Very Interesting article I found: Canadian vs. American

[Anonymous]

It's a question of opinion and I fully respect yours.

I personnaly come to the conclusion that it's really a subject that concerned only the French Québécois. Each time a try to have a discussion about that with a English Canadian, they just don't get the point.

And it always turn that we are NOTHING without you... Come on, we are not that seek.

 

[Andem]

It's not that you cant discuss it with English Canadians. We're just stating the facts. And as you respect my opinion, I respect yours 100%. I understand you want to leave Canada... Im just saying its not economically viable for either of us, so whats the point? We both know money makes the world go round these days. Its all about the money, and quebec seperating is a waste of money.

 

[Anonymous]

Please, take some time to read seriously the first adress I have posted. It's talk about the economic values of Québec. You trusts facts? You'll find facts there. Not only emotional arguments but thrue facts who can talk for me...
By the way, it's cool talking with you!

 

[Shmad]

I dont really think any side gains if Quebec does seperate from Canada, from one point of view, Canada loses a lot, but from another Quebec does as well considering the Federal government *DOES* own a lot of land in Quebec.. therefore not all of Quebec would be able to seperate, it would be a nightmare, and cost both sides more money than its bloody worth. I dont know why people just cant friggin get along. French, english, whats really the difference.. I dont see how Quebec people can hate Canada so much considering its one of the highest rated countries to live in.

Just gunna leave it at this: neither side would benefit from a seperation.

 

[czardogs]

I found this text very interesting.
Be honest, Canadians ARE Americans, they just don't have the same name. However, Quebecois are not Canadians and not Americans. I'm glad to be Québécois. And I can't imagine how you can be proud of being what you are, Canadian! Canada is just a fake concept. One day, Québec will separate and then you'll be assimilated by the US. Think to it.

Good kiss from Montréal...

If your so sure that Canada will be assimilated then how in the world would quebec stand a chance of not suffering the same fate? Really tell me I want to know, so do 60-70 other small nations on this planet earth. Canada is the small fry of the G8, Quebec by itself is not even a fish, more like an amoeba. Canada needs Quebec and Quebec most certainly needs Canada if we are to stand any chance.

 

[czardogs]

You can't believe how Québec CAN easily live without Canada. Check this. http://www.finances.gouv.qc.ca/en/documents/pdf/pfq_en.pdf
and this : http://www.mri.gouv.qc.ca/english/bibliotheque/index.html

The text you showed us clearly say that without Québec, Canada is very similar to USA. It's good for you to keep us because it gives you another distinction. Unfortunately, it's bad for us. I know you understand. If you were in our place, what would you think? Honnestly.

But don't think I dislike Canadians. I realy like them. But if you don't consider yourself as a Canadian, I can definitely say that I AM NOT Canadian... so what do I do here? I don't know. :wink:
Ciao!

Sorry its neopolitical and neoeconomic BS. The reality of todays world discludes the reasoning of the above. Globalization has changed everything. Canada as a whole is on the brink of no return, Quebec on its own just does not stand a chance. The only gain I could see from a complete seperation would be getting the new nation of Quebec out of the bad trade deals and other lousy agreements Canada has signed as a whole. Problem is, with the worlds markets, banks and commerce all being controlled by a smaller and smaller number of elitists and bankers, the economy of Quebec would be entangled and ensnared very quickly.

On a side note, I spent one year living outside of Montreal, and I will agree that there is a different culture and identity in Quebec than in other parts of Canada, but I just dont see it as a viable reason to seperate. Here in Vancouver their are very large and very distinct East Indian, and Chinese communities. Both groups take pride in keeping ties to their heritage while being part of a greater whole - Canada. Quebec should and already is recognized as a distinct society within Canada, they are just a part of the many different parts that make up our shared whole.

 

[Anonymous]

I don't agree with you.
Maybe money can buy anything, but I prefer thinking the world is what we made of it. If you think globalization is a fatality, it is your way of thinking and you are really not alone who think like this.

It's a question of respect and dignity, more than a question of money why Québec want to separate. Money is not all... And if we are only a fish in the world, well, we will be a fish in big sea full of sharks. The fact that we are speaking french is our protection to not be assimilated. That's what I think. [/list][/quote]

 

[Anonymous]

This message (up) is from de-Gaules.

