U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

I think not

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Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

MikeyDB said:
My major difficulty with ITN is that he or she actually believes that governments aren't run by business!

That's because I stepped out of the Twilight Zone in my early 20's and stopped reading elitist propaganda.
 

Said1

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I don't know ITN. In part, I think the influence of corporate "families" are gone, however I would argue that coporate influence isn't gone altogether.
 

I think not

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Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Said1 said:
I don't know ITN. In part, I think the influence of corporate "families" are gone, however I would argue that coporate influence isn't gone altogether.

Sure there is influence, he didn't say influence though, he said they are run by corporations.
 

Said1

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Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

I think not said:
Said1 said:
I don't know ITN. In part, I think the influence of corporate "families" are gone, however I would argue that coporate influence isn't gone altogether.

Sure there is influence, he didn't say influence though, he said they are run by corporations.

To a large extent, different levels governments base a lot of their decisions based on what's good for corporations. This may not be total control per se, but it's pretty close. It's funny when you get down to district level though, they're not so friendly to the box stores. :lol:
 

MikeyDB

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“First: It's been discovered that Philip Cooney, who is currently the White House's Council on Environmental Quality, altered government reports to cast more doubt on the global warming effects of greenhouse gases than the reports themselves meant. It's no coincidence that prior to his current job, he was a lobbyist for the American Petroleum Institute, a trade group representing the oil industry. He has no scientific training.”

“In briefing papers given before meetings to the US under-secretary of state, Paula Dobriansky, between 2001 and 2004, the administration is found thanking Exxon executives for the company's "active involvement" in helping to determine climate change policy, and also seeking its advice on what climate change policies the company might find acceptable.”

“Even a cursory review of U.S. opinion polling leaves little doubt that America has lost faith in the notion of "government of the people, by the people and for the people." That bedrock belief has been replaced by the perception that "special interests," rather than voters, actually shape public policy. According to a CBS News/New York Times Poll in July 2004, "59% of the American people trust the federal government to do what is right only some of the time," even as 64% responded that "government is pretty much run by a few big interests looking out for themselves."

http://www.verdant.net/corp.htm

Around 17,000 lobbyists work in Washington DC, outnumbering lawmakers in US Congress by about 30 to one.

Nearly half of all US legislators who go into the private sector when they leave Congress join the lobbying industry.

Corporations and lobby groups spent nearly $13 billion influencing US Congress and federal officials from 1998 to 2004 – equivalent to the combined economic output of Cambodia and Ethiopia in 2004.

The pharmaceutical industry spent over $1 billion lobbying
in the US in 2004 alone.

http://www.infact.org/hos.html

Whitewashing the truth has become second nature to Republicans in America if not for all Americans. Differentiating between “influence” and actually “running” government is a game that corporate elitists (particularly Republicans) love to play. Suggesting that Carlyle Group doesn’t through its “influence” impact US defense policy is like suggesting that Dick Chaney isn’t involved with Haliburton and KBR.

These folk have to dismiss the notion that the United States of America is actually the United States of America INC. so that a virtually unlimited number of peculiar correlations between say the war in Iraq and U.S. foreign policies pertaining to who gets to steal Iraqi oil can be kept low on the public radar.

These are the same folk who championed Ollie and Ronny in supplying missiles to Iran…. Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powel supplying WMD to Saddam Hussein during the Iran-Iraq war…..

Between the defense industry and petroleum interest representation in Congress and the Senate, those poor poor lumbermen who’ve managed to steal billions from Canada risk being lost in the shuffle…..

Nah business doesn’t run America, the Whitehouse came up with the idea of imposing an illegal tariff on Canadian lumber on their own…..

YEAH RIGHT….

I could spend the time providing links and references, but puppets of the neo-cons participating on forums all over the Internet don’t have to prove anything they can simply dismiss and deny. The real evil that’s loose in America today is the willingness to warp the truth and re-shape reality to fit the “make-a-buck” mentality that has become America’s highest and most noble virtue.

Rampant conspicuous and unbridled consumerism and the attendant ecological destruction that follows has been and will be “pooh pooh-ed” away until there isn’t a clean drop of water to drink or a breath of clean air to breathe. These folk don’t give a shit about anything but power and money.

