Vive la révolution

Blackleaf

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Oct 9, 2004
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A tale of French people moving to vibrant London to search for work and prosperity -


I watched TV news of the midweek French strike/protest/dispute, or whatever you want to call it, with a French friend.

A man, married with a four-year-old daughter and a one-year-old son, in steady employment, in his mid-forties, from the conservative south of the country, going slightly bald, who likes to complain about how his children wake him up in the night and about the transport problems he faces getting home to Ealing.

No radical, then, or so you might think: pretty much a pillar of the suburban London establishment.

But as he watched the crowds chanting and ranting and waving arms and wobbly banners, Frederic’s eyes filled with pure, revolutionary joy.

“On a toujours raison de se revolter (you’re always right if you revolt),” he hissed triumphantly, giving his cappuccino a vicious stir as if he were about to take his spoon and run out into the street, brandishing it and yelling slogans. I suppose 200-odd years of revolutionary history must have some effect even on the most placid of individual French people. The tricoteuses watching executions at the foot of the guillotine probably clicked their needles and broke off their wool at the end of each sock with the same emphatic empathy – because they too belonged to the nation that de Tocqueville once called “the most brilliant and dangerous in Europe”.

Yet I was intrigued. Until then I’d felt no great enthusiasm for the French strikers, just written them off as idiots refusing to accept necessary economic change. If it comes to that, I’d felt no more than a twinge of sympathy for the very polite English members of the Unison union, who downed tools on Tuesday because their pension perks are to be stopped - when I found out that the “preferential” pension they get now is on average just £31 a week, and stands to fall by a third under the reform. (Even then my sympathy was counterbalanced by irritation at having to work out what to do with my children, whose school was shut for the day). Why on earth was sensible Frederic so keen on the French strikers?

To recap, the French strikes (plural because there may be another one next Tuesday) are intended to stop the Government introducing a first tiny element of flexibility into France’s sclerotic employment system. At present it is almost impossible to fire anyone under French law without a long process of complaints, warnings, claims, counter-claims, and hearings at the prud’hommes, a kind of employment tribunal which can go on for months or until one party or the other, ready to die of boredom, gives in. This means that no employer in his right mind wants to take on a new employee with no experience, in case he turns out to be a dud and then the employer is lumbered with him for keeps. And that in turn means that the young, fresh out of university or school, live with 25 per cent unemployment – and worse in many of the banlieues where young people spent last autumn rioting. The bright idea of Dominique de Villepin’s Government is to make it easier to fire people under 26 – thereby encouraging employers to take more of them on in the first place. But French voters, especially the young ones who might actually benefit from the change, are dead against any change to the cosy, statist jobs-for-life system they’re used to.

This is grim for the French, but it makes London more fun. Our capital is packed with more French people than ever before, trying their luck in the land of liberalisme sauvage, the free-market system that the French hate so passionately, in search of jobs which might be less stable than those at home but at least they exist - and of giving a young French adult some experience and a first step up the employment ladder. The Lycee Francais in South Kensington is packed to the rafters with French children, and they’re no longer just the posh-banker type but a diverse crowd from up and down the social ladder. Teachers at the Lycee say there’s a ferment of internal discussion about how to accommodate all the pupils who want a place, and whether to open new branches of the school in another part of London – Wimbledon, say – to ease the pressure. You hear French on every bus and in every pub.

Frederic is one of these over-the-water refugees from French statism, hoping, like so many others, to do better out of Britain’s free-market flexibility than he might at home. But he was as incensed as any of the protesters at the idea that the French Government should do anything to change the system that had prised him away from his homeland. “Why,” he asked rhetorically, waving his foamy spoon, “should the young be penalised? Why should their jobs and security be sacrificed?”

Because you have to start somewhere? I ventured, feeling uncomfortably like Norman Tebbit. Because the young will live with more insecurity all their lives, will have to get used to it sometime and might as well start now, while they have families to help cushion the shock? Because if France can’t sort out its crushing mass unemployment what will happen to the economy? Because the aim isn’t to deprive young people of jobs but to provide more of them?

Frederic put down the coffee spoon. He’s become English enough that this sort of argument doesn’t put him in quite the quivering, frothing rage it might provoke in his compatriots. For a moment, he looked mildly intrigued.

“Yes,” he riposted, “but you can’t expect anyone French to agree with any of that.” And then he laughed, and delivered the message I had completely failed to grasp – the spirit that gets up to three million French youths mobilised and on the streets.

“Soyez realiste – demandez l’impossible,” he said cheerily, (be realistic – demand the impossible).