 

[Andem]

I know exactly what you mean when trying to protect your culture and language. Quebec has been so successful in doing this. I don't blame quebecers who want to seperate. However, there is a cost associated with cutting ties with Canada. This could dramatically downgrade standard of living and economy. That's all im trying to say.

 

[de-Gaules]

Yes, that is true.
And it's kind of sad to want to brake this country because it is real that we are very good living, especialy in Québec because I think we are a little "cry baby" and federal gov gives us all we want. All except one thing, the most important.

And we really don't want to put Canada in debt. That is not our goal.

 

[czardogs]

As a seperatist could you please list your reasoning for wanting to leave Canada?

Many in the West just dont see why. Quebec is the second largest province yet receives a disporportianate amount of federal funds. Quebec is free to keep its language laws in place, and has control over culture withen its provincial boundries. Quebec also has substantial representation in the House of Commons and Senate, much unlike the West. Please explain the seperatist reasoning as millions of Western Canadians are obviously blind to your concerns.

 

[de-Gaules]

Don't see it from the negativ point of view : we don't want to separate, we want to be sovereign. Do you have a problem with the fact that people in general, everywhere in the world, want to be sovereign? Do you know what it's mean to be sovereign? It's the liberty, the possibility to talk by ourself to the rest of the world (not under another nation control who don't represent ourself the right way). Sovereignty is the inverse of Domination.

Nobody like's to be under another nation control. And that is the situation for us since the French loose the war. You want exemple of the English domination? Fine.

- How do you explain that each city in Québec have a street called "Moncton"? Moncton was hired by England to eliminate the French in Canada. He personnaly kill women, childrens, old persons, he have burned more than 10 000 house in the Saint-Lawrence Valley, etc. There is even a city who wear his name!

- At the Québec Summit last year, Quebec government asked to have is own seat and be able to talk and say his opinions. This as been refused. The summit was here in our land!

- Do you know that in 1982, 9 provinces have signed the Constitution. This constitution say a lot of things but one is particulary important : Québec people are no more a "peuple fondateur" but only a ethnic communauty. Wich is wrong. Everybody know that the oldest city in Canada (Québec city) have been builted by French. Is the only place in the world where a constitution have been adopted without the OK of all the governmental voice. In 2002, this Constitution is still not signed by Québec but we are forced to live under it's control anyway.


And there is more and more exemples...

So, you in the West who just "don't understand our reclams"... Man... open your eyes, there is something wrong in this country!

 

[Shmad]

De-Gaules, I do agree with you on a lot of the points, I guess really the only point I have is everyone else shouldnt have to speak french in Quebec. Like hey Im visiting, I know a fair bit of french.. so I'm talking away and then they say derogitory things about me, etc. That shouldnt happen. If someone is french and talking english to me, I help them out when they are trying to say something, we have Chinese exchange students in the house next door who I talk to frequently and 1 french exchange student who I talk to in the house beside us as well frequently. We talk in both french and english and help each other out on what we're trying to say.

This is not the case in Quebec. Im not saying you in particular, but a vast bit of Quebecors make English speaking folk feel like morons because they cant grasp it.

As for the sovereign situation, this is something that has been tried in BC and Alberta for years, there are groups that want that, I dont think it would be such a bad thing either. Infact I'd support it, but I dont think splitting from Canada as a whole would be a wise move for BC, Alberta OR Quebec. We all help each other out in our own ways, its true Ontario is 99.9% of the governments focus, we get ignored here out in the West as you do in Quebec.

Its not that we disagree with what you are saying, its just that seperation from the Country would be a bad idea. Maybe having the Provincial governments having FULL say over their provinces would not be a bad idea, but from a Federal level this would be a no-no, especially if ppl keep electing the damn liberals!

Thats my 2 cents.. keep the change.

 

[czardogs]

De-Gaules, I do agree with you on a lot of the points, I guess really the only point I have is everyone else shouldnt have to speak french in Quebec. Like hey Im visiting, I know a fair bit of french.. so I'm talking away and then they say derogitory things about me, etc. That shouldnt happen. If someone is french and talking english to me, I help them out when they are trying to say something, we have Chinese exchange students in the house next door who I talk to frequently and 1 french exchange student who I talk to in the house beside us as well frequently. We talk in both french and english and help each other out on what we're trying to say.