These folk have contorted patriotism into consumerism and Canadians should understand that as far as these folk are concerned…. “anything goes” when it comes to satisfying the American appetite and the sense of entitlement felt by the vast majority of Americans.

Water will be next after the oil runs out, but hey when you’ve built the largest military machine that’s ever existed in the history of mankind…you can do whatever you like…

Military spending in the US is one of the major “influences” through which Congress and the Senate are controlled. You should check out how much money is involved and ask yourself if you really think the decisions coming out of the Whitehouse or the Congress or the Senate are decisions made in the interests of the people of America….or are in fact, decisions made in the interests of millionaire industrialists embedded in the defense industry…..
 

I think not

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MikeyDB said:
I could spend the time providing links and references, but puppets of the neo-cons participating on forums all over the Internet don’t have to prove anything they can simply dismiss and deny. The real evil that’s loose in America today is the willingness to warp the truth and re-shape reality to fit the “make-a-buck” mentality that has become America’s highest and most noble virtue.

Rampant conspicuous and unbridled consumerism and the attendant ecological destruction that follows has been and will be “pooh pooh-ed” away until there isn’t a clean drop of water to drink or a breath of clean air to breathe. These folk don’t give a shit about anything but power and money.

These folk have contorted patriotism into consumerism and Canadians should understand that as far as these folk are concerned…. “anything goes” when it comes to satisfying the American appetite and the sense of entitlement felt by the vast majority of Americans.

Water will be next after the oil runs out, but hey when you’ve built the largest military machine that’s ever existed in the history of mankind…you can do whatever you like…

Military spending in the US is one of the major “influences” through which Congress and the Senate are controlled. You should check out how much money is involved and ask yourself if you really think the decisions coming out of the Whitehouse or the Congress or the Senate are decisions made in the interests of the people of America….or are in fact, decisions made in the interests of millionaire industrialists embedded in the defense industry…..

:lol:

I get paid $40 an hour to post on forums, I'm do for a raise. :D
 

I think not

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I don't go to church. GASP! 8O Put's a damper on your theories huh? See it's like this MikeyDB, you along with those before you, and those after you, have nothing new to say, you constantly beat a dead horse, and people are getting tired of listening.

It's always about corporations running the world, starting oil wars and the like. It's always about American "culture", "truth and justice", "freedom and liberty" always in quotes, carefully deconstructing everything down to a morality play. Nothing has changed in the views of your ilk, it's always the same blather.

So you will have to forgive me fo rnot taking you serious anymore, your first post on this board showed a promise of debate, but alas, it only takes a few more posts to see what your true colors are.

You have no room for debate, all you have room for is demagoguery, thanks but no thanks. Try something new, with evidence supporting your claims, not opinion articles and try to stay away from Pravda.
 

MikeyDB

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ITN

Carpetbaggers and men without conscience have been around forever ITN and the only thing that's kept freedom alive (although in these days of PAX Americana and The New World Order) getting the truth out there is becoming more and more difficult.

There is nothing to debate with folk subscribing to views like yours, its just like trying to debate "god" with the believer...

An entrenched nearly fanatical belief leaves no room for debate so the only alternative is to present the truth for people to judge for themselves. Of course folk like you and George Bush have tried and continue to try to keep anyone from the truth at any cost.
 

#juan

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I don't go to church. GASP! Shocked Put's a damper on your theories huh? See it's like this MikeyDB, you along with those before you, and those after you, have nothing new to say, you constantly beat a dead horse, and people are getting tired of listening.

It's always about corporations running the world, starting oil wars and the like. It's always about American "culture", "truth and justice", "freedom and liberty" always in quotes, carefully deconstructing everything down to a morality play. Nothing has changed in the views of your ilk, it's always the same blather.

So you will have to forgive me fo rnot taking you serious anymore, your first post on this board showed a promise of debate, but alas, it only takes a few more posts to see what your true colors are.

.

Thank goodness nobody died and made you the judge ITN. Your ever-sarcastic put downs are certainly not evidence of anything but your pro-Republican, pro-Bush stance on on everything.

That you prefer to laugh off the litany of lies that led to the invasion of iraq only detracts from your already suffering credibility.

Before you call someone else's posts "blather", have a good look at your own.
 

I think not

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Re: RE: U.S.-CANADA RELATIONS

Watch how everything fits as soon as I change a few words around. For your reading pleasure they are in bold.

