so as to ensure that locals can have access to services in their own languages.

 

[Machjo]

I think that since we opted to make Nunavut a Territory, it is our responsibility to see that they are taught English as a second language. Just like in Western Canada, most of us do not speak french and never will, the chances of us learning the Nunavut language are even less. I agree that as a part of this country, they should have the same rights as anyone else and unless they know english, chances of that are pretty low unless they are taught the language of the country they are now legally a part of. It's only fair to them that we do so. We are dealing with many different languages in this country and we all know that english is already the main language. I don't think any language is easy for anyone to learn as a common language - especially since most of this country is already familiar with at least some english. Britain and the United States speak english. It's too wide spread to try to change it.

But Canada is huge. This is why many fail to learn English. English is by no means an easy language to learn. You might take it for granted, but try to explain to someone how to pronounce 'gh'. Cough, hiccough, yoghurt, night, rough. Good luck trying to teach any logical rule here. This being the case, it would be much more just to adopt a common easy-to-learn second language for all who want to travel outside their own linguistic area. As for the rest, they can stay monolingual for all I care.

 

[Tyr]

But Canada is huge. This is why many fail to learn English. English is by no means an easy language to learn. You might take it for granted, but try to explain to someone how to pronounce 'gh'. Cough, hiccough, yoghurt, night, rough. Good luck trying to teach any logical rule here. This being the case, it would be much more just to adopt a common easy-to-learn second language for all who want to travel outside their own linguistic area. As for the rest, they can stay monolingual for all I care.

English has always been one of the most difficult languages to learn because it has no set phonetic rules and is a convolution of many other languages (primarily German)

A Spaniard would have an easier time with Mandarin than English and French is one of the easier languages to master

If you can speak French, Spanish, Italian and Portugese are a breeze to learn

 

[china]

Machjo ,

According to statistics that I've read, only about 54% of Chinese are functional in Mandarin. I'd met Inner Mongolians and Uighurs whose Mandarin was poorer than mine, and my Mandarin is far below mastery. I might be fluent in the basic language, for daily conversation, basic daily tasks, and a quite a bit more than that too. But there is still alot I can't understand. So if my Mandarin was better than theirs, and mine wasn't good, you can imagine how much access they have to the economic resources that the Han have access to.

Ni shi dui de .

 

[miniboss]

L. Gilbert said there are no law saying you have to be bilingual, yet in Alberta, the gov't is legislating just that. It will soon be a requirement to have passed a grade 12 level French course in order to graduate. I'm positive this legislation will sharply increase the high school dropout rate. English is the language of business throughout the world, and the majority of high school graduates will never use high school French in their lifetime, so being bilingual shouldn't be a requirement. A lot of people just can't pick up foreign languages, i'm one of them. I've been exposed to a foreign language all my life, 30+ years, and I can't speak or read the language worth crap. Some people just don't have it, and the gov't is willing to punish, otherwise perfectly functional and able people from graduating. Now a days, a grade 12 diploma isn't worth the paper it's written on. Besides, when the economy is booming, all the "help wanted" signs aren't for management, vice president, or president positions, they are for crap jobs, knowing another language, really isn't a concern.

 

[VanIsle]

But Canada is huge. This is why many fail to learn English. English is by no means an easy language to learn. You might take it for granted, but try to explain to someone how to pronounce 'gh'. Cough, hiccough, yoghurt, night, rough. Good luck trying to teach any logical rule here. This being the case, it would be much more just to adopt a common easy-to-learn second language for all who want to travel outside their own linguistic area. As for the rest, they can stay monolingual for all I care.

I never said it would be easy. I cannot speak any other language. Obviously I recognize some french words and we all know some french words and a word or so in some other languages like Spanish, and maybe even a word or two of russian. My brother was an ESL teacher and he said it was surprizing how quickly the young population picks up the english language. They in turn help out with their parents.

 

[Machjo]

English has always been one of the most difficult languages to learn because it has no set phonetic rules and is a convolution of many other languages (primarily German)

A Spaniard would have an easier time with Mandarin than English and French is one of the easier languages to master

If you can speak French, Spanish, Italian and Portugese are a breeze to learn

If you mean spoken Manadarin, I'll agree that it's grammar is more logical and easier than English overall, albeit more vague too. As for French, it certainly isn't reputed for its ease of learning either. Sure, it's spelling is easier than English, and it has fewer exceptions for the rules (spelling and exceptions are among the main factors that kill successful mastery of English for many), but French grammar and verb conjugation is more difficult than that of English too, albeit more precise.

