What is Canadian Culture? your input.

[I think not]

A bit of history

Canadians aren't Americans. That is the core of “Canadian ness”, and has been for 229 years. When American colonists fought Great Britain in the War of Independence, many of them imagined that Canadians would want to join them in freedom. The Articles of Confederation, the first governing charter of the United States, extended the invitation explicitly: ''Canada ... shall be admitted into, and entitled to all the advantages of, the Union.'' It wasn't to be. Canada became a launching ground for British attacks and a haven for Tory loyalists, 40,000 of whom fled northward.
Whatever Americans were, Canadians decided they were not. If Americans saw themselves as a new nation rooted in the soil of the New World, Canadians insisted they were loyal subjects of the crown. America was born through a noisy, clamorous revolution against Britain, whereas Canadians took pride in being a part of the British Empire. For 150 years, Ottawa sent no ambassador to Washington: Canadians were represented in the United States by the ambassador of Great Britain.

Then came the end of the British Empire, and with it, the collapse of the Canadian ethos. What did it mean to be the British North Americans once the British sun had set? Canadians were left with nothing but their old insistence on not being like Americans. And the more apparent it became that they were, in fact, just like Americans - they talked like Americans, dressed like Americans, saturated themselves with American culture, and overwhelmingly chose to live near the American border - the more frantically they searched for ways to prove their distinctiveness.

A few things to correct, first of all. ''Canada'' I shall Québec for this period. We we're Canada. Only francophones, a few anglophones. 1 000 000 British fled. Over 200 000 settles in any of the 4 british Colonies of the time. 40 000 of them in what was part of Québec (Now Ontario).

We didnt join in your revolution because you failed to communicate to the French population what exactly it is you we're doing. To my ancesters, replacing one english ruler by another was all the same. The british conquest broke us, we we're a demoralised people. With no hope.

Now your logic behind settleling near the American border is ridiculous. Its just logical that we did. the means of transportation at the time we're boats, and that only. We settles near the Saint-Lawrence. And that stayed. Its also warmer, to the south then it is in the northern lands. I can atest to that. I moved from Montreal to the Saguenay area, and its quite colder. Though no humidity. Also ''Les basses Terres du Saint-Laurent'' are flat lands, and fertile. For a culture of farmers, its perfect. Where as, Starting just a few kilometers north of Québec city, its moutain ranges all along. Farming at the time was impossible in this type of terrain, though now alot of farms do exist. Its only a recent event.

But for the rest, I do agree. Though I don't really feel any connection between my culture and that of the canadians, they do identity themselves as none Americans. I, and my culture, do not need to do that. Our difference is clearly lined. We have our own Artists, actors, directors, TV shows, award shows, celebrations, dances. Fast food is the only thing we share with Americans and Canadians. Besides that, we have a more European style of eating. Whine, pain baguette, love for cheese. Gormet foods. If you consider us Canadians, then Canadians truly are different then Americans.

I should of been a bit more clear here Numure, I have a habit of not differentiating residents of Quebec. Everything I stated had to do with with what is today Anglophone Canadians. I know you have a different culture than the rest of Canada. Anglophone Canadians however will tell you, their culture is much similar to yours than it is with Americans.

The gathering along the American border by Anglophone Canadians was done for trade reasons as was the case with Quebec, it didn't just happen so to speak.

As for Francophones not being fully aware what it was we were doing, I think a revolution speaks for itself, however, it wouldn't have made much of a difference. Americans were Anglophones as well, for all intensive purposes for Francophones, like you said, you were possibly trading in one English speaking ruler for another.

 

[peapod]

Here's another big difference to between you yaks and us, sweet gentle nation that we be. :wink: You don't think this is funny, and we do.!!!!!!! Well I only speak for myself of course




A customer enters a pet shop.

Customer: 'Ello, I wish to register a complaint.

(The owner does not respond.)

