US Invasion of Iraq-Updates
- Thread starter Ocean Breeze
- Start date
Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-Updates
this is so out of touch with reality, it is silly. :roll:
jimmoyer said:
this is so out of touch with reality, it is silly. :roll:
Really ?
Sounds like you are asking America to leave so they can continue their slaughter of the innocents to gain the upper hand through fear, threat, scares.
The moderates need strengthening to fight those clowns who don't mean as well as you do, Ocean Breeze.
Sounds like you are asking America to leave so they can continue their slaughter of the innocents to gain the upper hand through fear, threat, scares.
The moderates need strengthening to fight those clowns who don't mean as well as you do, Ocean Breeze.
..........so tell us , jim.....how are the "Americans" any better???
this is a cesspool of a situation. .....and one that was started consciously/DELIBERATELY by the US. The insurgency.....or "clowns" are there and doing what they are doing BECAUSE if the USG invasion.
If the US had been invaded this same way.........what would Americans and their supporters be called as they fought the invader??? Would you be "clowns" too??? Or would the US simply wave a white flag and say.......come on in...(enter some hearts and flowers here ) and occupy us all you want. Like heck they would.
What in heck do you think the US is doing by bombing the crap out of Iraq??? Killing Iraqis , and fostering more terrorism along the way??? :roll:
How do you think the Iraqis felt as bush championed his drums for the invasion??? THAT , was a THREAT, that created fear in them.....and would bet they were scared to death......and continue to live in fear.
We must both read between the lines. You certainly should follow your own advice and apply skepticism to the articles you CHOOSE to read.
The article about the embargo of that town does not warrant your automatic condemnation.
People are being forced to choose sides. And they got to figure who is going to be the winner and who is going to be better for them in the long run if they can just survive until that happens.
You give no creedence to the power of fear the insurgents are using. You seem to breeze over that deadly matter.
You do not have the best interests for the Iraqis in mind here. You think America leaving is going to accomplish that for them?
A lot of them are getting the bravery to be heroes from the Americans. Every week 200 Iraqi policemen die. And 200 more sign up? You think they don't spit on the body parts of a suicide clown?
Every week a Shi-ite moslem is bombed and terrorized by a clown insurgent.
Whatever blunder you tunnel vision on, the sin of your approach is to leave stranded the heroes that know better than your view.
---------------------
Here's some reading about the insurgents.
You want these clowns in charge?
You think they're better ?
--------------------------
Three Car Bombs Kill 19 in Shiite Area of Capital
Sunni Politician and Son Shot Dead; Filipino Hostage Freed After 8 Months
By Andy Mosher and Bassam Sebti
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, June 23, 2005; A18
BAGHDAD, June 23 -- Three car bombs exploded almost simultaneously in a Shiite Muslim neighborhood of Baghdad after dusk Wednesday, killing at least 19 people. The attacks appeared to be a new attempt to inflame Iraq's sectarian divisions.
The bombs detonated about 9:45 p.m. in the Shuala district, a working-class neighborhood on the city's northern outskirts, witnesses said. News organizations reported that 48 people were wounded.
Residents of the neighborhood said that, unlike recent bombings that have struck Iraqi security forces, the attack took place in an area that had no police stations or other obvious security targets. The Associated Press reported that two of the bombs exploded at restaurants, while the third was directed against a bus station.
With a Shiite-led government in power for the first time in the country's modern history and an insurgency driven by the rival Sunni Muslim minority, Iraq faces sectarian tensions that some say could lead to civil war. Attacks on Shiite civilians that serve to heighten those tensions are widely assumed to be the work of Sunnis.
The insurgents also target Sunnis who cooperate with the government and U.S. and allied military forces.
Hours before the bombings, gunmen opened fire on a car carrying a Sunni politician and legal scholar, Jasim Isawi, and his 18-year-old son, killing them both. Isawi, a former judge and lecturer at Baghdad's College of Islamic Sciences, had earlier been one of several Sunnis nominated to join a committee that is working to write a new constitution for Iraq, according to Salih Mutlak of the National Dialogue Council, a Sunni group. He was not among those currently being considered for inclusion.
Meanwhile, the Iraqi Islamic Party, a leading Sunni organization, announced that one of its members, Abdul Sattar Khazraji, a college professor, died Wednesday after he was shot four times the previous day while on his way to work.
