What Makes America Perfect??
- Thread starter Jersay
- Start date
america is great
but not as great as it could be
not as great as it should be
its reasonable to point out that this the wealthiest and most powerfull of countries --still cannot eliminate poverty---internally
but then again-- we as canadians havent either
but not as great as it could be
not as great as it should be
its reasonable to point out that this the wealthiest and most powerfull of countries --still cannot eliminate poverty---internally
but then again-- we as canadians havent either
selfactivated said:Im not going to hijack this thread to teach grown men manners.......at some point I get PMs
And I don't need to be taught manners. I apply them when I see it's worth it.
Re: RE: What Makes America Perfect??
I wouldn't.
As you mentioned, "poverty" is defined to narrowly.
Poverty is relative to the desires of the person.
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
Now, we can go to the basics of impoverishment; food, shelter, clothing. Fulfilling these needs is not so demanding so long as one is not deceived by the "capitalist".
Poverty itself within society is a product of the social nature of humanity. The desire for achieving rank will always result in somebody being at the bottom. If we look at sub-cultures within society, we can see how poverty is a social rank. The "impoverished" are those that have what "you" deem necessary. In the world of excess and greed, we see this poverty point slide quite far from group to group.
So a "war on poverty" is as unwinnable as a "war on terror" because it is the society itself that creates the poverty and the terror.
jimmoyer said:
I wouldn't.
As you mentioned, "poverty" is defined to narrowly.
Poverty is relative to the desires of the person.
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
Now, we can go to the basics of impoverishment; food, shelter, clothing. Fulfilling these needs is not so demanding so long as one is not deceived by the "capitalist".
Poverty itself within society is a product of the social nature of humanity. The desire for achieving rank will always result in somebody being at the bottom. If we look at sub-cultures within society, we can see how poverty is a social rank. The "impoverished" are those that have what "you" deem necessary. In the world of excess and greed, we see this poverty point slide quite far from group to group.
So a "war on poverty" is as unwinnable as a "war on terror" because it is the society itself that creates the poverty and the terror.
Poverty is relative to the desires of the person.
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
------------------------caracal kid------------------------
THAT is the beginning of any thinking on the subject.
What else are you thinking on the matter ?
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
------------------------caracal kid------------------------
THAT is the beginning of any thinking on the subject.
What else are you thinking on the matter ?
there is the culture of poverty
the marginalization
the sense of futility regarding any material improvement
rendering one suseptible to very short term thinking
and action
and to the impossiblity of deferment of gratification
required for most long term higher objectives
the marginalization
the sense of futility regarding any material improvement
rendering one suseptible to very short term thinking
and action
and to the impossiblity of deferment of gratification
required for most long term higher objectives
Also very good points.
I think a culture of thinking regarding those lines
would also do far more for the War on Poverty than
other many failed plans.
I think a culture of thinking regarding those lines
would also do far more for the War on Poverty than
other many failed plans.
Re: RE: What Makes America Perfect??
Eating is not a sell, health care is not a sell, sanitary living conditions is not a sell, education is not a sell.
jimmoyer said:
Eating is not a sell, health care is not a sell, sanitary living conditions is not a sell, education is not a sell.
Eating is not a sell, health care is not a sell, sanitary living conditions is not a sell, education is not a sell.
----------------------I think Not---------------------------
None of it is a "sell." But no one, not even you, will
provide it free.
----------------------I think Not---------------------------
None of it is a "sell." But no one, not even you, will
provide it free.
Re: RE: What Makes America Perfect??
That's right jimmoyer, so where is the "fraud"?
jimmoyer said:
That's right jimmoyer, so where is the "fraud"?
Eating is not a sell, health care is not a sell, sanitary living conditions is not a sell, education is not a sell.
----------------------I think Not---------------------------
None of it is a "sell." But no one, not even you, will
provide it free.
-------------------jimmoyer-----------------------------
That's right jimmoyer, so where is the "fraud"?
-----------------------I think Not----------------------------
I'm not understanding you. Explain some more.
----------------------I think Not---------------------------
None of it is a "sell." But no one, not even you, will
provide it free.
-------------------jimmoyer-----------------------------
That's right jimmoyer, so where is the "fraud"?
-----------------------I think Not----------------------------
I'm not understanding you. Explain some more.
Re: RE: What Makes America Perfect??
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
------------------------caracal kid------------------------
Caracal kid is of the position people "feel" impoverished because they are being sold the idea. You do not need to sell anybody the idea they do not have enough food to eat, or attend school. He makes it sound like an illusion, and it isn't.
jimmoyer said:
The greatest fraud with respect to poverty is people being sold the idea they should want and need a "lifestyle" and from that perspective they feel impoverished.