Customer: 'Ello, Miss?
Owner: What do you mean "miss"?
Customer: I'm sorry, I have a cold. I wish to make a complaint!
Owner: We're closin' for lunch.
Customer: Never mind that, my lad. I wish to complain about this parrot what I
purchased not half an hour ago from this very boutique.
Owner: Oh yes, the, uh, the Norwegian Blue...What's,uh...What's wrong with it?
Customer: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's
wrong with it!
Owner: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
Customer: Look, matey, I know a dead parrot when I see one, and I'm looking
at one right now.
Owner: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! Remarkable bird, the Norwegian
Blue, idn'it, ay? Beautiful plumage!
Customer: The plumage don't enter into it. It's stone dead.
Owner: Nononono, no, no! 'E's resting!
Customer: All right then, if he's restin', I'll wake him up!
(shouting at the cage)
'Ello, Mister Polly Parrot! I've got a lovely fresh cuttle fish for you if
you show...(owner hits the cage)
Owner: There, he moved!
Customer: No, he didn't, that was you hitting the cage!
Owner: I never!!
Customer: Yes, you did!
Owner: I never, never did anything...
Customer: (yelling and hitting the cage repeatedly) 'ELLO POLLY!!!!!
Testing! Testing! Testing! Testing! This is your nine o'clock alarm call!

(Takes parrot out of the cage and thumps its head on the counter. Throws it up
in the air and watches it plummet to the floor.)

Customer: Now that's what I call a dead parrot.
Owner: No, no.....No, 'e's stunned!
Customer: STUNNED?!?
Owner: Yeah! You stunned him, just as he was wakin' up! Norwegian Blues
stun easily, major.
Customer: Um...now look...now look, mate, I've definitely 'ad enough of this.
That parrot is definitely deceased, and when I purchased it not 'alf an hour
ago, you assured me that its total lack of movement was due to it bein'
tired and shagged out following a prolonged squawk.
Owner: Well, he's...he's, ah...probably pining for the fjords.
Customer: PININ' for the FJORDS?!?!?!? What kind of talk is that?, look, why
did he fall flat on his back the moment I got 'im home?
Owner: The Norwegian Blue prefers kippin' on it's back! Remarkable bird, id'nit,
squire? Lovely plumage!
Customer: Look, I took the liberty of examining that parrot when I got it home,
and I discovered the only reason that it had been sitting on its perch in
the first place was that it had been NAILED there.

(pause)

Owner: Well, o'course it was nailed there! If I hadn't nailed that bird down,
it would have nuzzled up to those bars, bent 'em apart with its beak, and
VOOM! Feeweeweewee!
Customer: "VOOM"?!? Mate, this bird wouldn't "voom" if you put four million volts
through it! 'E's bleedin' demised!
Owner: No no! 'E's pining!
Customer: 'E's not pinin'! 'E's passed on! This parrot is no more! He has ceased
to be! 'E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker! 'E's a stiff! Bereft
of life, 'e rests in peace! If you hadn't nailed 'im to the perch 'e'd be
pushing up the daisies! 'Is metabolic processes are now 'istory! 'E's off
the twig! 'E's kicked the bucket, 'e's shuffled off 'is mortal coil, run
down the curtain and joined the bleedin' choir invisibile!!
THIS IS AN EX-PARROT!!

(pause)

Owner: Well, I'd better replace it, then.
(he takes a quick peek behind the counter)
Owner: Sorry squire, I've had a look 'round the back of the shop, and uh, we're right out of parrots. Customer: I see. I see, I get the picture.
Owner: I got a slug.

(pause)

Customer: (sweet as sugar) Pray, does it talk?
Owner: Nnnnot really.
Customer: WELL IT'S HARDLY A BLOODY REPLACEMENT, IS IT?!!???!!?
Owner: Look, if you go to my brother's pet shop in Bolton, he'll replace the parrot for you.
Customer: Bolton, eh? Very well.

The customer leaves.

The customer enters the same pet shop. The owner is putting on a false
moustache.

Customer: This is Bolton, is it?
Owner: (with a fake mustache) No, it's Ipswitch.
Customer: (looking at the camera) That's inter-city rail for you.

