USA distancing itself from Canada

[JomZ]

It comes up from time to time in your media personalities, and its kind of vile.

On November 30, as President Bush visited Canada to meet with Canadian Prime Minister Paul Martin in an effort to improve the two countries' strained relations, right-wing pundit Ann Coulter and CNN Crossfire co-host Tucker Carlson ridiculed the United States' northern neighbor. On FOX News Channel's Hannity & Colmes, Coulter said that Canadians "better hope the United States doesn't roll over one night and crush them. They are lucky we allow them to exist on the same continent." On CNN's Wolf Blitzer Reports, Carlson stated: "Without the U.S., Canada is essentially Honduras, but colder and much less interesting"; he went on to say that instead of following politics, "the average Canadian is busy dogsledding." And on Crossfire, Carlson referred to the "limpid, flaccid nature of Canadian society."

http://mediamatters.org/items/200412010011

 

[the caracal kid]

JomZ,

Coulter is an ignoramus plain and simple.

The disturbing thing about "talking heads" like Coulter is that people believe what is spewed forth as fact.

I remember reading the transcript from i think it was W5 where an interview with Coulter was hilarious as the interviewer had to keep correcting her on "the facts".

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: USA distancing itself from Canada

It comes up from time to time in your media personalities, and its kind of vile.

I agree, that is a very nasty thing to say, but like you said, media personalities. Now take under consideration what Wednesday's Child said, she has met only one person bashing Canada, and he was a whacko. Now also take under consideration, students in Toronto? yelling and screaming, that we deserved 9/11.

See a difference?

 

[tracy]

Re: RE: USA distancing itself from Canada

It comes up from time to time in your media personalities, and its kind of vile.

I agree, that is a very nasty thing to say, but like you said, media personalities. Now take under consideration what Wednesday's Child said, she has met only one person bashing Canada, and he was a whacko. Now also take under consideration, students in Toronto? yelling and screaming, that we deserved 9/11.

See a difference?

It was actually me that said that.

Anyways, the difference is that we know about you. Our news is largely about America and America's actions in the world. The reason most Americans don't criticize Canada in the same way is that they don't know anything about Canada. I would argue those students are probably the same fringe element as people like Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson. I lived in Toronto then and didn't hear anyone screaming about America deseving 9/11. I did hear a lot of criticism of American foreign policy. Some I agreed with, some I didn't, but no one I knew thought innocent people getting killed was a good thing.

By the same token, did you see the massive show of support for America after 9/11?

 

[JomZ]

Well one difference is that, Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson are media personalities and command a larger audience then some student demonstrations on either side of the border. (Personally, no one deserved 9/11)

But like Caracal said both Coulter and Carlson are just pundits who ooze rederict and nationalistic fervour that only incited divisivness on issues that they have little info on (Coulter believed that Canada sent troops to Vietnam).

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: USA distancing itself from Canada

It was actually me that said that.

Anyways, the difference is that we know about you. Our news is largely about America and America's actions in the world. The reason most Americans don't criticize Canada in the same way is that they don't know anything about Canada. I would argue those students are probably the same fringe element as people like Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson. I lived in Toronto then and didn't hear anyone screaming about America deseving 9/11. I did hear a lot of criticism of American foreign policy. Some I agreed with, some I didn't, but no one I knew thought innocent people getting killed was a good thing.

By the same token, did you see the massive show of support for America after 9/11?

I didn't say the entire city of Toronto was screaming, I said students in a University, which one escapes me for now. It was shown on C-SPAN, not in the mainstream media. A Professor was holding a seminar in regards to 9/11. The point I am trying to make however is that every little thing said in our media regarding Canada is blown out of proportion to apparently imply that Americans bash Canadians, when quite the contrary, most Americans barely realize Canada even exists. And the ones who do, never have anything bad to say about Canada.

On the other hand, I have seen the outpouring of support from Canadians post 9/11 and the continuing support they provide on other issues. But, human beings, get attached to the "bad news" and never look at the good side of anything. To even suggest there is anti-Canadian sentiment in the US borders insane, I can't say the same for Canada (in reverse), can I?

 

[I think not]

Re: RE: USA distancing itself from Canada

Well one difference is that, Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson are media personalities and command a larger audience then some student demonstrations on either side of the border. (Personally, no one deserved 9/11)

But like Caracal said both Coulter and Carlson are just pundits who ooze rederict and nationalistic fervour that only incited divisivness on issues that they have little info on (Coulter believed that Canada sent troops to Vietnam).

Ann Coulter and Tucker Carlson are extemists and only extremists will believe half the things they say, hardly catering to mainstream America. Canada never sent troops to Vietnam, although some 30,000 Canadians crossed the border to join the US military in Vietnam. Perhaps she got confused, big surprise there. :roll:

 

[Curiosity]

JomZ

The media people do this to get attention.

I was referring to (and I hope Tracy was as well) real people - the kind of folk you run into at the supermarket, going to work, mowing their lawns or walking their dogs....

Not the flaks who are paid to stir the pot.

I have heard CBC people broadcasting down here on CSPAN who are so snotty I want to throw crumpets at the television...and scream...Canadians just aren't like that ... not the real ones....and get embarrassed. I don't like being talked down to by anyone from any country.