------------------------caracal kid------------------------
Caracal kid is of the position people "feel" impoverished because they are being sold the idea. You do not need to sell anybody the idea they do not have enough food to eat, or attend school. He makes it sound like an illusion, and it isn't.
Well now I can understand Caracal Kid on that one.
A lot of kids during the Great Depression did not
"feel" impoverished mainly because EVERYBODY was
just about in the same boat.
But in the inner cities, a lot of people feel impoverished
so near great wealth and in fact "are" impoverished
by such proximity.
And you know that "victim psychology" sells.
So perhaps those immigrants who struggle but give
the next generation a leg up, send out a positive vibe
that doesn't "feel" impoverished.
A lot of kids during the Great Depression did not
"feel" impoverished mainly because EVERYBODY was
just about in the same boat.
But in the inner cities, a lot of people feel impoverished
so near great wealth and in fact "are" impoverished
by such proximity.
And you know that "victim psychology" sells.
So perhaps those immigrants who struggle but give
the next generation a leg up, send out a positive vibe
that doesn't "feel" impoverished.
Well the left wing, and we can complain until pigs fly about how bad the american system is. Really we could and it is shitty and bad. But at the sametime, the American system of democracy is one of the best in the world (besides the reliance on the electoral collage), with more workable checks and balances then any other in the world today. The American Republican system is as good as a democracy you can have without adding more direct democracy (which in turn would add more power to mob rule on the other hand).
Yes the USA sucks, I don't want to live their but at the same time their government sucks becase the American people have not chosen to make their government accountable. They have the freedom to vote for pretty much anyone they want but they have continuously elected the same two parties into power with, really leaders who get worse and worse as time goes by. Every 4 years they get a chance to totally change the executive, every two years they get the chance to change their legislators and reps, but they chose to mainly elected the same people and if not the same person the same two parties.
Indeed the Republicans and democrats are laughing that they have it so easy. The puplic is either so stupid, blind or lazy to elect someone else that they are just handed power by throw a couple of million dollars into negitive add camps and walk away with real power.
Nothing is wrong with the American Government, but their is something wrong with the American people who just don't get democracy.
If americans "got it' a person like Bush would never get elected. A horrible speaker, statesman and diplomate, and I'm not even attacking his political charater but just quilities a leader should have. I can't believe someone like him could even become a local elderman, let alone a president. The fact you can just slap on a button to almost anyone in the right state and that button which reads republican or democrat will get them elected is the biggest miscarage of democracy you can have, yet the american people do it and it is their democracy, their system so it is their problem which they can only fix.
Yes the USA sucks, I don't want to live their but at the same time their government sucks becase the American people have not chosen to make their government accountable. They have the freedom to vote for pretty much anyone they want but they have continuously elected the same two parties into power with, really leaders who get worse and worse as time goes by. Every 4 years they get a chance to totally change the executive, every two years they get the chance to change their legislators and reps, but they chose to mainly elected the same people and if not the same person the same two parties.
Indeed the Republicans and democrats are laughing that they have it so easy. The puplic is either so stupid, blind or lazy to elect someone else that they are just handed power by throw a couple of million dollars into negitive add camps and walk away with real power.
Nothing is wrong with the American Government, but their is something wrong with the American people who just don't get democracy.
If americans "got it' a person like Bush would never get elected. A horrible speaker, statesman and diplomate, and I'm not even attacking his political charater but just quilities a leader should have. I can't believe someone like him could even become a local elderman, let alone a president. The fact you can just slap on a button to almost anyone in the right state and that button which reads republican or democrat will get them elected is the biggest miscarage of democracy you can have, yet the american people do it and it is their democracy, their system so it is their problem which they can only fix.
Re: RE: What Makes America Perfect??
Sorry, I thought we were talking real poverty.
jimmoyer said:
Sorry, I thought we were talking real poverty.
We are talking "real" poverty, both in spirit and in
this material world.
It's hard to separate "real" from "perspective."
In the example of the Great Depression, many found
misery loves company, and so the spirit of especially
the kids who didn't know any better, grew
up not feeling impoverished and yet by any standard
were certainly really poor.
But when you have close proximity of wealth and
poverty, the feelings of the poor are even worsened.
this material world.
It's hard to separate "real" from "perspective."
In the example of the Great Depression, many found
misery loves company, and so the spirit of especially
the kids who didn't know any better, grew
up not feeling impoverished and yet by any standard
were certainly really poor.
But when you have close proximity of wealth and
poverty, the feelings of the poor are even worsened.
Anyhow my point is if all those millions wanted to change the government, better themselves, if they were smart enough not to be told who to vote for, then they would vote for someone who would stand up for their interests.
This issue can go on forever, for one very simple reason, poverty is redefined based on perspective.