Of course. That attitude was so much more fun than anything I’d been saying - a proper studenty head-rush of a slogan, insisting that, in a properly constructed world, everything you want should somehow be possible. A bit of ooh-la-la crept into my soul. And for just one heady moment I found my own hand grasping my cappuccino spoon too, ready to wave it furiously above my head and rush out on the street to defend my right to liberte, egalite et fraternite and a job for life.

www.timesonline.co.uk . . .

London is now THE place to be for some French people. It's Europe's largest and richest city and will soon be its skyscraper capital, thanks to the current enormous boom in skyscraper-construction in the capital. Not only that, but it will soon overtake New York as the world's financial capital.

It's not hard to see why many French decide not to head to decrepit Paris.



Citygate Ecotower - completed 2009


Cricklewood Tower


The Shard of Glass - this will overtake Canary Wharf (also in London)as Europe's tallest building.


Heron Tower.


20 Fenchurch Street slanted building with ANOTHER of London's new skyscrapers on the left of the picture.


And the Skylon spire is returning. Originally built in 1951 to boost the morale of heavily bomb-damaged London, it glows brightly. In the picture is also the London Eye, the world's largest ferris wheel.

(Pictures as posted by Blackleaf's cool dude alter-ego on canadaka.net)
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
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I know what is wrong with you, a french women or men( depending on your sexual orientation) broke your heart??
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Blackleaf says, France is the "land of liberalisme sauvage ... free market system that the French hate so much ... French statism".

But little does he realize that French President Jacques Chirac is affiliated with the CONSERVATIVE UMP (Union for a Popular Movement) party. Therefore, France's present problems are attributable to conservatism, not to liberalism. :lol: :lol: :lol:
 

Finder

House Member
Dec 18, 2005
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gopher said:
Blackleaf says, France is the "land of liberalisme sauvage ... free market system that the French hate so much ... French statism".

But little does he realize that French President Jacques Chirac is affiliated with the CONSERVATIVE UMP (Union for a Popular Movement) party. Therefore, France's present problems are attributable to conservatism, not to liberalism. :lol: :lol: :lol:

See you forget Blackleaf doesn't work off of facts but perception. as long as he perseves the french as the expresso drinking, cigerette smoking, euro-communist french nationalists then reality doesn't... really... matter. :twisted:
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Finder, wait a minute.

I'm sure Blackleaf knows as surely as you do that
the American liberal is more conservative than
the French liberal, and the French conservative
is far more liberal than the American conservative.

So to make your critical point mean anything valid
you would have to say the French liberal version
of conservatism failed.
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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Hate to say it, but all too often right wingers fail to do their homework and they make their ignorance too painfully obvious. In another thread, some one says that Kevin Phillips is a "communist" and "traitor". Those words are shocking because Phillips is an old style Goldwater Republican.

As I just wrote to Haggis, I have not posted too often in this forum in the past few months as I used to. It is shocking to see how many hostile right wing posts now appear here. But what is equally shocking is how people fail to respond with the TRUTH to these hostile and ignorant posts.

I mean, Chirac is a "liberal"????

Phillips a "communist"????

Jezus Christmas! Somebody has got to do their homework -- and soon!
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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From an American or even British perspective Chirac
is very left leaning.

Chirac is a very Liberal conservative. So why the
surprise ? You certainly know a French conservative
is far more liberal than Brit and American conservatives.


Big deal. Talk about homework ?

Google Kevin Phillips a little more, and he's not
a Republican anymore. He was one. But not for
a long time. I wouldn't call him a communist either,
so I agree with you there.

This is just giving a little more accuracy.

This is not about saying which philosophy is better.

Chirac used to be Mayor of Paris in the mid to late
1960s and was much more conservative back then.

You know how "they" say the American liberal is more
conservative than a Canadian liberal ?

Well this is kind of the same thing.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
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Its not who is in power that matters. What matters are the policies currently in place, whether or not the current government has implemented those policies. The French have what they call a "social-market" economy. They have for decades, and it has been re-inforced by conservative and socialist parties alike.

France has a different system of government than Canada or the US. France can have a President and a Prime Minister from different parties. I believe the delineation of powers are that the President controls foreign affairs while the Prime Minister controls domestic affairs (though someone feel free to elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong.) I believe before the current PM, the PM was from the socialist party. That government changed the work week from 40 hours to 35 hours with no change in pay, great for those who work but enormously bad for those who don't. (Stunningly and incompetently, the government tried to say that this would decrease unemployment, which of course, it did not.)

