Understanding the Palestinian Movement.

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
I think not said:
#juan said:
Good post aeon

Unfortunately, none of it will be visible to those conditioned to stand up for Bush no matter what the evidence. :p

Perhaps lop sided evidence #juan, it takes two to tango if my memory serves me correctly.

Exactly :)

FREE ISRAEL
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
I think not said:
#juan said:
Good post aeon

Unfortunately, none of it will be visible to those conditioned to stand up for Bush no matter what the evidence. :p

Perhaps lop sided evidence #juan, it takes two to tango if my memory serves me correctly.


The facts that i brought are acknowledge by the United nations, nice try.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Canadian with a hyphen said:
aeon said:
Canadian with a hyphen said:
The Palestinians aren't after peace . Everything they've ever said, done, published, tells us that what they mean by "peace" is the end of the Jewish project generally, and Israel specifically. We just don't want to believe it. "Peace" equals "peace operations" -- their words. They (at least those in power) have no real interest in a state of their own.

aeon... to keep you updated ;) Palestinians from Fatah and Hamas are crashing with the lebanese army - they intentionally killed one lebanese soldier last week just because the soldier asked teh fatah militant for his rifle's license -( a lebanese soldier on a lebanese land killed by a palestinian) WHY? MAKES ME SICK , MAKES ME ANGRY! This soldier was doing his job on his own land ..
Can u explain this to me ? why do these people enjoy causing trouble everywhere they go? I simply think their definition of peace is a scary one
.


You know what makes me sick? is seeing people who are sitting confortably on their fat ass,getting on oppressed peoples which we never seen since the great wars,and put the blame on them, that makes me so angry, and shows your credibility worth absolutly nothing, we all know you hate arabs, and i can smell it from here, get a grip for once, and talk about our governement who doesnt give a shit about anything, except their stupid war on the poor, i mean terror.

I don't hate arabs aeon...how could I? I am an arab-phoenician myself ...our governements have been trying to help the palestinians for 35 ...aeon ... You and I have talked in PMs about the Barak-Clinton proposal to Arafat and how he and the Palsetinians refused it .It offered them a big chunk of what they wanted...Why did they turn it down?
1- because Arafat was an idiot .
2- the palestinians don't know how to choose leaders.
3-The palestininas either want it all or don't want it at all

and if i am WRONG on this, plz educate me by proving the opposite and while ur doing that :BE NICE! or else :violent1:


1. yes arafat was an idiot, no doubt about it, but i don t see sharon as better, quite far from it, actually he is responsible for the second infitada.

2. stupid comment.

3. palestinians, just want to live their life normally, withouth being sorrounded by walls, withouth being illegally occupied, with human right just like you and me and the 400 000 refugee that cant go back to their native land.

The Oslo agreement would have meant absotly nothing since sharon wasnt for it.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
aeon said:
I think not said:
#juan said:
Good post aeon

Unfortunately, none of it will be visible to those conditioned to stand up for Bush no matter what the evidence. :p

Perhaps lop sided evidence #juan, it takes two to tango if my memory serves me correctly.


The facts that i brought are acknowledge by the United nations, nice try.

The facts are still lop sided.
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
The facts that i brought are acknowledge by the United nations, nice try.

Aren't you the same aeon who constantly posts on these forums about the lies the U.S.tells and how we cannot believe anything they say? Which is it there buddy? Do you trust the U.S., or do you not? Or is it more along the lines of you just being ignorant and casting your lot in with whoever caters to your mood when you get up in the morning?
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
I think not said:
aeon said:
I think not said:
#juan said:
Good post aeon

Unfortunately, none of it will be visible to those conditioned to stand up for Bush no matter what the evidence. :p

Perhaps lop sided evidence #juan, it takes two to tango if my memory serves me correctly.


The facts that i brought are acknowledge by the United nations, nice try.

The facts are still lop sided.

