Veiled teacher is facing the sack.

[Kreskin]

I wouldn't want someone veiled teaching my kid. The school isn't about her and her religious practise, it's about the students. If she doesn't like it she can find another line of work. Perhaps she could work in telephone sales.

 

[gopher]

```The school isn't about her and her religious practise, it's about the students.```

Or more precisely, about the students and public safety. As I mentioned previously, under the Anglo-Saxon common law, a community has the right to determine for itself what are its standards of conduct, morality, and safety. Here, the community determined that the safety needs of its youth override those religious or personal concerns of the claimant. Therefore, it had the right to vote as it did. As one with a law degree, I am in accord with the legal reasoning used by that legal body.

 

[CDNBear]

```The school isn't about her and her religious practise, it's about the students.```

Or more precisely, about the students and public safety. As I mentioned previously, under the Anglo-Saxon common law, a community has the right to determine for itself what are its standards of conduct, morality, and safety. Here, the community determined that the safety needs of its youth override those religious or personal concerns of the claimant. Therefore, it had the right to vote as it did. As one with a law degree, I am in accord with the legal reasoning used by that legal body.

Absolutely correct Gopher, but the issue is, that some Muslims, are trying to force their way of life on us.

I do realise that by invading Muslim strong holds like Afghanistan and Iraq, we are doig the same thing, but that does not make it right.

 

[northstar]

the issue is, that some Muslims, are trying to force their way of life on us.

I do realise that by invading Muslim strong holds like Afghanistan and Iraq, we are doig the same thing, but that does not make it right.

What on earth,{ and l don't mean the 'EARTH' here who has now threatened me 3 times, } are you getting at here Bear, are you suggesting that the Muslim Jihad Veil and Burka KKK -I am not scaring these chidren l am making a political statement- incident has anything at all to do with how we RESPONDED to a declaration of war in order to defend world freedom and peace.

The only co-relation here , BEAR is that is both a form of terrorism by Jihad Muslims.And like the action and declarations of War that we responded to, this needs to be quashed in the same way.

 

[CDNBear]

What on earth,{ and l don't mean the 'EARTH' here who has now threatened me 3 times, } are you getting at here Bear, are you suggesting that the Muslim Jihad Veil and Burka KKK -I am not scaring these chidren l am making a political statement- incident has anything at all to do with how we RESPONDED to a declaration of war in order to defend world freedom and peace.

The only co-relation here , BEAR is that is both a form of terrorism by Jihad Muslims.And like the action and declarations of War that we responded to, this needs to be quashed in the same way.

I was responding to the gopher, and knowing full well his next act would be to use Christian history, yet again, I let him know, I already know it.

There is a difference between a metered response to a declaration of war, and the forced democratisation of another nation. In my opinion, the best response would have been to quietly apply a 50 cal. sniper round the head of OBL and the leader of Afghanistan and subsiquently to any leader that took his spot. Until a leader stood up and said, "Lets rethink this whole training ground for terrorists thing and maybe the West ain't so bad".

And my opinion on the veil is still the same, go wear it, just not in my sons school, or in your photo ID. Other then that, I could care less. I'm glad she lost, and even happier she got canned. Muslims, really need to re-assess why they moved to the West to begin with, if all they want to do is change it into the mess they ran from.

 

[northstar]

AHHHHHhhhh! The mist is clearing, now l see, but darn l missed the Goffie's Christian flogging thread, rats!!!!

 

[gopher]

The teacher in this case is not enjoined from teaching in another district. But she also needs to be mindful of the fact that the UK has laws that protect against gender discrimination -- recall that she said she is not allowed to work with men. This suggests she wants men to be kept from working in the teaching profession and that is an impossibility in the UK as in the USA or in Canada.

 

[Chukcha]

This suggests she wants men to be kept from working in the teaching profession and that is an impossibility in the UK as in the USA or in Canada.

complete discrimination. what can I say.

 

[northstar]

it is scarey that we all agree, and well said Gopher!!!!

 

[gopher]

Thank you.