Mutlak said Wednesday that he believed there was "a campaign against Sunni politicians, who have become soft targets. We don't want to have an immediate reaction concerning these assassinations, but if these operations continue, I think many Sunni politicians will stop their participation" in the political process.
Leaders from almost all of Iraq's religious, ethnic and political factions have agreed to try to draw more Sunnis into the political process and away from the nearly two-year-old insurgency. But the process has moved haltingly. During a time of continuing uncertainty, insurgents have carried out frequent attacks on targets that appear calculated to turn Sunnis and Shiites against one another.
The violence in Baghdad continued shortly after dawn Thursday when five explosions shook the Karrada neighborhood, across the Tigris River from the Green Zone, which houses foreign embassies and government offices.
Four car bombs exploded in rapid succession -- one of them outside a Shiite mosque -- about 7:10 a.m., a Defense Ministry spokesman said. In addition, a mortar shell struck near Karrada Hospital, a private clinic.
The ministry did not have immediate casualty reports, but the Reuters news agency reported that at least three people were killed.
Elsewhere, insurgent attacks on U.S. and Iraqi security forces continued. A suicide bombing Wednesday night apparently targeting an Iraqi army patrol in the Ameriyah district of central Baghdad killed at least four bystanders, the Associated Press reported.
In the northern city of Mosul, a car bomb that detonated near a U.S. military patrol killed three Iraqi civilians and wounded seven, the Reuters news agency reported. And U.S. Marines reported that small-arms fire killed two U.S. Army soldiers on Tuesday near the western city of Ramadi.
On Wednesday, a roadside bombing apparently targeting a U.S. military convoy west of Ramadi killed an Iraqi civilian and injured three.
A group of children on bicycles ran over a concealed bomb in Baqubah, northeast of the capital, the Associated Press reported. A 9-year-old boy was killed and two others, ages 6 and 7, were wounded.
In the town of Madain, southeast of Baghdad, a roadside bomb struck an Iraqi police patrol, killing two policeman and wounding two others, the Associated Press reported.
In a separate development, a Filipino held hostage in Iraq since November was released unharmed Wednesday after months of negotiations, according to Philippine government officials quoted by the Reuters news agency.
Robert Tarongoy, an accountant working for a Saudi contractor, was taken hostage on Nov. 1 along with five co-workers when gunmen stormed their villa in Baghdad. Four of the workers were quickly released, but officials believe the hostage-takers are still holding an American, Roy Hallums.
Special correspondents Naseer Nouri and contributed to this report.
The article about the embargo of that town does not warrant your automatic condemnation.
People are being forced to choose sides. And they got to figure who is going to be the winner and who is going to be better for them in the long run if they can just survive until that happens.
You give no creedence to the power of fear the insurgents are using. You seem to breeze over that deadly matter.
You do not have the best interests for the Iraqis in mind here. You think America leaving is going to accomplish that for them?
A lot of them are getting the bravery to be heroes from the Americans. Every week 200 Iraqi policemen die. And 200 more sign up? You think they don't spit on the body parts of a suicide clown?
Every week a Shi-ite moslem is bombed and terrorized by a clown insurgent.
Whatever blunder you tunnel vision on, the sin of your approach is to leave stranded the heroes that know better than your view.
---------------------
Here's some reading about the insurgents.
You want these clowns in charge?
You think they're better ?
--------------------------
Three Car Bombs Kill 19 in Shiite Area of Capital
Sunni Politician and Son Shot Dead; Filipino Hostage Freed After 8 Months
By Andy Mosher and Bassam Sebti
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, June 23, 2005; A18
BAGHDAD, June 23 -- Three car bombs exploded almost simultaneously in a Shiite Muslim neighborhood of Baghdad after dusk Wednesday, killing at least 19 people. The attacks appeared to be a new attempt to inflame Iraq's sectarian divisions.
The bombs detonated about 9:45 p.m. in the Shuala district, a working-class neighborhood on the city's northern outskirts, witnesses said. News organizations reported that 48 people were wounded.
Residents of the neighborhood said that, unlike recent bombings that have struck Iraqi security forces, the attack took place in an area that had no police stations or other obvious security targets. The Associated Press reported that two of the bombs exploded at restaurants, while the third was directed against a bus station.