The customer goes to the train station.
He addresses a man standing behind a desk marked "Complaints".

Customer: I wish to complain, British-Railways Person.
Attendant: I DON'T HAVE TO DO THIS JOB, YOU KNOW!!!
Customer: I beg your pardon...?
Attendant: I'm a qualified brain surgeon! I only do this job because I like being my own boss!
Customer: Excuse me, this is irrelevant, isn't it?
Attendant: Yeah, well it's not easy to pad these python files out to 200 lines, you know.
Customer: Well, I wish to complain. I got on the Bolton train and found myself deposited here in Ipswitch.
Attendant: No, this is Bolton.
Customer: (to the camera) The pet shop man's brother was lying!!
Attendant: Can't blame British Rail for that.
Customer: In that case, I shall return to the pet shop!

He does.

Customer: I understand this IS Bolton.
Owner: (still with the fake mustache) Yes?
Customer: You told me it was Ipswitch!
Owner: ...It was a pun.
Customer: (pause) A PUN?!?
Owner: No, no...not a pun...What's that thing that spells the same backwards as forwards?
Customer: (Long pause) A palindrome...?
Owner: Yeah, that's it!
Customer: It's not a palindrome! The palindrome of "Bolton" would be "Notlob"!! It don't work!!
Owner: Well, what do you want?
Customer: I'm not prepared to pursue my line of inquiry any longer as I think this is getting too silly!

Sergeant-Major: Quite agree, quite agree, too silly, far too silly ...

 

[zenfisher]

You missed something in there...Pea...I remember something about ...This is a Polly Gone.There were a couple of versions...

 

[bletchley]

Hmmm...a troll.

 

[bletchley]

Re: RE: What is Canadian Culture? your input.

Hmmm...a troll.

Why was this edited by someone other than me? wtf?

 

[Wetcoast40]

This thread has been vandalized quite enough for one year. It may have already been suggested, but I can highly recommend Pierre Berton's "Why We Act Like Canadians" (M&S 1982)to get a more comprehensive and lucid sense of what our "culture" is based on. Most of the stuff written earlier is boring and sometimes incoherent.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

Hey, here is a thought, I am going to put this thread back on track.

One word for Canadian culture? ... Catalyst.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: What is Canadian Culture? your input.

One word hey?

Diversity

All the words I see, polite, nice, compassionate, etc are characteristics, but I don't think it defines our culture.

Culture mostly comes from language, film, art, music, cuisine; you know, all the stuff we are cutting from school funding.

Diversity has probably been the downfall of Canada. I can see this as being of East Indian decent and a first generation Canuck.

Canada's motto of multiculturalism is noble, but not practical. We have no common threads in this country. Immigrants have nothing to grasp onto so they retain their old culture. Most people here don't identify themselves as Canadian, they refer to the old country, even 2nd or third generation Canadians who have never been to their ancestral land will still classify themselves as such.

Certain regions have local culture, Quebec, Maritimes, perhaps the west, but no real Canadian culture.

A country like Australia has more culture than us, even though it shares a similar path of creation.

This mosaic thing is crap, I'm leaning more and more to the melting pot idea.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

This mosaic thing is crap, I'm leaning more and more to the melting pot idea.

I agree, the "melting pot" encourages unity, whereas the "mosaic" thing encourages segregation and does nothing to discourage racism.

This whole mosaic thing is not so far off from what the blacks were fighting against not so long ago.

 

[Toro]

RE: What is Canadian Cult

I think not, your post is absolutely dead on. Great summation. I've live in the US and have lived in England, and the differences between Canada and the US are far less than the differences between Canada and England. There is very little difference between living in Canada and living in the US.

I would also add to the discussion;

"Roots"

Most of my American friends know about Roots clothing.

 

[Derry McKinney]

The very first sentence of this thread is incorrect. Canadians do not define ourselves as what we are not. It might seem that way to somebody who thinks they have a superior culture, or that we are like Americans, because they start out with that premise and it is then explained to them through differences.

