What ought to be Canada official language policy?

[Machjo]

You didn't give us the option of "English only" as the OFFICIAL language. I know that some of the provinces nearer Quebec have a lot of people who are bi-lingual but it ends there. Speaking french is the exception in all of the western provinces. It seems that most nations in the world are making an attempt at learning english and that it's even possible that one day, the language everyone will know will be english. I'm not saying that it will be the official language of other countries - just the most common language in the world. It's pretty much that now. There is a major difference between being multi-cultural and multi-lingual. There is absolutely zero need for us to be multi-lingual. It is far too great an expense and how on earth does anyone expect that we can squeeze more information onto pill bottles, food cans and even anti-perspirant containers! It's bad enough that we can barely read what things say because it must be written in both official languages. One official language is all that is necessary. Do remember that I said "official". Since Quebec is so interested in just French - they should have to supply information for each product they import, written in the language of their choice (even if they are importing from other provinces) so their populace can understand what they are buying and how to use that product. Sound silly? Well - isn't that how they play the game in a manner of speaking?:smile:

1. I did include option 5: Other Option. I'm sure thousands of options could be available, but the poll can only be so long. That's the purpose of option 5.

2. You said: 'Since in reality we all know that Quebec is the only province that fully adheres to french and the provinces and territories have english as their official language.'

I'd just like to correct this. Newfoundland and Labrador has 2 official languages (French and English), and so does the City of Ottawa. Nunavut has 4 official languages (English, French, inuktitu, and Inuinnaqtun) In fact, according to Statistics Canada (Population by knowledge of official language, by province and territory (2006 Census)), almost 8% of the population of Nunavut is functional in neither English nor French.

3. As for English abroad, though many are learning it, statistics from many countries show that few learn it well percentage-wise even if many do in numerical terms. If you get enough people learning it, at least a few are bound to get it. But this kind of stratagy for success is about as brilliant as counting on winning money in Las Vegas by enough enough times. Just to take a concrete example, it's estimated that about 90% of Western European are learning English, yet only about 6% are functional in it. Now 6% might be alot numerically, but percentage-wise it's pathetic. Not the most efficient second-language acquisition policy. For private schools it might be fine, parents are paying. But when public schools are getting money from taxpayers, I think they have a right to expect a higher rate of success than that. So if you're waiting for the day when the whole world speaks English, statistics show that you'll be waiting a long, long time.

 

[Johnnny]

keep it the way it is now, its a miracle we got this far

keep your native languages from your families immigration from way back in the day if it survives today at home like mine did

 

[VanIsle]

1. I did include option 5: Other Option. I'm sure thousands of options could be available, but the poll can only be so long. That's the purpose of option 5.

2. You said: 'Since in reality we all know that Quebec is the only province that fully adheres to french and the provinces and territories have english as their official language.'

I'd just like to correct this. Newfoundland and Labrador has 2 official languages (French and English), and so does the City of Ottawa. Nunavut has 4 official languages (English, French, inuktitu, and Inuinnaqtun) In fact, according to Statistics Canada (Population by knowledge of official language, by province and territory (2006 Census)), almost 8% of the population of Nunavut is functional in neither English nor French.

3. As for English abroad, though many are learning it, statistics from many countries show that few learn it well percentage-wise even if many do in numerical terms. If you get enough people learning it, at least a few are bound to get it. But this kind of stratagy for success is about as brilliant as counting on winning money in Las Vegas by enough enough times. Just to take a concrete example, it's estimated that about 90% of Western European are learning English, yet only about 6% are functional in it. Now 6% might be alot numerically, but percentage-wise it's pathetic. Not the most efficient second-language acquisition policy. For private schools it might be fine, parents are paying. But when public schools are getting money from taxpayers, I think they have a right to expect a higher rate of success than that. So if you're waiting for the day when the whole world speaks English, statistics show that you'll be waiting a long, long time.

I know we had option 5 but I would have liked to see the other choice as an option. Regardless of whether those places you mention have different languages then english or french, as far as the word "official" goes, I don't think we have changed that status regarding bi-lingualism. This country is still classified as bi-lingual to the best of my knowledge and that is why I was adamant in the usage of the word "official". Knowledge of a language or even full usage does not deem it as a countries official language.

 

[Machjo]

I know we had option 5 but I would have liked to see the other choice as an option. Regardless of whether those places you mention have different languages then english or french, as far as the word "official" goes, I don't think we have changed that status regarding bi-lingualism. This country is still classified as bi-lingual to the best of my knowledge and that is why I was adamant in the usage of the word "official". Knowledge of a language or even full usage does not deem it as a countries official language.