With a Shiite-led government in power for the first time in the country's modern history and an insurgency driven by the rival Sunni Muslim minority, Iraq faces sectarian tensions that some say could lead to civil war. Attacks on Shiite civilians that serve to heighten those tensions are widely assumed to be the work of Sunnis.
The insurgents also target Sunnis who cooperate with the government and U.S. and allied military forces.
Hours before the bombings, gunmen opened fire on a car carrying a Sunni politician and legal scholar, Jasim Isawi, and his 18-year-old son, killing them both. Isawi, a former judge and lecturer at Baghdad's College of Islamic Sciences, had earlier been one of several Sunnis nominated to join a committee that is working to write a new constitution for Iraq, according to Salih Mutlak of the National Dialogue Council, a Sunni group. He was not among those currently being considered for inclusion.
Meanwhile, the Iraqi Islamic Party, a leading Sunni organization, announced that one of its members, Abdul Sattar Khazraji, a college professor, died Wednesday after he was shot four times the previous day while on his way to work.
Mutlak said Wednesday that he believed there was "a campaign against Sunni politicians, who have become soft targets. We don't want to have an immediate reaction concerning these assassinations, but if these operations continue, I think many Sunni politicians will stop their participation" in the political process.
Leaders from almost all of Iraq's religious, ethnic and political factions have agreed to try to draw more Sunnis into the political process and away from the nearly two-year-old insurgency. But the process has moved haltingly. During a time of continuing uncertainty, insurgents have carried out frequent attacks on targets that appear calculated to turn Sunnis and Shiites against one another.
The violence in Baghdad continued shortly after dawn Thursday when five explosions shook the Karrada neighborhood, across the Tigris River from the Green Zone, which houses foreign embassies and government offices.
Four car bombs exploded in rapid succession -- one of them outside a Shiite mosque -- about 7:10 a.m., a Defense Ministry spokesman said. In addition, a mortar shell struck near Karrada Hospital, a private clinic.
The ministry did not have immediate casualty reports, but the Reuters news agency reported that at least three people were killed.
Elsewhere, insurgent attacks on U.S. and Iraqi security forces continued. A suicide bombing Wednesday night apparently targeting an Iraqi army patrol in the Ameriyah district of central Baghdad killed at least four bystanders, the Associated Press reported.
In the northern city of Mosul, a car bomb that detonated near a U.S. military patrol killed three Iraqi civilians and wounded seven, the Reuters news agency reported. And U.S. Marines reported that small-arms fire killed two U.S. Army soldiers on Tuesday near the western city of Ramadi.
On Wednesday, a roadside bombing apparently targeting a U.S. military convoy west of Ramadi killed an Iraqi civilian and injured three.
A group of children on bicycles ran over a concealed bomb in Baqubah, northeast of the capital, the Associated Press reported. A 9-year-old boy was killed and two others, ages 6 and 7, were wounded.
In the town of Madain, southeast of Baghdad, a roadside bomb struck an Iraqi police patrol, killing two policeman and wounding two others, the Associated Press reported.
In a separate development, a Filipino held hostage in Iraq since November was released unharmed Wednesday after months of negotiations, according to Philippine government officials quoted by the Reuters news agency.
Robert Tarongoy, an accountant working for a Saudi contractor, was taken hostage on Nov. 1 along with five co-workers when gunmen stormed their villa in Baghdad. Four of the workers were quickly released, but officials believe the hostage-takers are still holding an American, Roy Hallums.
Special correspondents Naseer Nouri and contributed to this report.
Even al Qaeda 2 months ago warned the insurgents that their plan of picking Iraqis as "soft targets" will back fire on them.
Right now the insurgent clowns aren't listening. Fear over the populace is their only ally, along with the intellectuals of the world who are more stimulated by American sin.
Right now the insurgent clowns aren't listening. Fear over the populace is their only ally, along with the intellectuals of the world who are more stimulated by American sin.
Iraq and the Polls
By DAVID BROOKS
There's a reason George Washington didn't take a poll at Valley Forge. There are times in the course of war when the outcome is simply unknowable. Victory is clearly not imminent, yet people haven't really thought through the consequences of defeat. Everybody just wants the miserable present to go away.