Unfortunately, the petitioner in this case believes that a preference on her part (rather than a legal right) was not being protected by the jurisdiction. She needs to understand that preferences are not the same thing as legal rights. When a legal right is in jeopardy, the jurisdiction has the burden of proof to prove that its actions are lawful. When a preference is potentially being jeopardized, that burden falls upon the petitioner. A burden she failed to meet. Therefore, her rights were not jeopardized at all. Rather it was the rights of the majority in that district that were potentially being jeopardized by her preferences. That is why the jurisdiction ruled the way it did and why it will likely be upheld if it is appealed in a higher forum.

 

[earth_as_one]

the 'EARTH' here who has now threatened me 3 times,

Link please

 

[earth_as_one]

The teacher in this case is not enjoined from teaching in another district. But she also needs to be mindful of the fact that the UK has laws that protect against gender discrimination -- recall that she said she is not allowed to work with men. This suggests she wants men to be kept from working in the teaching profession and that is an impossibility in the UK as in the USA or in Canada.

This was way overblown. A few compromises and everyone would have been satified.

She's comfortable around men when she's wearing a veil. So she can wear the veil to staff meetings and to/from class.

She's comfortable around children without the veil. Therefore she can teach without it. Her problem would be men barging in unannounced. It would be reasonable and polite if men knock first and wait until she opens the door.

In the event of an emergency, she would have to remove any clothing which interfered with her evacuation duties. If I understand the Quran correctly (I'm not an expert,) I believe it allows exceptions to rules in emergencies.

I see no serious problems here that can't be overcome by logic and compromise.

If this women was a good teacher, it wouldn't matter to me if she dressed like Bozo the clown every day. I imagine her students benefit from the experience of someone who has travelled and lived in different countries and speaks more than one language.

The one thing she asks is the right not to reveal her face to men. Nothing more.

Because it means compromise with a race/religion/culture some of us fear and/or hate, she has been forced to choose between being true to her religion/culture and earning a living.

Not only that, but she has been publically humilated. If she feels exposed by just showing her face to men, imagine what being hounded by the world press must have felt like.

I feel sorry for the women. This news story has bee like a public flogging. Shame on us.

 

[Chukcha]

If I understand the Quran correctly (I'm not an expert,) I believe it allows exceptions to rules in emergencies.

Wow! you're not an expert after all, gee, surprise, surprise.
Emergencies? You're kidding right? This IS AN EMERGENCY - HELLO - TERRORISM IS AN EMERGENCY!!!

The one thing she asks is the right not to reveal her face to men. Nothing more.

The one thing I am asking is for her to TAKE OFF THAT VEIL - is it too much to ask? Or I will be asking for the Mosque to allow me to come in wearing g-strings, I am feeling very comfortable and cool, is that too much to ask? Get over it, get over it, get over it, get over it, etc, etc, etc.

 

[northstar]

Chutcha, don't bother with earth, she just is living on the moon and feeling self-righteous about taking a postiion that it is okay for a teacher that is put in a position of trust can terrorize little children...

Here is an update on the Burka and mask situation as it is just by coincidence {sure...}suddenly being an issue as the entire free world is shown once again just how discriminatory and racist the Muslim religion is-

Dutch MPs to decide on burqa ban
By Mark Mardell
Europe editor, BBC News, Brussels



The Dutch government will announce over the next few weeks whether it will make it a crime to wear traditional Islamic dress which covers the face apart from the eyes.
The Dutch parliament has already voted in favour of a proposal to ban the burqa outside the home, and some in the government have thrown their weight behind it. ..

"It's a medieval symbol, a symbol against women," he says.
"We don't want women to be ashamed to show who they are. Even if you have decided yourself to do that, you should not do it in Holland, because we want you to be integrated, assimilated into Dutch society. If people cannot see who you are, or see one inch of your body or your face, I believe this is not the way to integrate into our society."
'Identifiable'
I interviewed Mr Wilders inside parliament after several security checks. Two tough bodyguards stood close by throughout. This country, once the epitome of easy-going liberalism, is edgier, less tolerant these days.