At a basic level, I agree with you. Whether a person knows the official language or not doesn't really matter in his day-to-day life because it's just a language of internal government administration.

But in a democratic system, things change. For one, what if, let's say, a speaker of Inuktitut who knows neither English nor French well (such persons who know neither English nor French make up about 8% of the population of Nunavut after all, and that's not a small percentage if we're talking democracy) decides to run as an MP for his riding in a federal election. Should he be allowed?

Now let's say he wins. Should he get an interpreter assigned to him in Parliament?

What if a constituent wants to write him a letter. Should we pay to have correspondence translated? Or do we just make it a requirement that before you be allowed to vote in an election or run for office that you must pass a language test?

I'm not saying there's any easy answer to this, but these are relevent questions when thinking of the relation between language rights and democracy.

I can see a number os solutions to this:

1. All citizens have a right to participate in the democratic process, and the government has the obligation to provide assistance in any language as necessary to make it happen. This could cost the government much money in translation and interpretation bills.

2. The government adopts the obligation to ensure that each citizen succeeds in learning a common national language. Depending on the language chosen, it could cost the government much money and also more than a generation to fully implement.

3. Leave it at the status quo, with those who don't know either English or French (such as that 8% in Nunavut) likely just dropping out of the democratic process.

Some might be satisfied with option 3 above, but then it leads to moral and philosophical questions concerning our commitment to democracy. Personally, I'd opt for option 2 above as my preferred choice, and 1 above as my second preferred, though granted 1 above would mean a tax hike too.

3 above just shows a lack of concern for civic participation. And of course there might be even more options available.

 

[Tyr]

You didn't give us the option of "English only" as the OFFICIAL language. Since in reality we all know that Quebec is the only province that fully adheres to french and the provinces and territories have english as their official language. I know that some of the provinces nearer Quebec have a lot of people who are bi-lingual but it ends there. Speaking french is the exception in all of the western provinces. It seems that most nations in the world are making an attempt at learning english and that it's even possible that one day, the language everyone will know will be english. I'm not saying that it will be the official language of other countries - just the most common language in the world. It's pretty much that now. There is a major difference between being multi-cultural and multi-lingual. There is absolutely zero need for us to be multi-lingual. It is far too great an expense and how on earth does anyone expect that we can squeeze more information onto pill bottles, food cans and even anti-perspirant containers! It's bad enough that we can barely read what things say because it must be written in both official languages. One official language is all that is necessary. Do remember that I said "official". Since Quebec is so interested in just French - they should have to supply information for each product they import, written in the language of their choice (even if they are importing from other provinces) so their populace can understand what they are buying and how to use that product. Sound silly? Well - isn't that how they play the game in a manner of speaking?:smile:

the provinces and territories have english as their official language.

New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba are officially bilingual with no one language taking precedence over the other

 

[Machjo]

the provinces and territories have english as their official language.

New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba are officially bilingual with no one language taking precedence over the other

And Nunavut has four official languages.

 

[Liberalman]

Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui. ​

C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.​

 

[Machjo]

Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui. ​

C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.​

Peut tu expliquer pourquoi c'est "tout simplement la bonne chose à faire", ou n'est-ce que le traditionalisme sans concerne pour les couts?

 

[Machjo]

Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui. ​

C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.​

Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.

 

[taxslave]

Quoting Liberalman
Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui.



C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.
Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.
Any one want to translate that?
This is why we need ONE official language. So we can all communicate. In BC it would be better to have Chinese or Punjabi as other official languages as both far outnumber French and are far more important from a trade perspective.

 

[Liberalman]

Machjo​

Il est compatible avec la justice parce que les textes de lois sont dans les deux langues. ​

Dans le contexte actuel de la technologie et des logiciels de traduction le coût est minime. ​

Juste pour vous donner un exemple je ne parle pas ou même de comprendre ou de lire ou d'écrire en français peut-être qu'un jour je vais apprendre mais nous avons tous les deux communiquer en français sont l'une des langues officielles du Canada. ​

J'utilise un programme de traduction trouvé sur Google si les coûts ne soient pas plus la question parce que la technologie a rendu facile d'accès. ​

Selon la CBC news on TV e-books sont en hausse et les livres traditionnels sur une baisse beaucoup plus de gens ont électronique lecteurs e-book qui signifie que les gens seront en mesure d'acheter une traduction d'un livre pour un coût minime. ​

Cet argument aurait été vrai il ya trente ans, mais aujourd'hui, cet argument n'est plus valable.​

 

[Cannuck]

Any one want to translate that?