Everybody just wants the miserable present to go away.
We're at one of those moments in the war against the insurgency in Iraq. The polls show rising disenchantment with the war. Sixty percent of Americans say they want to withdraw some or all troops.
Yet I can't believe majorities of Americans really want to pull out and accept defeat. I can't believe they want to abandon to the Zarqawis and the Baathists those 8.5 million Iraqis who held up purple fingers on Election Day. I can't believe they are yet ready to accept a terrorist-run state in the heart of the Middle East, a civil war in Iraq, the crushing of democratic hopes in places like Egypt and Iran, and the ruinous consequences for American power and prestige.
What they want to do, more likely, is somehow escape the current moment, which is discouraging and uncertain. One of the many problems with fighting an insurgency is that it is nearly impossible to know if we are winning or losing. It's like watching a football game with no goal lines and chaotic action all over the field.
On the one hand, there are signs of progress. U.S. forces have completed a series of successful operations, among them Operation Spear in western Iraq, where at least 60 insurgents were killed and 100 captured, and Operation Lightning in Baghdad, with over 500 arrests. American forces now hold at least 14,000 suspected insurgents, and have captured about two dozen lieutenants of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. There were reports this week of insurgents fighting each other, foreign against domestic.
There is also the crawling political progress that is crucial to success. Sunni leaders now regret not taking part in the elections and Sunnis are helping to draft the constitution.
These tactical victories, however, have not added up to improvement over all. Insurgent attacks are up. Casualties are up. Few Iraqi security forces can operate independently, so far. There aren't enough U.S. troops to hold the ground they conquer. The insurgents are adaptable, organized and still learning.
Still, one thing is for sure: since we don't have the evidence upon which to pass judgment on the overall trajectory of this war, it's important we don't pass judgment prematurely.
It's too soon to accept the defeatism that seems to have gripped so many. If governments surrendered to insurgencies after just a couple of years, then insurgents would win every time. But they don't because insurgencies have weaknesses, exposed over time, especially when they oppose the will of the majority.
It's just wrong to seek withdrawal now, when the outcome of the war is unknowable and when the consequences of defeat are so vast.
Some of you will respond that this is easy for me to say, since I'm not over there. All I'd say is that we live in a democracy, where decisions are made by all. Besides, the vast majority of those serving in Iraq, and their families, said they voted to re-elect President Bush. They seem to want to finish the job.
Others will say we shouldn't be there in the first place. You may be right. Time will tell. But right now, this isn't about your personal vindication. It's about victory for the forces of decency and defeating those, like Zarqawi, who would be attacking us in any case.
On Tuesday, Senator Joe Biden gave a speech in Washington on Iraq, after his most recent visit. It was, in some ways, a model of what the president needs to tell the country in the weeks ahead. It was scathing about the lack of progress in many areas. But it was also constructive. "I believe we can still succeed in Iraq," he said. Biden talked about building the coalition at home that is necessary if we are to get through the 2006 election cycle without a rush to the exits.
Biden's speech brought to mind something Franklin Roosevelt told the country on Feb. 23, 1942: "Your government has unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the worst, without flinching or losing heart. You must, in turn, have complete confidence that your government is keeping nothing from you except information that will help the enemy in his attempt to destroy us."
That's how democracies should fight, even in the age of polling.
E-mail: dabrooks@nytimes.com
By DAVID BROOKS
There's a reason George Washington didn't take a poll at Valley Forge. There are times in the course of war when the outcome is simply unknowable. Victory is clearly not imminent, yet people haven't really thought through the consequences of defeat. Everybody just wants the miserable present to go away.
Everybody just wants the miserable present to go away.
We're at one of those moments in the war against the insurgency in Iraq. The polls show rising disenchantment with the war. Sixty percent of Americans say they want to withdraw some or all troops.
Yet I can't believe majorities of Americans really want to pull out and accept defeat. I can't believe they want to abandon to the Zarqawis and the Baathists those 8.5 million Iraqis who held up purple fingers on Election Day. I can't believe they are yet ready to accept a terrorist-run state in the heart of the Middle East, a civil war in Iraq, the crushing of democratic hopes in places like Egypt and Iran, and the ruinous consequences for American power and prestige.