MikeyDB said:
MikeyDB

Carpetbaggers and men without conscience have been around forever MikeyDB and the only thing that's kept freedom alive (although in these days of Socialist cesspools and Oppressive Socialist Regimes) getting the truth out there is becoming more and more difficult.

There is nothing to debate with folk subscribing to views like yours, its just like trying to debate "Karl Marx" with the believer...

An entrenched nearly fanatical belief leaves no room for debate so the only alternative is to present the truth for people to judge for themselves. Of course folk like you and Jack Layton have tried and continue to try to keep anyone from the truth at any cost.

There, all fixed.
 

I think not

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#juan said:
Thank goodness nobody died and made you the judge ITN. Your ever-sarcastic put downs are certainly not evidence of anything but your pro-Republican, pro-Bush stance on on everything.

That you prefer to laugh off the litany of lies that led to the invasion of iraq only detracts from your already suffering credibility.

Before you call someone else's posts "blather", have a good look at your own.

I'm not pro-Republican or pro-Bush, but hey, thanks for the compliment. :D
 

MikeyDB

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I don’t want to give anyone the impression that I believe that America is all bad, completely and totally corrupt and the single most dangerous evil the world has ever seen. I lived and worked in the U.S. for years and this strange willingness to embrace the belief (conditioned) that the world exists solely for the benefit of American industry is found in only a minority of those weak-willed and uneducated that insist that “progress” and “prosperity” necessarily demands resigning from humanity. Resigning from a recognition of the precarious situation we as a species find ourselves in aboard this little life raft whirling through space. Resigning from the sense of responsibility for ones actions that comes with maturing beyond childhood.

Millions of Americans are as outraged with the corruption of the Bush administration and are keenly aware that the wealthy elite currently in power is trashing their Constitution.

Guantanamo and the hoax of WMD in Iraq, Abu Ghraib and the gushing fountain of lies witnessed on American media (CNN and Fox) are as embarrassing for many Americans as they are repugnant to the thinking world that lives outside the quasi-fascist state the Republicans are attempting to establish as the United States.

In all of American history there’s never been the control and manipulation of media we see in America today. Yes there have been egregious war-mongering misadventures like Iran-Contra, the Gulf of Tonkin “incident” cruise missile attacks on foreign nations (acts of both overt and covert war) and decades of support for bloody dictatorships across the face of the planet.

It’s important to remember that America emerged through revolution and has exhibited a willingness to self-sacrifice in enormous numbers (American Civil War) in pursuit of identity.

Those who through both skilled entrepreneurial ship and plain lawlessness who’ve achieve positions of power and great wealth can manipulate any democracy.

American’s struggle and have struggled since the beginning to define themselves. Unfortunately and as many American intellectuals writers and politicians have noted over the years, America has yet to escape its adolescence and put its childish “me-first” agenda behind. These times in which we live, where technology has given madmen and tyrants, the sublimely ignorant and the willfully dangerous weapons of terrible power and where some have turned their skills to manipulation and efforts to control, the unsavory side of America is what’s been capturing our attention since just prior to September 11/2001, through the lies presented at the UN and the cascade of multi-billion dollar scandals that have filled our airwaves and newspapers to the barbarism of the Iraq invasion.

We should be wary, for it is only the imprudent who choose to ignore the facts and subscribe to apathy while people like George Bush and Dick Chaney, Donald Rumsfeld and John Ashcroft scheme to establish American Rule over the entire planet.

We face critical planetary changes in terms of the availability of potable water and clean air. We are faced with confronting global climate change and if we listen to these folk, it will be (and already may be) too late to make any difference. Petro-wars, provoking anxiety and corrupting the truth are the tools of the trade of too many Americans in the Whitehouse and Pentagon today.

Millions of Americans are aware of the danger and protests throughout the land are evidence that despite the manipulations and lies that many people are aware of the dangers lurking in the very heart of America.
 

#juan

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Great post MikeyDB

We have to work to get past the "Yer with us, or yer with the terrorists" syndrome.
 

I think not

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MikeyDB said:
I don’t want to give anyone the impression that I believe that America is all bad, completely and totally corrupt and the single most dangerous evil the world has ever seen.

What ever gave you that idea? :lol: