What have the Americans ever done for us?

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
What have the Americans ever done for us? Liberated 50 million people... Gerard Baker

Ignoring, fortunately, the assault from clever world opinion on America’s motives, its credibility and its ambitions, the Bush Administration set out not only to eliminate immediate threats but also to remake the Middle East. In the last month, the pace of progress has accelerated, and from Beirut to Kabul.

...

“All right, all right. But apart from liberating 50 million people in Iraq and Afghanistan, undermining dictatorships throughout the Arab world, spreading freedom and self-determination in the broader Middle East and moving the Palestinians and the Israelis towards a real chance of ending their centuries-long war, what have the Americans ever done for us?”

...

But something very important is happening now, something that will be very hard to stop. And, although not all of it can be directly attributed to the US strategy in the region, can anyone seriously argue that it would have happened without it?

There are literally hundreds of commentaries from all political (discounting of course the radical left communists like Rev) sides that are wondering if the naysayers are moot. This article from The Times in Britian is just one of many.
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
Whether they wanted to be liberated or not,eh?They just know way down deep in their hearts what is best for every nation in the world. Won't it be a wonderful place when everyone is an avowed capitalist and a Christian also?
 

missile

House Member
Dec 1, 2004
4,846
17
38
Saint John N.B.
Perhaps if we ask them nicely,they will come up here and liberate us,too-My only hope is that our body count won't be terribly high!
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: What have the America

Afghanistan is still only "liberated" in major cities.

Iraq is only "liberated" inside the green zone.

A half million people took to the streets of Lebabnon a few days ago to tell the USA to piss off and stay out of their business.

There have been no elections in Saudi Arabia, the USA's biggest ally in the Arab world.

The US still support dictatorial regimes all over the planet.

A spokesman for the State Department referred to democratically elected socialist governments in South America as being dictatorships. Apparently the US doesn't understand how elections work.

What has the US done for the world lately? Killed and maimed in the name of money.
 

no1important

Time Out
Jan 9, 2003
4,125
0
36
56
Vancouver
members.shaw.ca
When will Bush Liberate his closest buddies, The Saudis?
Only token municipal elections, females can't vote.

Afghanistan is only Liberated in Kabul.

But hey the "poppy business" is back to full strenght, so I guess that means more DEA jobs.
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Re: RE: What have the America

Reverend Blair said:
There have been no elections in Saudi Arabia, the USA's biggest ally in the Arab world.

no1important said:
When will Bush Liberate his closest buddies, The Saudis?
Only token municipal elections, females can't vote.


Saudi Arabia has broken a taboo. Until a year ago talk of elections was regarded as sacrilegious - Amir Taheri

Saudis have been queueing over the past few weeks to vote in the first elections in the oil-rich kingdom. To be sure, the exercise in Saudi Arabia is not a model of democracy.
...

...these elections represent an historic event. There are several reasons for this. First, a big taboo has been broken.
...

The second reason why the Saudi exercise is important is that it has revealed no significant popular opposition to the elections.
...

The third point is that these elections offer the first glimpse of an enfranchised Saudi middle class, operating free of the constraints and confines of traditional tribal politics.
...

Change in Saudi Arabia is bound to be tortuous and slow. But even this conservative society is being drawn into the Middle East’s new political pattern. That pattern began to take shape with the destruction of the Taleban in Kabul and the Baathists in Baghdad. The Afghan and Iraqi regimes represented the two grand ideas, Islamism and pan-Arab nationalism, that dominated the politics of the region since the 1960s. Now united in Iraq in what looks like their last desperate stand, these evil twins know that the spread of freedom will administer them the coup de grâce.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
63
Larnaka
Re: RE: What have the America

Paco said:
Reverend Blair said:
There have been no elections in Saudi Arabia, the USA's biggest ally in the Arab world.

no1important said:
When will Bush Liberate his closest buddies, The Saudis?
Only token municipal elections, females can't vote.