Theo Van Gogh was a well-known critic of fundamentalist Islam
Mr Wilders' name was included on a list of "infidels, who deserved to be slaughtered", which was found pinned to the body of filmmaker Theo Van Gogh.
Van Gogh was murdered two years ago for making the film about women and Islam called "Submission". It starts with a shot of a woman's face covered by a burqa. Slowly the camera shows that, from the neck downwards, she's naked but for a thin veil.
Mr Wilders has explicitly linked his wish for a burqa ban with terrorism.
"We have problems with a growing minority of Muslims who tend to have sympathy with the Islamo-fascistic concept of radical Islam," says Mr Wilders.
"That's also a reason why everybody should be identifiable when they walk on the street or go to a pub or go into a restaurant or whatsoever."

...I asked her what she would say to people who would say: "If you want to fit into the West, live here, wear a business suit; wear jeans - don't wear what you're wearing. Don't wear a niqab."

In the city of Maaseik, in Belgium - which lies a few hundred yards from the Dutch border - a ban on wearing the niqab is already in place. Mayor Jan Creemers said he brought it forward because old people were afraid and children cried when women started appearing in long black robes with their faces covered.

...The husband of the woman who defies the ban is being held in connection with the Madrid bombings.

the burka and mask is being seen for what it really is a show of contempt...

 

[northstar]

From CTV 2006 on this link -
for anyone who wants to see the different types of cover-up and gain an insight into the burka and the background-
http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNe..._061006/20061006/?hub=World&subhub=PrintStory

BURKA

​

Burqa clad women leave Afghanistan at the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan in Torkham, Pakistan. (AP / John McConnico)

Rarely seen now outside of Afghanistan, Pakistan and northern India, the burka is the most concealing of all veils.
The full or "Afghan" burka typically covers a woman's entire body and face except for the area around the eyes, which is covered by a concealing, finely-woven mesh screen.
Blue is a common colour for the burka, which is made out of two pieces of material sewn together and fastened at the sides and in the middle.
The cap from which the material hangs is sometimes decorated with embroidery.
Under the burka, wearers will commonly wear an abayeh -- a large black cloak with arm holes. Although Iraqi Muslim women are known to wear items such as shorts and t-shirts, or even a bikini, when it's hot.

just some insight on this topic....

 

[Chukcha]

Chutcha, don't bother with earth, she just is living on the moon and feeling self-righteous about taking a postiion that it is okay for a teacher that is put in a position of trust can terrorize little children...

Here is an update on the Burka and mask situation as it is just by coincidence {sure...}suddenly being an issue as the entire free world is shown once again just how discriminatory and racist the Muslim religion is-



the burka and mask is being seen for what it really is a show of contempt...

Thaaaaanks....
Finally, I hope it gets transformed into the democratic politicians heads.

 

[gopher]

``` She's comfortable around men when she's wearing a veil... The one thing she asks is the right not to reveal her face to men. Nothing more.```


It appears to go deeper than that. Look again in the initial post which reads in pertinent part:


Mr Woolas also said that permitting Ms Azmi to specify that she only worked with females discriminated against men.
He told the newspaper: "If she is saying that she won't work with men, she is taking away the right of men to work in schools.


Evidently, she said that she only works with women and suggests that men should not be employed as teachers or as administrators. This constitutes gender based discrimination against men and would not be permissable under UK law.

As I mentioned above, there is absolutely nothing in the Koran which mandates the use of a burqa or which enforces separations of genders in employment or in social situations. Moreover, a society that cherishes the concept of freedom from religion is under no obligation to recognize a personal preference or a religious concept that is construed as jeopardizing society's safety or are violative of its laws.

If you have read my posts on Islamophobia, you know that I have stood up for Islam on many occasions. The subject here, however, does not constitute Islamophobia nor is the petitioner enjoined from practicing her religion in any way. She has failed to demonstrate that her position on burqas are based on valid Koranic teachings (which they are not), she has failed to demonstrate that her request is within the UK's province of protecting religious practice, she has failed to demonstrate that her request is not violative of UK law as it causes gender based discrimination. On that basis, it cannot be truthfully said she is a victim of "fear and/or hate" as you put it.

One last thing: if she has been "publically humilated", and you feel sorry for her, imagine what how the men felt or feel who have been or who would be forced to leave the room when she entered. If it was I who was forced to leave the room because of her preferences, I would feel highly embarassed as would anyone else.