 

[JomZ]

Yeah it seems the media is the problem when it comes to exploiting conflict, in a political sense. That does rather make me glad that places like this exist where these topics can be talked about in a professional and realistic matter.

 

[sanch]

Re: RE: USA distancing itself from Canada

It comes up from time to time in your media personalities, and its kind of vile.

I agree, that is a very nasty thing to say, but like you said, media personalities. Now take under consideration what Wednesday's Child said, she has met only one person bashing Canada, and he was a whacko. Now also take under consideration, students in Toronto? yelling and screaming, that we deserved 9/11.

See a difference?

It was in Ottawa I believe and the speaker was Sunera Thobani.

http://www.middleeast.org/read.cgi?...&standalone=&month=10&year=2001&function=text

 

[tracy]

Was it at Carlton by any chance?

 

[I think not]

I believe that is correct tracy. Anyway, it doesn't really matter since its just one example from many.

 

[pastafarian]

No one ever said the US "deserved" 9/11. At least Sunera Thobani didn't. I think Pat Robertson said something about people deserving it, but that's just one religious nut commenting on the actions of other religious nuts.

I actually read her speech that had the right-wingers, red-faced and screaming spittle-drenched insults at her. She said that in light of US foreign policy, such an attack was not surprising or something to that effect.

When a child sticks its finger into an electric socket, we can say the child caused its demise, but only an idiot or moral cripple would say the child "deserved" it.

 

[sanch]

The topic here I believe is related to the US distancing itself from Canada. Thobani post 9/11 was the most recognized voice of anti-Americanism in the US, primarily because Matt Drudge brought it up. There was also the issue of the hate crime statute explored in relation to Thobani's comments. I believe Hedy Fry and other politcians who were there also later distanced themsleves from the remarks and so it was not only right wingers who thought she had gone over the line. You do have to remember that tax payer money funded this conference and paid for Thobani's expenses. Here is the text of the speech.

http://www.yorku.ca/cwsaacef/cwsaacef/memb/cwsa_publications/exclusive_pub_m.html

 

[tracy]

I believe that is correct tracy. Anyway, it doesn't really matter since its just one example from many.

The reason I asked is because Carlton is becoming known for having radical students. A riot ensued there when one student association invited a former Israeli pm to speak (I can't remember which, I think Netanyahu). It is not at all representative of most Canadian universities in that respect.

I actually didn't see what was so bad about her speech.

 

[pastafarian]

Thanks for posting that, sanch. Now we can have an informed discussion about it. I'd like to draw attention to a couple of quotes:

Yes, we have all seen, and felt, the trauma and pain of the attacks on the United States and are trying to grasp the fact of the numbers of people who died. We feel the pain of those attacks every day as we watch the images being replayed constantly on the television.

Events of the last two weeks also show that the American ‘people’ that Bush is trying to invoke, the American nation that he is invoking, is a people which is bloodthirsty, vengeful, and calling for blood. They don't care whose blood it is, they want blood. And that has to be confronted. We cannot keep calling this an understandable response. We cannot say yes, we understand that this is how people would respond because of the September 11 attacks. We have to stop condoning it and creating a climate of acceptability for this kind of response. We have to call it for what it is: Bloodthirsty vengeance. Some people in the United States are also contesting Bush’s definition of the American nation, which needs to be challenged.

They fought back against the Taliban, and when they were fighting back they said that it was the United States which was helping to put this regime in power. That's what they were saying. They were saying look at U.S. foreign policy! They were trying to draw our attention to who was responsible for this state of affairs, to who was actually supporting repressive regimes, as women all over the Middle East have been doing. We need to take the lead from them and even if there is no American bombing of Afghanistan -- which is what all of us should be working for right now , we must stop any move to bomb Afghanistan -- so even if there is no bombing of Afghanistan, hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people have already been displaced, fleeing the threat of war. You can see the power of America. One word in Washington and millions of people are forced to flee their homes, their communities. So, even if there is no bombing, we have to bear in mind how many women's lives have already been disrupted, destroyed, and that it will take generations for them to put their communities back together again.

In closing, just one word -- the lesson we have learned, and the lesson that our politicians should have learned, is that you cannot slaughter people into submission. For 500 years they have tried that strategy. The West has believed for 500 years that it can slaughter people into submission and it has not been able to do so. It will not be able to do so this time either. Thank you.

So we can begin a clear-headed discussion of this issue by acknowledging that those who said Dr. Thobani said the US "deserved" 9/11 are liars and thus unreliable sources of information.Right?

 

[Curiosity]

At the time of her speech...

Sunara T was employed by the University of British Columbia and she was not even reprimanded for her words. She gave her speech in Ontario (Carlton???) as a visiting speaker and she was well received.

I will never forget that event.

 

[pastafarian]

Why should she have been reprimanded for expressing an opinon?

Particularly one that, had it been, listened to, would have insure 2200 fewer killed and about 20,000 fewer maimed American young people. (Not to mention 100,000 or more Iraqis.)

I wish I'd seen the speech.

 

[pastafarian]

Hey sanch, it was only right-wingers who were scandalized. Hedy Fry, probably just thought Dr. Thobani was going to burn crosses on her lawn or something :lol: :lol: :roll: :wink: .

 

[Jay]

Were there any demands placed on Afghanistan before the war started?