What they want to do, more likely, is somehow escape the current moment, which is discouraging and uncertain. One of the many problems with fighting an insurgency is that it is nearly impossible to know if we are winning or losing. It's like watching a football game with no goal lines and chaotic action all over the field.
On the one hand, there are signs of progress. U.S. forces have completed a series of successful operations, among them Operation Spear in western Iraq, where at least 60 insurgents were killed and 100 captured, and Operation Lightning in Baghdad, with over 500 arrests. American forces now hold at least 14,000 suspected insurgents, and have captured about two dozen lieutenants of Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. There were reports this week of insurgents fighting each other, foreign against domestic.
There is also the crawling political progress that is crucial to success. Sunni leaders now regret not taking part in the elections and Sunnis are helping to draft the constitution.
These tactical victories, however, have not added up to improvement over all. Insurgent attacks are up. Casualties are up. Few Iraqi security forces can operate independently, so far. There aren't enough U.S. troops to hold the ground they conquer. The insurgents are adaptable, organized and still learning.
Still, one thing is for sure: since we don't have the evidence upon which to pass judgment on the overall trajectory of this war, it's important we don't pass judgment prematurely.
It's too soon to accept the defeatism that seems to have gripped so many. If governments surrendered to insurgencies after just a couple of years, then insurgents would win every time. But they don't because insurgencies have weaknesses, exposed over time, especially when they oppose the will of the majority.
It's just wrong to seek withdrawal now, when the outcome of the war is unknowable and when the consequences of defeat are so vast.
Some of you will respond that this is easy for me to say, since I'm not over there. All I'd say is that we live in a democracy, where decisions are made by all. Besides, the vast majority of those serving in Iraq, and their families, said they voted to re-elect President Bush. They seem to want to finish the job.
Others will say we shouldn't be there in the first place. You may be right. Time will tell. But right now, this isn't about your personal vindication. It's about victory for the forces of decency and defeating those, like Zarqawi, who would be attacking us in any case.
On Tuesday, Senator Joe Biden gave a speech in Washington on Iraq, after his most recent visit. It was, in some ways, a model of what the president needs to tell the country in the weeks ahead. It was scathing about the lack of progress in many areas. But it was also constructive. "I believe we can still succeed in Iraq," he said. Biden talked about building the coalition at home that is necessary if we are to get through the 2006 election cycle without a rush to the exits.
Biden's speech brought to mind something Franklin Roosevelt told the country on Feb. 23, 1942: "Your government has unmistakable confidence in your ability to hear the worst, without flinching or losing heart. You must, in turn, have complete confidence that your government is keeping nothing from you except information that will help the enemy in his attempt to destroy us."
That's how democracies should fight, even in the age of polling.
E-mail: dabrooks@nytimes.com
Four car bombs exploded in rapid succession -- one of them outside a Shiite mosque -- about 7:10 a.m., a Defense Ministry spokesman said. In addition, a mortar shell struck near Karrada Hospital, a private clinic.
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/2005/Provoking War.htm
Americans think that bush did more to incite war than SH.
(GOOD MORNING AMERICA!!!! BRAVO.
Americans think that bush did more to incite war than SH.
(GOOD MORNING AMERICA!!!! BRAVO.
War critics astonished as US hawk admits invasion was illegal.
Oh Duh.... who are they fooling????
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html
Oh Duh.... who are they fooling????
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1089158,00.html
Iraq insurgents snatch victory from defeat
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1513540,00.html
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,1513540,00.html
Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-Updates
things are heating up......in Iraq and in Washington. :!:
suspect there will be a lot more bombings and bloodshed shortly.
DAMN BUSH!!
what was it that bush said about being welcomed with hearts and flowers??? :roll:
moghrabi said:
things are heating up......in Iraq and in Washington. :!:
suspect there will be a lot more bombings and bloodshed shortly.
DAMN BUSH!!
what was it that bush said about being welcomed with hearts and flowers??? :roll:
Re: RE: US Invasion of Iraq-Updates
mog: I swear the guy is psychologically seriously impaired. There is no other explanation for his behavior.
moghrabi said:
mog: I swear the guy is psychologically seriously impaired. There is no other explanation for his behavior.