We Can’t Let John Deere Destroy the Very Idea of Ownership

[SLM]

Does everybody understand that you're basically buying the same thing (a license in the copyright material for the life of the product) when you buy a book or a record?

People don't invest the same kind of money into a book or record as they do into a vehicle, especially farm equipment. Kind of makes the definition of ownership a bit more of an issue. What about resale? For sale by owner? Who's the owner exactly, what transfers upon the sale, who is authorized to sell the item, what does the second hand buyer actually obtain and are they even entitled to it?

I would think there would be a million questions surrounding this issue.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

People don't invest the same kind of money into a book or record as they do into a vehicle, especially farm equipment. Kind of makes the definition of ownership a bit more of an issue.

Not really. Property is property, whether it's a piece of bubble gum or a two million dollar Bugatti Veyron.

What about resale?

Resale's fine. You sell the book (product), you sell the story (copyright material).

For sale by owner?

You sell the tractor, you assign the license in the software. Note that the terms of the license are "for the life of the product."

Who's the owner exactly, what transfers upon the sale, who is authorized to sell the item, what does the second hand buyer actually obtain and are they even entitled to it?

You are the owner of the tractor, which includes a license for the life of the product in the software. If you sell the tractor, you sell the physical product and assign the license. The second buyer obtains the tractor and the license in the copyright for the lifetime of the tractor.

I would think there would be a million questions surrounding this issue.

That's why they pay people like me.

 

[petros]

It like buying a really poorly written book with horrible editing and not being allowed to make corrections in the margins because it's not your book.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

It like buying a really poorly written book with horrible editing and not being allowed to make corrections in the margins because it's not your book.

It is your book.

 

[petros]

No it isn't.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

No it isn't.

Of course not. What higher authority on the law could there be than a geologist/farmer from Saskatchewan?

Go Riders!

 

[petros]

Okay Fairy Mason please explain why the book rats you out for writing in the margins.

New Holland books don't rat you out. Why do JD?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Okay Fairy Mason please explain why the book rats you out for writing in the margins.

When you write in the margins, you are not changing the copyright material. A more apposite analogy to the code would be making notes on the dashboard of your John Deere.

Analogies are necessarily inexact. As to whether you can change the code in your tractor, or change the text in your book, that's another question. If you want to discuss that, and feel you can do so without asserting you geologist/farmer supremacy, let me know.

Here's a hint: It's in the terms of the license.

 

[petros]

The code doesn't change. You are adding to it in your ECU. Using available RAM as your margins to scribble in.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

The code doesn't change. You are adding to it.

I'm sure you think that's a killer comeback. And maybe it is, once you actually connect it to something.

Is it OK if I do other stuff whilst you struggle to do that?

 

[petros]

Who owns the RAM(book margins) in the ECU?

Come on Fairy Mason...who owns those empty spaces?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Who owns the RAM(book margins) in the ECU?

Whoever's paying me.

 

[petros]

JD? You say the content is theirs the book yours, they say the book and the content is theirs you can't scribble in the margins.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

JD? You say the content is theirs the book yours, they say the book and the content is theirs you can't scribble in the margins.

No, they don't. But thanks for playing.

Ultimately, it's the old error of trying to fit new phenomena into old boxes. It'll sort out in 20-50 years. But it won't be sorted out by people who insist on thinking that their mental constructs define the universe.

 

[petros]

You have no idea what is being discussed.

Best leave it to geo farmer gear heads Mr Fairy Mason.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

You have no idea what is being discussed.

Best leave it to geo farmer gear heads Mr Fairy Mason.

You're right. The law has nothing to do with farming. My bad.

I'm sorry it scares you, petros. It'll be OK, I promise.

 

[petros]

Several manufacturers recently submitted similar comments to the Copyright Office under an inquiry into the Digital Millennium Copyright Act. DMCA is a vast 1998 copyright law that (among other things) governs the blurry line between software and hardware. The Copyright Office, after reading the comments and holding a hearing, will decide in July which high-tech devices we can modify, hack, and repair—and decide whether John Deere’s twisted vision of ownership will become a reality.

What is an ECU Mr Fairy Mason?

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

What is an ECU Mr Fairy Mason?

Sigh. It's an engine control unit.

OK? You done? Coz I am.

 

[petros]

Sigh!! No!

That's right Fairy Mason, you are done.

 

[Tecumsehsbones]

Sigh!! No!

That's right Fairy Mason, you are done.

Seriously? You're going with jargon to beat your chest?

I bet you don't even realize that your point is to be the big man, not to have a discussion.

It's amazing how the emotional need to be the king of the hill causes even well-educated people to stoop to jejeune tricks. It's a sign of their insecurity.