France is in some ways highly free-market and globalized, i.e. 40% of the stock of the companies listed on the Paris bourse are owned by foreigners. They have also privatized France Electricity.

However, Chirac and the conservatives have proven to be highly interventionist and non-free market. They have shown no interest in repealing farm subsidies. They recently listed 11 industries as "strategic", disallowing foreign takeovers of those industries, including casinos. They directly intervened in a potential merger between Suez and an Italian company, and arranged a shotgun marriage between France Electricity and Suez, which is consistent with France's stated (and not-particularly free market) policy of developing national champions. And when you consider the outright hostility towards globalization, the rejection of the European constitution, and the "anglo-American" model - while its economy stagnates - its no wonder the government doesn't take radical steps to open the market.

So to say that the problems of France are because of "conservatism" - unless you mean interventionist, statist, Gaullist, non-free market French conservatism - is misguided.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Hey Toro, do you not think certain industries should
be strategic to a nation like when Truman tried
to nationalize the Steel Industry ?

Anyway, your excellent post aptly captures the milieu
in which liberal and conservative thinking is colored
by.

Which is why one nation's conservative is considered
liberal in another country whose overall economic
policy is quite different.
 

Toro

Senate Member
May 24, 2005
5,468
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Jimmy

I think the strongest arguments for restrictions in foreign investment are in media and financials services. However, technology - which is the true driver of globalization - are making those restrictions less relevant.
 

Curiosity

Senate Member
Jul 30, 2005
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Toro

I found it interesting and astute of your choice of expression:

I believe the delineation of powers are that the President controls foreign affairs while the Prime Minister controls domestic affairs (though someone feel free to elaborate or correct me if I'm wrong.

"Controls" being the operant word! No doubt quite true!
 

gopher

Hall of Fame Member
Jun 26, 2005
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"Google Kevin Phillips a little more, and he's not
a Republican anymore. "

That's what certain Republicans say about Bush with his interventionism and pork barrel spending.

As for Chirac, the French certainly have alternatives by electing leftist pols into office. This would likely result in peaceful streets without any job related rioting.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
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Re: RE: Vive la révolution

gopher said:
Hate to say it, but all too often right wingers fail to do their homework and they make their ignorance too painfully obvious. In another thread, some one says that Kevin Phillips is a "communist" and "traitor". Those words are shocking because Phillips is an old style Goldwater Republican.

As I just wrote to Haggis, I have not posted too often in this forum in the past few months as I used to. It is shocking to see how many hostile right wing posts now appear here. But what is equally shocking is how people fail to respond with the TRUTH to these hostile and ignorant posts.

I mean, Chirac is a "liberal"????

Phillips a "communist"????

Jezus Christmas! Somebody has got to do their homework -- and soon!


Right winger doesnt have the intellect to do their homework, they let tv shows, radio host to do it for them, that is the difference beetween right and left.
 

jimmoyer

jimmoyer
Apr 3, 2005
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Aeon, I would NOT praise Gopher's remarks too well, for he
who praises homework did not do the homework himself
too well.

Gopher learned a little thing, that Kevin Phillips is
a Goldwater Republican.

That fact is only true in the past tense.

As always, the cartoon is embraced, but the facts
are always different from the cartoon.

As always, a fact is learned, and people race onward
with it, but that does not define the essence of
homework.

Get my drift ?

Clue: Don't quote the first article on the first page of Google.

Look a little more.

Kevin Phillips is neither Republican NOW nor Communist nor
anywhere near Conservative.


I, myself started as a liberal Democrat in America and owe much
of my interest to the issues of the day to John F Kennedy, but
that no longer defines me now, yet I will owe my gratititude to those who inspired me.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
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Re: RE: Vive la révolution

jimmoyer said:
Aeon, I would NOT praise Gopher's remarks too well, for he
who praises homework did not do the homework himself
too well.

Gopher learned a little thing, that Kevin Phillips is
a Goldwater Republican.

That fact is only true in the past tense.

As always, the cartoon is embraced, but the facts
are always different from the cartoon.

As always, a fact is learned, and people race onward
with it, but that does not define the essence of
homework.

Get my drift ?

Clue: Don't quote the first article on the first page of Google.

Look a little more.

Kevin Phillips is neither Republican NOW nor Communist nor
anywhere near Conservative.


I, myself started as a liberal Democrat in America and owe much
of my interest to the issues of the day to John F Kennedy, but
that no longer defines me now, yet I will owe my gratititude to those who inspired me.


You are going to have to explain to me, how in the states democrates are considered as liberals?? democrates arent liberals, they are still right wing in my view. Ralh nader is a liberal.