I researched these as well as I could, and found most of them:

Quote:
MoE reports 850 schools temporarily closed,
8 schools turned into military barracks.
185 schools were shelled and fired upon by Israeli soldiers;
11 schools completely destroyed,
9 vandalized.
15 schools used as detention centers and army barracks.
132 Palestinian students killed and 2,500 injured on their way to or from school
1135 school days have been lost because of Israeli attacks37.
During the long invasion in March/April 2002
54, 730 teaching sessions per day were lost due the complete cessation of classes[/quote]

Since the schools were in land not given to the Jews by the UN, it would seem that an inordinate number of schools were targeted. I also know, that the Jews respected the UN boundaries for only about fifteen minutes.
 

Canadian with a hyphen

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2006
348
0
16
Calgary
aeon said:
Canadian with a hyphen said:
aeon said:
Canadian with a hyphen said:
The Palestinians aren't after peace . Everything they've ever said, done, published, tells us that what they mean by "peace" is the end of the Jewish project generally, and Israel specifically. We just don't want to believe it. "Peace" equals "peace operations" -- their words. They (at least those in power) have no real interest in a state of their own.

aeon... to keep you updated ;) Palestinians from Fatah and Hamas are crashing with the lebanese army - they intentionally killed one lebanese soldier last week just because the soldier asked teh fatah militant for his rifle's license -( a lebanese soldier on a lebanese land killed by a palestinian) WHY? MAKES ME SICK , MAKES ME ANGRY! This soldier was doing his job on his own land ..
Can u explain this to me ? why do these people enjoy causing trouble everywhere they go? I simply think their definition of peace is a scary one
.


You know what makes me sick? is seeing people who are sitting confortably on their fat ass,getting on oppressed peoples which we never seen since the great wars,and put the blame on them, that makes me so angry, and shows your credibility worth absolutly nothing, we all know you hate arabs, and i can smell it from here, get a grip for once, and talk about our governement who doesnt give a shit about anything, except their stupid war on the poor, i mean terror.

I don't hate arabs aeon...how could I? I am an arab-phoenician myself ...our governements have been trying to help the palestinians for 35 ...aeon ... You and I have talked in PMs about the Barak-Clinton proposal to Arafat and how he and the Palsetinians refused it .It offered them a big chunk of what they wanted...Why did they turn it down?
1- because Arafat was an idiot .
2- the palestinians don't know how to choose leaders.
3-The palestininas either want it all or don't want it at all

and if i am WRONG on this, plz educate me by proving the opposite and while ur doing that :BE NICE! or else :violent1:


1. yes arafat was an idiot, no doubt about it, but i don t see sharon as better, quite far from it, actually he is responsible for the second infitada.

2. stupid comment.

3. palestinians, just want to live their life normally, withouth being sorrounded by walls, withouth being illegally occupied, with human right just like you and me and the 400 000 refugee that cant go back to their native land.

The Oslo agreement would have meant absotly nothing since sharon wasnt for it.

What r u talking about? and What a waste of my time? what kind of reply was that?
 

Canadian with a hyphen

Electoral Member
Apr 9, 2006
348
0
16
Calgary
aeon said "2. stupid comment"

Moderators- great job on drawing the line to aeon- zoofer was sent for re-education because his views didn't agree with urs but its seems like you guys enjoy aeon's posts and his immaturity- so childish!

aeon- ignorance is a blessing and ur blessed with it ( i am postive that u didn't read my original post nor ur interested in it or anything other that what u know)-

Evveryone else- thanks for great time - I am out of here
 

Mogz

Council Member
Jan 26, 2006
1,254
1
38
Edmonton
Eh don't worry about it hypen. aeon is a fool, I drew that conclusion months ago. His stance is that everyone is ignorant with the exception of him. Keep in mind this is the guy that bashes the U.S. every chance he gets, then turns around and uses them as a supporting pillar for his argument about the Middle East. Not a rational thinker :)
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Mogs, aeon

There is no need for childish name calling. Both you and aeon should know better. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
Published on Sunday, February 11, 2001 in the Raleigh News & Observer
Fundamentally Unfair to Palestinians
by Sarah Shields

CHAPEL HILL -- News coverage of last week's Israeli election inaccurately reframed the players and repositioned the issues. Ehud Barak is presented as a peacemaker whose concessions were spurned by the Palestinians; Palestinian violence led the Israelis to turn their collective back on the peace process and embrace the hard-line Ariel Sharon as prime minister. This narrative is misleading on all counts.