It is also not correct to say that we have a less cohesive culture than Austrailia or the US. Go to Montana, then go to Pennsylvania. Tell me those two places are culturally the same. Go to the Austrailian Outback, then go visit Sydney...different cultures again.

The same goes for melting pot vs. mosaic. Large US cities have ethnic enclaves, just as Canadian cities do. So do large cities in Britain, for that matter, or France. People hang onto their heritage, it's the way things are.

What is Canadian culture? If you want to define it through TV or film, it is biting satire and documentaries. If you want to define it through books, it is introspective literature.

A lot of people point to our social programs to define our culture, and those who cannot or will not understand point to that as proof that we have no culture. We don't mean those programs though, we mean what they stand for. We are a culture of helping others.

That culture has been under attack since the 1980's, not just from US influences, but from Canadians who feel that our culture is inferior and would denigrate it in order to destroy it and replace it with a culture of greed.

It's pretty funny that an American started this thread. What is American culture? Define it. What is British culture? Define it. What is Austrailian culture? Define it.

 

[DasFX]

Re: RE: What is Canadian Cult

I think not, your post is absolutely dead on. Great summation. I've live in the US and have lived in England, and the differences between Canada and the US are far less than the differences between Canada and England. There is very little difference between living in Canada and living in the US.

I would also add to the discussion;

"Roots"

Most of my American friends know about Roots clothing.

Of course there is less difference between Canada and the US than Canada and England. By that is only in terms of living conditions, infrastructure and other physical things.

I mean, when we go to the states, we have familiarity in their systems. Driving on interstates are like driving on the 401, going to McD's is the same as here, you see the same stores, the daily routines and rituals are quite similar. Our cities and neighbourhood are set up almost the same. We watch the same TV shows at the same time, we see their commercials, and we’ve most likely visited the US more than anywhere else.

Adaptation to day-to-day life is easier for Canadians in the States than anywhere else, but that doesn't mean the actual people are the same.

On the surface Canada and the US are the same, but in terms how people think and how they view the world, we are more like Europe.

Who cares if someone knows about Roots clothing, I mean I know of JC Penny and Kaufmanns, but that doesn't mean I think the same as Americans.

 

[Toro]

Re: RE: What is Canadian Cult

I think not, your post is absolutely dead on. Great summation. I've live in the US and have lived in England, and the differences between Canada and the US are far less than the differences between Canada and England. There is very little difference between living in Canada and living in the US.

I would also add to the discussion;

"Roots"

Most of my American friends know about Roots clothing.

Of course there is less difference between Canada and the US than Canada and England. By that is only in terms of living conditions, infrastructure and other physical things.

I mean, when we go to the states, we have familiarity in their systems. Driving on interstates are like driving on the 401, going to McD's is the same as here, you see the same stores, the daily routines and rituals are quite similar. Our cities and neighbourhood are set up almost the same. We watch the same TV shows at the same time, we see their commercials, and we’ve most likely visited the US more than anywhere else.

Adaptation to day-to-day life is easier for Canadians in the States than anywhere else, but that doesn't mean the actual people are the same.

On the surface Canada and the US are the same, but in terms how people think and how they view the world, we are more like Europe.

Who cares if someone knows about Roots clothing, I mean I know of JC Penny and Kaufmanns, but that doesn't mean I think the same as Americans.

That's true. Americans and Canadians are not the same. There are differences. They're small and subtle, but they're real. But we are very similair.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

The same goes for melting pot vs. mosaic. Large US cities have ethnic enclaves, just as Canadian cities do. So do large cities in Britain, for that matter, or France. People hang onto their heritage, it's the way things are.

It is getting progressively more ridiculous though. There are entire blocks where every house is owned by the same family in areas where it is at least 90% the same "heritage" for miles and miles. Every store, every Laundromat, everything owned by the same family and/or friends of. They have total control over large areas, which just get larger and larger, and for miles it looks like a clone of their home Country.