This is not the case in Quebec. Im not saying you in particular, but a vast bit of Quebecors make English speaking folk feel like morons because they cant grasp it.

As for the sovereign situation, this is something that has been tried in BC and Alberta for years, there are groups that want that, I dont think it would be such a bad thing either. Infact I'd support it, but I dont think splitting from Canada as a whole would be a wise move for BC, Alberta OR Quebec. We all help each other out in our own ways, its true Ontario is 99.9% of the governments focus, we get ignored here out in the West as you do in Quebec.

Its not that we disagree with what you are saying, its just that seperation from the Country would be a bad idea. Maybe having the Provincial governments having FULL say over their provinces would not be a bad idea, but from a Federal level this would be a no-no, especially if ppl keep electing the damn liberals!

Thats my 2 cents.. keep the change.

I to can agree with what you are saying, both of you. But dont take me out of context. I will agee that each and every person and group of people has the inherant right to self determination. I will not stand in the way of that, what I and Shmad are saying is, we need each-other for better or worse. French Canadians should be proud of their contribution to the Canadian whole.

I will not agree with the "domination". That is just not true in Quebec today. I lived there for over a year so I have first hand experience. Yes the Federal government keeps Quebec from representing itself in trade deals etc, but they do that to every province, there is no favorites played.

Again as I said earlier, Quebec has been given the opportunity to follow a course much unlike any of the other provinces. That is a good thing and I have no problem with that. What irks Western Canadians is we ARE ignored as we dont vote Liberal, but Quebec does get preferential treatment and still some want to leave.
On that point I can see where you are coming from on the idea of alienation from the rest of the state, but really its no different province to province. Its the uniqueness of each of the provinces that makes Canada what it is.

I believe that many of your concerns would be addressed if Ottawa gave more power and authority back to the provinces, there again I have no problem as this is a good idea. Ottawa is far to centralized and out of touch with the common man/woman. That is a symptom of bad government, not English domination over French.

 

[Shmad]

Ontario controls (essentially) who gains control of this country, and lets face it Ontario *IS* a liberal province. I cant remember the last time Ontario voted anything but liberals.

What we need is people to wake up, rub their eyes and SEE what is really going on, sure they might already know and not care what Ottawa is doing to the rest of the countries provinces, but what they have to understand and think about is, how would they feel if they lived in another province and their own Federal government gave THEM the cold shoulder. So much for Representing and being held accountable by the people. More like representing Ontario and being held accountable by Ontario citizens.

I'm sorry, but thats the cold hard truth. If everything from Quebec West seperated we would probably thrive. But then again, maybe not. If from Quebec all the way to the west all at once threatened to seperate from Canada and all make their OWN ONE country, then I think that MIGHT jar some sense into the Federal government.

The fact is, Quebec, and ALL western provinces have been ignored by the left wing liberal government, and that wont change anytime soon.. I would think if a right wing government got in that would change, but lets all face it, I dont think anyone wants a completely right wing government in full power of the country.

Too bad we all lack the funding to make our own political party with all of us in it and do something nice with this country, then again, what would it matter, Ontario would still decide who wins the election..

 

[de-Gaules]

Maybe you are right. Both of you have good arguments. I don't know how this will end up.
I'm sorry for Shmad if people laught at you when you was here. There is stupid person everywhere. For myself, I never went to English Canada but at the end of the summer I'll go at Prince-Edward-Island and I hope people will be kind with me. Because I think my writing English is not that bad, but my speaking English is terrible and I'm shy to speak in English. That is not good. There is too much people in Québec who don't speak english.

 

[Shmad]

Your welcome to come to BC, its such a beautiful place. You have to come here at least once. The scenery is breath taking. The people are (generally nice -- stay away from vancouver lol). But its a nice place. I'd recommend some year going to the Okanogan in BC. Its so beautiful up here.

 

[de-Gaules]

I did'nt know that the Western province was ignore. Here when we ear talking about BC and the West, it's always like :"They are rich", "they have a great weather" "They have beautiful people"...

 

[Vincent_2002]

HAHAHAHA.. The west isnt rich.. They are rich in resources. That's the only economy they have really. Goto Vancouver and see that our weather in Montréal is much nicer ;-))

 

[de-Gaules]

But they don't have snow and winter... that is what I call great weather