Saudi Arabia has broken a taboo. Until a year ago talk of elections was regarded as sacrilegious - Amir Taheri

Saudis have been queueing over the past few weeks to vote in the first elections in the oil-rich kingdom. To be sure, the exercise in Saudi Arabia is not a model of democracy.
...

Stop preaching your propaganda. Saudi's voted for a minority of the city council in their largest city. Women were not permitted to vote. This does not demonstrate freedom or democracy. No, you have to go a little bit further than that.

I don't believe for one second that the Saudis plan to change their ways. Just a little make-up to paint a different picture.


On Iraq and Afghanistan. Iraq is a lost war and they weren't there to liberate the country, they were there to liberate the oil. Even now, more guard is taken on the oil refineries than Iraqi institutions or people.

Special thanks to greed, the United States is heading down the path of the Soviet Union. Until one day it will completely collapse into the hole of debt that it's created. Iraq has only sped up this process with hundreds of billions of dollars being thrown into a lose cause.
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Baghdadis Boycott Syria

IRAQI BLOGGER OMAR reports on a spontaneous, grass-roots movement to boycott Syrian products in Baghdad.

After what we've seen on TV, we thought that it's totally unpatriotic to trade with that country; the Syrian government is benefiting from trade with Iraq and using the money they get to fund the criminals who slaughter our people. Not only that; the ordinary people themselves started to prefer products from other origins over Syrian products so we thought that it's better to search for alternatives for the boycotted items.

Democracy rears its ugly head.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
63
Larnaka
Paco said:
Baghdadis Boycott Syria

IRAQI BLOGGER OMAR reports on a spontaneous, grass-roots movement to boycott Syrian products in Baghdad.

After what we've seen on TV, we thought that it's totally unpatriotic to trade with that country; the Syrian government is benefiting from trade with Iraq and using the money they get to fund the criminals who slaughter our people. Not only that; the ordinary people themselves started to prefer products from other origins over Syrian products so we thought that it's better to search for alternatives for the boycotted items.

Democracy rears its ugly head.

Paco,

What gives you the idea that these blogs are infact, nothing but propaganda seeping it's way into the Internet? I have high doubts that ordinary Iraqi's have a great deal of access to the Internet in order to blog.

If these blogs are infact authentic, then they're probably coming from someone with interest in the situation... Such as American-conformist business-men. I would suspect anyone else to have different views and/or be imprisoned!
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Re: RE: What have the America

Andem said:
Paco said:
Reverend Blair said:
There have been no elections in Saudi Arabia, the USA's biggest ally in the Arab world.

no1important said:
When will Bush Liberate his closest buddies, The Saudis?
Only token municipal elections, females can't vote.


Saudi Arabia has broken a taboo. Until a year ago talk of elections was regarded as sacrilegious - Amir Taheri

Saudis have been queueing over the past few weeks to vote in the first elections in the oil-rich kingdom. To be sure, the exercise in Saudi Arabia is not a model of democracy.
...

Stop preaching your propaganda. Saudi's voted for a minority of the city council in their largest city. Women were not permitted to vote. This does not demonstrate freedom or democracy. No, you have to go a little bit further than that.

Preaching? Propaganda? :roll: Talk about the pot calling the kettle back...

I'm simply pointing out what others are saying.

You should learn to read before shooting off your mouth. The piece I link to agrees with you in that there is a long way to go yet. But they do not have a closed mind like you. They also see progress and they have hope for improvement.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: What have the America

Oh, come on! The 1960s until today? Now it's all suddenly because of the illegal invasion of Iraq and the fact that the US army killed 100,000 cililians?

Grow up Paco. The United States has been a restraining force on democracy anyplace they've been able to make a buck. That includes the Middle East, but democracy also seems to breaking out all over in South America, where they are voting to give you the Big Middle Finger.

Haven't you noticed that they voted AGAINST your guy in Iraq. He got 14%. The other 86% of Iraqis want you dead. Fortunately not too many take you seriously enough to do anything about it.