Pretty soon every block will be a China town, or an India town, or a Pakistan town, or a Italian town ... Pretty soon, no one will even consider moving into a neighborhood unless at least 90% of the area has the same ethnic background as himself.

Holding on to one's old heritage is one thing, but trying to completely rebuild his old country inside this one, while completely shutting out everything that is Canada except that which benefits him, is taking it way too far. Unfortunately, that is what is often taking place here.

 

[Derry McKinney]

RE: What is Canadian Cult

That has always been the way it is. If you look at small towns on the prairies, you quickly find that they (and the surrounding farms) have distinct ethnic hertages. The town closest to me is full of Hungarians, down the highway are Ukrainians, go a little futher and it's Poles. Five or six generations on and they still know the language of their ancestors, eat the same foods, follow the same religions, and have the same traditions. For most of them it took two or three generations before English became the first language. That all happened long before anybody ever thought of multi-culturalism.

 

[Gordon J Torture]

That has always been the way it is.

Only to a certain extent. It used to be a lot more overall diverse in the cities, and diverse neighbourhoods were easier to come by. At least in my experiences.

 

[peapod]

Wow! you two are having a very interesting conversation, its actually interesting to read 8)

 

[I think not]

The very first sentence of this thread is incorrect. Canadians do not define ourselves as what we are not. It might seem that way to somebody who thinks they have a superior culture, or that we are like Americans, because they start out with that premise and it is then explained to them through differences.

The premise that it is explained through differences is the Canadian way. No one implied (other than you) that American culture is superior to Canadian or any other one for that matter

It is also not correct to say that we have a less cohesive culture than Austrailia or the US. Go to Montana, then go to Pennsylvania. Tell me those two places are culturally the same. Go to the Austrailian Outback, then go visit Sydney...different cultures again.

Regionality plays a big role. Agreed

The same goes for melting pot vs. mosaic. Large US cities have ethnic enclaves, just as Canadian cities do. So do large cities in Britain, for that matter, or France. People hang onto their heritage, it's the way things are.

Agreed

What is Canadian culture? If you want to define it through TV or film, it is biting satire and documentaries. If you want to define it through books, it is introspective literature.

A lot of people point to our social programs to define our culture, and those who cannot or will not understand point to that as proof that we have no culture. We don't mean those programs though, we mean what they stand for. We are a culture of helping others.

As are many cultures around the world

That culture has been under attack since the 1980's, not just from US influences, but from Canadians who feel that our culture is inferior and would denigrate it in order to destroy it and replace it with a culture of greed.

Defining American culture are we? Greed? I thought that was a human weakness :idea:

It's pretty funny that an American started this thread.

An American didn't start this thread, an American gave a point of view.

What is American culture? Define it. What is British culture? Define it. What is Austrailian culture? Define it.

Start another thread on each and I'll certainly try

 

[Reverend Blair]

The premise that it is explained through differences is the Canadian way. No one implied (other than you) that American culture is superior to Canadian or any other one for that matter

Oddly enough, when I sit around the bar discussing Canadian culture with Canadians, differences are seldom used to describe our culture. I in no way implied that American culture was superior, only that some feel it is.

As are many cultures around the world

Many cultures are, and many of those cultures help to make up Canada. It is one of our defining features. It doesn't just appear in social programs, but in our involvement with the UN and many of our foreign policies. It is the result of developing a harsh frontier and of being a mosaic instead of a melting pot.

Defining American culture are we? Greed? I thought that was a human weakness

Actually I was defining the culture of the Stephen Harpers of this country. The US influences I was thinking of were more along the lines of Three's Company reruns and whoever the latest teeny-bopper with plastic tits is playing endlessly on Much Less Music.

An American didn't start this thread, an American gave a point of view.

I should have read further back. I'm a newbie, what can I say?

Start another thread on each and I'll certainly try

The point was that it isn't a question that's constantly asked in those countries. That it is constantly asked of Canadians is part of that introspective literature I was talking about before.

 

[Jay]

I should have read further back. I'm a newbie, what can I say?

He's trying to mess with our minds....