The Oslo Accords, signed in 1993, claimed to be a new beginning, an agreement by which Israel and the Palestinians would gradually resolve the outstanding issues. Israel would withdraw from territory occupied in 1967 in return for peace. But the accords were realized only partially, and the post-Oslo period has been devastating for Palestinians.

By the beginning of September 2000, when the Palestinians began their new uprising, Israel had withdrawn from only 18 percent of the West Bank and Gaza. Israel's Peace Now movement claims that, in the years since Oslo was signed, housing construction in the occupied territories increased by 52 percent, the number of Israeli settlers in occupied territories increased by 53 percent, and 740 Palestinian homes have been demolished. The Israelis imposed complete closure on the occupied territories for more than 300 days during those "peace process" years, closures that inflicted billions of dollars of losses on Palestinians.

What Palestinians saw during the "peace process" was the loss of land and a plummeting standard of living.

International law does not permit the acquisition of territory by force. Occupied people must be respected, their property protected. Richard Falk, a widely respected scholar of international law, points out that "As long as Israel maintains its occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, it is bound to respect the fundamental human rights of the Palestinian people under the Fourth Geneva Convention."

Israeli writer Uri Avnery sums up the Israeli peace movement's view of Barak: "While speaking about peace, he enlarged the settlements. Cut the Palestinian territories into pieces with 'bypass' roads. Confiscated lands. Demolished homes. Uprooted trees. Paralyzed the Palestinian economy. Did not do a thing to put an end to the daily harassment of Palestinian civilians at the hundreds of army roadblocks all over the territories. Caused a huge accumulation of rage in the hearts of the Palestinians. Conducted negotiations in which he tried to dictate to the Palestinians a peace that amounts to capitulation."

Palestinians began a new uprising NOT because they wanted to reject peace but because the Israeli occupation has gone on for decades, and under Barak things seemed to be getting worse. Since Barak took office in July 1999, for example, construction began on 2,270 new housing units in the occupied territories.

As of late last week, "peacemaker" Barak's army had killed 351 and wounded 11,195 Palestinians. Many of them are children. (50 Israelis have died, and 610 have been injured over the same period.) During the present uprising, Israel has attacked medical personnel, killed civilians by shooting into their homes, and relied on live ammunition for crowd control.

Barak claimed that massive force was necessary because stone-throwers threatened Israel's very existence. But stones thrown in occupied territories cannot reach Tel Aviv. If the occupying armies were not in those cities, Israelis would not be threatened.

International agencies, from Amnesty International to Doctors without Borders, have condemned the severity of Israel's actions. American allies throughout the world have called on Israel to abide by its international obligations to its occupied population and stop the violence. Israeli opposition forces have demanded that the Barak government stop killing Palestinians. Only in the United States do we get an undiluted Israeli version of events, a narrative that makes the victims responsible for their own deaths.

Fewer Israelis than ever went to the polls. Israeli Arabs, who had voted overwhelmingly for Barak in the last elections, were appalled by his violent efforts to put down the new uprising. The Israeli peace movement saw no one for whom to vote. Huge demonstrations by Israelis opposed to Sharon have taken place in the past few weeks. With no peace-oriented candidates, Israelis in record numbers stayed home or voted with blank ballots.

Nonetheless, those who voted elected a man widely recognized as a war criminal. Sharon is responsible for the massacre in the Jordanian town of Qibya in 1953, the start of a bloody career. The Israeli Supreme Court held him indirectly responsible for the massacres of nearly 2,000 Palestinians in the refugee camps of Sabra and Shatilla in 1982, and insisted that he give up his Cabinet portfolio. His political rehabilitation has been slow, but he has now achieved his dream.