500,000+ Lebanese showed up to tell you to piss off, live and in person. The funny thing is that a lot of them were very likely at the anti-Syrian rally the day before. Know why? Because they don't want your brand of democracy. They like the kind where they get a voice instead.

Tell us again about the great democratization of Afghanistan. A few brave people in Kabul have enough democracy to vote for an American puppet.

And when is democracracy gonna break out in those other stans? How can anyone claim to be fighting totalitarianism and then give guns and money to a man who BOILS PEOPLE ALIVE for daring to talk back. For Christ sake, the man outlawed shooting pool. Nobody knows why, it was just illegal one day. The day after that, you gave him billions.

Save the crap for the rubes down there in Jesusland, Paco. The rest of us know what democracy looks like and the Bush regime can't even manage it for the US, nevermend the rest of the world.
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Re: RE: What have the America

Reverend Blair said:
Haven't you noticed that they voted AGAINST your guy in Iraq. He got 14%.

Yeah! Ain't it fucking great!

You and your like minded haters on this board predicted without doubt that the US’s man would be installed as a puppet of George Bush.

Funny how George didn’t comply with your views of him and he allowed the Iraqis to choose their own leaders. Seems that you are wrong again and again.

Like I said… Democracy rears its ugly head.
 

Andem

dev
Mar 24, 2002
5,643
128
63
Larnaka
Re: RE: What have the America

Paco said:
Reverend Blair said:
Haven't you noticed that they voted AGAINST your guy in Iraq. He got 14%.

Yeah! Ain't it *censored* great!

You and your like minded haters on this board predicted without doubt that the US’s man would be installed as a puppet of George Bush.

Funny how George didn’t comply with your views of him and he allowed the Iraqis to choose their own leaders. Seems that you are wrong again and again.

Like I said… Democracy rears its ugly head.

Come on man, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the US has a steady grip on the Iraqi government. *sigh*
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Andem said:
Paco,

What gives you the idea that these blogs are infact, nothing but propaganda seeping it's way into the Internet? I have high doubts that ordinary Iraqi's have a great deal of access to the Internet in order to blog.

If these blogs are infact authentic, then they're probably coming from someone with interest in the situation... Such as American-conformist business-men. I would suspect anyone else to have different views and/or be imprisoned!

You can read here about the authors of this blog. They are clearly pro-Iraq, pro-democracy and thankful for the liberation of Iraq. None of that means what they perceive and write is not authentic, however.

Take for example the most current commentary on the blog. They do not paint a pretty picture with regard to demands on the Iraqi government by the Kurds. It's not all rah-rah pro-America propaganda.
 

Paco

Electoral Member
Jul 6, 2004
172
0
16
7000 ft. asl and on full auto
Re: RE: What have the America

Andem said:
Come on man, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the US has a steady grip on the Iraqi government. *sigh*

Andem, I don't disagree with your assessment... for the present. The question is the future. Will America allow the Iraqis to govern themselves. I say they will. I've not doubt you will disagree. The answer will not be forthcoming for years. Only time will tell.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: What have the America

The answer is that the US has never willingly done so, the Bush government shows less of a predilection towards that than most, and the sounds of sabres rattling in the White House is making things worse instead of better.
 

EagleSmack

Hall of Fame Member
Feb 16, 2005
44,168
95
48
USA
Re: RE: What have the America

Paco said:
Andem said:
Come on man, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the US has a steady grip on the Iraqi government. *sigh*

Andem, I don't disagree with your assessment... for the present. The question is the future. Will America allow the Iraqis to govern themselves. I say they will. I've not doubt you will disagree. The answer will not be forthcoming for years. Only time will tell.

When democracy takes hold I think a lot of people will still find a way to bash the US.

Even the new PM Elect has stated the need for a US presence in Iraq. He may not be the preferred guy but he still knows what is needed.
 

Reverend Blair

Council Member
Apr 3, 2004
1,238
1
38
Winnipeg
RE: What have the America

That need was created by the illegal invasion of Iraq though, Dan. it's the equivalent of hacking somebody open with a butcher knife and then playing the hero by offering them a band-aid.