Quoting Liberalman
Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui.

I am French and English and the both have to be official languages.


C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.
Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.

It's good and it's to our advantage to have official bilingualism but there are questions regarding it's fairness.

That ain't word for word. My french has deteriorated considerably since I left New Brunswick

 

[Liberalman]

Cannuck

It's fair

 

[Machjo]

Quoting Liberalman
Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui.



C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.
Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.
Any one want to translate that?
This is why we need ONE official language. So we can all communicate. In BC it would be better to have Chinese or Punjabi as other official languages as both far outnumber French and are far more important from a trade perspective.

Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui.

Here's his exact meaning in English, mistakes and all:

I am French and English must be the official languages of Canada as it is today.

Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.

I can understand that it's to our (I was referring here to French-English bilinguals such as myself) advantage to promote Official Bilingualism, but the real quesiton is whether this policy is conformant with justice.

And yes, I agree, Taxslave, that no society can be coherent without a common language for exactly the reasons you're witnessing here. The minds and hearts of Canadians are closed to each other. Language is the key to open the doors to our hearts and minds. Without that key, we are alien to each other. It's a shame that even supposedly educated Canadians cannot grasp that most basic of concepts.

 

[Machjo]

Quoting Liberalman
Je suis français et en anglais doivent être les langues officielles du Canada tel qu'il est aujourd'hui.

I am French and English and the both have to be official languages.


C'est tout simplement la bonne chose à faire.
Je peut bien comprendre que c'est à notre avantage de promouvoir le bilinguisme officiel, mais la vraie question est si cette politique est conforme à la justice.

It's good and it's to our advantage to have official bilingualism but there are questions regarding it's fairness.

That ain't word for word. My french has deteriorated considerably since I left New Brunswick

Sorry, I missed that.

 

[VanIsle]

the provinces and territories have english as their official language.

New Brunswick, Ontario and Manitoba are officially bilingual with no one language taking precedence over the other

Tyr,
Please - I can see, I can read and I can hear. No matter how loud you "yell" at me with the bold print, it doesn't change what you say. I will either agree or disagree or just ponder what you have to say, one way or another. Thank you.

 

[Machjo]

Quoting Liberalman
My french has deteriorated considerably since I left New Brunswick

Another reason why a common easy-to-learn second language would be advantgeous to the promotion of language justice for all Canadians. And NB is more French-speaking than Alberta or BC. Imagine the Innuit who must learn not only their own language but French and Enlgish too and then try to maintain them all. Clearly this is a matter of justice. Why should one group have to learn two languages while another must lern three?

 

[Machjo]

Machjo​

Il est compatible avec la justice parce que les textes de lois sont dans les deux langues. ​

Dans le contexte actuel de la technologie et des logiciels de traduction le coût est minime. ​

Juste pour vous donner un exemple je ne parle pas ou même de comprendre ou de lire ou d'écrire en français peut-être qu'un jour je vais apprendre mais nous avons tous les deux communiquer en français sont l'une des langues officielles du Canada. ​

J'utilise un programme de traduction trouvé sur Google si les coûts ne soient pas plus la question parce que la technologie a rendu facile d'accès. ​

Selon la CBC news on TV e-books sont en hausse et les livres traditionnels sur une baisse beaucoup plus de gens ont électronique lecteurs e-book qui signifie que les gens seront en mesure d'acheter une traduction d'un livre pour un coût minime. ​

Cet argument aurait été vrai il ya trente ans, mais aujourd'hui, cet argument n'est plus valable.​

Well, that explains youre ambiguous French in the first one. And then you try to say taht machine translation will fix it. Nice try. It works to some degree, but it can still lead to ambiguity. And even if it was accurate, is the government planning on providing every citizen with a computer?

You say that Official Bilingualism is just to protect the minority language? French, minority? I don't think so. If the concern was truly for minority languages, we'd be defending our ingdigenous languages, not our imperial languages.

French-English bilingualism is just traditional imperialism marketted in a different package.

 

[Machjo]

Another question for Liberalman. Why are you defending official bilingualism when you yourself do not know French? You yourself have failed to learn French. Certainly basic common sense should tell you that obviously you have gained neither culturally nor economically from this.

 

[china]

In China people are communicating in over 100 different languages but they have only one official language Mandarin and everyone is happy .Oh, they also have one more thing ....maturity .