The likeliest positive outcome of this election will be the ending of the Oslo "peace process." Israelis and Palestinians must now return to U.N. resolutions to create peace. Those resolutions demand the end to occupation and the right for displaced Palestinians to return.

Americans do have a role to play. The United States provides billions of dollars in aid to Israel each year. Israelis advocating peace have long claimed that the U.S. policy of unconditional support for Israel makes their work much harder. They point out that extremist Israeli groups promoting new settlements and the annexation of occupied territory have until now received U.S. aid despite their flagrant disregard of international law.

The news has missed the story on all counts. Neither Palestinians nor Israelis have rejected peace. Both have rejected the violence that continues today. The only way to end that violence is to return to internationally accepted norms of behavior. We must call on Israel to stop the occupation, and we must call on our own government to stop sending all governments in the region the weapons they use to kill their neighbors and their own populations.

Sarah Shields is an associate professor of history at UNC-Chapel Hill who teaches courses in Middle Eastern history and Islamic civilization.

A quiick look at the maps shows what was done to the Palestinians and what a joke Oslo was.

link

 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Re: RE: Understanding the Palestinian Movement.

Mogz said:
Eh don't worry about it hypen. aeon is a fool, I drew that conclusion months ago. His stance is that everyone is ignorant with the exception of him. Keep in mind this is the guy that bashes the U.S. every chance he gets, then turns around and uses them as a supporting pillar for his argument about the Middle East. Not a rational thinker :)

You are telling me i am a fool, but couple post ago, i proved to you that i was right on what israel gov does to the palestinian,instead of proving i was wrong or acknowledge that you were wrong, like a real man would do , you come with a non-sense like free-israel, now who is a fool?

Criticizing us governement foreign policy, military mobilization isnt bashing the us, is actually helping them, to know what people outside the us think about their governement, period.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
#juan said:
Mogs, aeon

There is no need for childish name calling. Both you and aeon should know better. Everyone is entitled to an opinion.


Understood.
 

aeon

Council Member
Jan 17, 2006
1,348
0
36
Canadian with a hyphen said:
What r u talking about? and What a waste of my time? what kind of reply was that?



The only thing you post in here, is about palestinians doing this, and palestinians doing that, we all know what they do, our media, are doing a greeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeat job about it, what they don t do, is reporting what israel does to them, and this is why i post many contreversial subject about usa and israel in here.
 

I think not

Hall of Fame Member
Apr 12, 2005
10,506
33
48
The Evil Empire
#juan said:
I researched these as well as I could, and found most of them:

Quote:
MoE reports 850 schools temporarily closed,
8 schools turned into military barracks.
185 schools were shelled and fired upon by Israeli soldiers;
11 schools completely destroyed,
9 vandalized.
15 schools used as detention centers and army barracks.
132 Palestinian students killed and 2,500 injured on their way to or from school
1135 school days have been lost because of Israeli attacks37.
During the long invasion in March/April 2002
54, 730 teaching sessions per day were lost due the complete cessation of classes

Since the schools were in land not given to the Jews by the UN, it would seem that an inordinate number of schools were targeted. I also know, that the Jews respected the UN boundaries for only about fifteen minutes.

When you realize #juan neither side walks on water, you will understand the meaning of the phrase lop sided.
 

#juan

Hall of Fame Member
Aug 30, 2005
18,326
119
63
When you realize #juan neither side walks on water, you will understand the meaning of the phrase lop sided.

Don't be childish. I know there is fault on both sides. I also know that Israel has been hugely supported, by the U.S. financially as well as militarily. Israelis have killed many times as many Arabs, including women and children, as the Arabs have killed Israelis. What is also lopsided, is the military power of the Israelis. The Israelis occupy all of Palestine, part of Egypt, part of Syria, part of Lebanon, part of Jordan. What is next?
 

Jay

Executive Branch Member
Jan 7, 2005
8,366
3
38
Canadian with a hyphen said:
Evveryone else- thanks for great time - I am out of here [/b][/i][/color]



Your welcome for the great times! :)


Sad to see an example of common sence leave!


I sent you a PM....