 

[Machjo]

L. Gilbert said there are no law saying you have to be bilingual, yet in Alberta, the gov't is legislating just that. It will soon be a requirement to have passed a grade 12 level French course in order to graduate.

Paasing a test and being able to use the language in real life are two different things. As far as I'm concerned, a school's authority to make a second language compulsory goes hand in hand with its ability to give students a decent chance of success in the language before the end of their compulsory education. If the school can't guarantee a reasonable chance of success, then as far as I'm concerned, it forfeits its moral right to make it compulsory. The school has a duty to make sure that whatever it teaches the students will likely be of use to them in some form, if not in a job then in personal or cultural grouth, etc. But failure to learn a language bears no fruit, be it cultural or material.

I'm positive this legislation will sharply increase the high school dropout rate.

Possibly. Indeed, understanding of why we are learning something and how it can benefit us is an important contributor to motivation.

English is the language of business throughout the world, and the majority of high school graduates will never use high school French in their lifetime, so being bilingual shouldn't be a requirement.

The growth of English in the world is also menacing other languages. As such, I beleive that everyone has a moral duty to at least try to learn a second language if the opportunity presents itself. Having said that, I'll also acknowledge that a school should make a second languge compulsory ONLY if it can guarantee a reasonable rate of success in the language.

A lot of people just can't pick up foreign languages, i'm one of them. I've been exposed to a foreign language all my life, 30+ years, and I can't speak or read the language worth crap. Some people just don't have it, and the gov't is willing to punish, otherwise perfectly functional and able people from graduating.

I'll acknowledge that some people just don't have the aptitude for second-language learning. This is not unique to native speakers though, and as such I still beleive that native speakers should still make an effort to reach out half way. That's only just. Recognizing that French is way out of most people's league, as is English by the way, it would be beneficial for schools to be allowed to offer alternative easier languages for high school graduation ifthe resources necessary to do so are available. The problem in Canada is that many seem to not value bilingualism unless it's French-English bilingualism specifically. We must change that mentality and recognize that any bilingualism is better than none, even if it's not French-English bilingualism specifically.

 

[Machjo]

I never said it would be easy. I cannot speak any other language. Obviously I recognize some french words and we all know some french words and a word or so in some other languages like Spanish, and maybe even a word or two of russian. My brother was an ESL teacher and he said it was surprizing how quickly the young population picks up the english language. They in turn help out with their parents.

As for ESL, students are exposed to the language not only in the classroom but in their local environment too. In central Quebec, though, it's taught as EFL because they have no exposure whatsoever to the language outside the classroom, just as Albertans have no exposure to French outside the classroom either and so have to learn it as a foreign language too.

 

[LordDurham]

I support the Language Policy for the Dominion of Canada and its Provinces and Territories BTW of the Constitution Act of 1867 (British North American Act).


Constitution Act of 1867 (British North American Act)

Use of English and French Languages (Section 133)


Either the English or the French Language may be used by any
Person in the Debates of the Houses of Parliament of Canada
and of the Houses of Legislature of Quebec: and either of those
Languages shall be used in the respective Records and Journels
of those Houses: and either of those Languages may be used
by any Person or in any Pleading or Process in or issuing from
any Court of Canada established under this Act, and in or from
all or any of the Courts of Quebec.

The Acts of the Parliament of Canada and the Legislature of
Quebec shall be printed and published in both those Languages.



Constituion Act of 1867 (British North American Act)

Constitution Act, 1867 (English Language Version)
Loi constitutionnelle de 1867 (French Language Version)



National Language(s) of the Dominion of Canada
English, French

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Newfoundland (Minus Labrador)
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Nova Scotia
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of New Brunswick
English, French

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Prince Edward Island
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Quebec (Plus Labrador)
English, French

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Ontario
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Manitoba
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of Saskatchewan
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Provinces of Alberta
English

Provincial Language(s) of the Province of British Columbia
English

Territorial Language(s) of the Yukon Territory
English

Territorial Language(s) of the Northwest Territory (Plus Nunavut Territory)
English


Bilingual (English, French) Speaking Provinces (2)

01. Province of New Brunswick
02. Province of Quebec


Unilingual (English) Speaking Provinces (8)

01. Province of Newfoundland
02. Province of Nova Scotia
03. Province of Prince Edward Island
04. Province of Ontario
05. Province of Manitoba
06. Province of Saskatchewan
07. Province of Alberta
08. Province of British Columbia


Unilingual (English) Speaking Territories (2)

01. Yukon Territory
02. Northwest Territory