Tragedy at the Yellow Quill Reserve

[dancing-loon]

I will not respond individually! This topic is an open sore and accusations, slander and misunderstandings abound. Besides, I truly don't know anything personally, I can only speculate.
I'll read quietly and see if I can learn something.

So long!

 

[jenn]

I will not respond individually! This topic is an open sore and accusations, slander and misunderstandings abound. Besides, I truly don't know anything personally, I can only speculate.
I'll read quietly and see if I can learn something.

So long!

and that is part of the problem.. speculation...

 

[Outta here]

I'll read quietly and see if I can learn something.

Dancing Loon - there is so much wisdom in that statement - I wish more would know when is the time to stop and listen with both ears. You're fine... don't stop contributing, but I hope you continue to keep your mind open to the possibility that there's always more to learn... that's an admirable quality, imo. ;-)

 

[dancing-loon]

Thank you, Zan... you are so right!

 

[Unforgiven]

so tell me...what is so special about white man?

If you step way back in time to tribal manifestations there is one group who use a method that requires assimilation or obliteration. This is the White man. Specifically the method is tagged to the White man, who has use it most recently, over the last thousand years or so. But before that, it was the same method, Assimilate or obliterate through many an empire.

It's effective if the goal is to open up new territory for exploitation which is what we still keep as a primary focus. Do Natives feel any different than those who were conquered by Rome, or Greece and so on? I expect it's really about the same all things considered.

Look at the state of the Roman empire today. Many great things came from that empire but you really don't see the lives that were mowed down during the advance of that culture over others. At least there isn't anyone talking about the harm the Roman expansion had on their culture. Forgotten news these days.

I expect it will be much the same with Afro-American and Native culture in a thousand years.

 

[CDNBear]

I will not respond individually! This topic is an open sore and accusations, slander and misunderstandings abound. Besides, I truly don't know anything personally, I can only speculate.
I'll read quietly and see if I can learn something.

So long!

What would you like to know?

I've been described by some, as an extremely moderate "Injun", so much so, I've also been called an apple, but I like to consider myself a realist.

I think I have a unique perspective and am capable of sharing facts, lightly mixed with only my interpretation of said facts.

 

[jenn]

If you step way back in time to tribal manifestations there is one group who use a method that requires assimilation or obliteration. This is the White man. Specifically the method is tagged to the White man, who has use it most recently, over the last thousand years or so. But before that, it was the same method, Assimilate or obliterate through many an empire.

It's effective if the goal is to open up new territory for exploitation which is what we still keep as a primary focus. Do Natives feel any different than those who were conquered by Rome, or Greece and so on? I expect it's really about the same all things considered.

Look at the state of the Roman empire today. Many great things came from that empire but you really don't see the lives that were mowed down during the advance of that culture over others. At least there isn't anyone talking about the harm the Roman expansion had on their culture. Forgotten news these days.

I expect it will be much the same with Afro-American and Native culture in a thousand years.

maybe so... but we are also talking about things that happened in some cases less than 100 yrs ago... for some.. families that are just 1 or 2 generations past... I am sure in thousands of years the wounds will be healed... yet for some it is... if things were different... what would life have been like...

 

[Unforgiven]

maybe so... but we are also talking about things that happened in some cases less than 100 yrs ago... for some.. families that are just 1 or 2 generations past... I am sure in thousands of years the wounds will be healed... yet for some it is... if things were different... what would life have been like...

I don't know if you can say what if in this case. What if there were no people here? What if it was the Spanish via Cortez that came here? There are people being displaced today due to expansionism of the new empire and so an a couple of hundred years, there will be more people who have been wronged to replace all those who have passed away and been forgotten.

The problem isn't the people who are displaced in this lifetime, the last or the next. It's the method which once you dissect it, is the unsustainable, and most harmful method. We have to either make up our collective minds to work at stopping that method and implementing viable alternatives or await the inevitable revolution to over through the small segment of elite "Takers" by the "Leavers".

 

[CDNBear]

I don't know if you can say what if in this case. What if there were no people here? What if it was the Spanish via Cortez that came here? There are people being displaced today due to expansionism of the new empire and so an a couple of hundred years, there will be more people who have been wronged to replace all those who have passed away and been forgotten.

The problem isn't the people who are displaced in this lifetime, the last or the next. It's the method which once you dissect it, is the unsustainable, and most harmful method. We have to either make up our collective minds to work at stopping that method and implementing viable alternatives or await the inevitable revolution to over through the small segment of elite "Takers" by the "Leavers".

 

[Walter]

maybe so... but we are also talking about things that happened in some cases less than 100 yrs ago... for some.. families that are just 1 or 2 generations past... I am sure in thousands of years the wounds will be healed... yet for some it is... if things were different... what would life have been like...

On the reservation near my neck of the woods 100 years would be more like 6 or 7 generations for most families. The families who have moved off the reservation do not have such a legacy.

 

[Wondering]

I really don't understand

To the average person (who quite frankly doesn't understand) it would seem on the outside that people living on reserves have everything that they would need to succeed in life. They have housing, medical care and education provided for, and no taxes on the money they earn on the reserve. The only thing that I can see that holds them back is themselves. Why do not more take advantage of the systems in place to better their life style? Our children will end up owing on average 40,000.00 each when they are done their schooling. We don't have a medical plan so every filled touth in their heads is paid for out of our pockets and I have been paying for 25 years on my little house and we have done this on much less than 40,000.00 per year not withstanding the government programs that have helped along the way. To some this may sound racist but I do not consider myself so I just really don't understand......

 

[CDNBear]

First off, let me assure you, you are not coming across as a racist. Asking for clarification is not racist.

To the average person (who quite frankly doesn't understand) it would seem on the outside that people living on reserves have everything that they would need to succeed in life.

This is not completely true, despite what some would have you believe.

They have housing,

Which at one point was contracted by the Federal Gov't and was substandard at the time it was built, let alone some umpteen years after the fact, no matter the upkeep or neglect.

When the Federal Gov't opened the doors to limited self Gov't among the Native Nations. There were limited safe guards in place to protect against crony-ism, nepotism, and out right theft and corruption.

This of course should not be brought to bear on anyone but the perpetrators. And thus the Native populous.

medical care

As the RoC sees the dwindling availability of access to proper healthcare, a great number of Native peoples have been in that position for decades.

Due largely to reasons of access and location, but none the less a very real detrimental cause.

education provided for

This is both, correct and incorrect. On reserve, you are granted exceptional access to education. Sadly, the bulk of the population is reluctant to use this benefit for multiple reasons. The bulk if not all, are unreasonable, IMHO.

no taxes on the money they earn on the reserve.

Which is true, but only available to those that reside on a reserve and earn said monies on reserve.

Though there are a great number of industries on reserves, ranging in type, from light manufacturing to resource development and utilization, the bulk of the proceeds are not alotted to the average 'Injun', and we are again forced to look at corruption and theft.

The only thing that I can see that holds them back is themselves.

I will agree. Apathy, sloth, waste and corruption have become reasonable in the day to day life of Natives. Sadly. No amount of bitching from Natives, like myself, and others, have turned the heads of the masses and I have little hopes that that will change in the near future.

We are our own worst enemies.

We perpetuate stereotypes, we feed MSM with enough negative material and the loudest among us come off greedy and ignorant. Likely because they are.

Why do not more take advantage of the systems in place to better their life style?

For lack of a better answer, shear ignorance.

Our children will end up owing on average 40,000.00 each when they are done their schooling.

And so will many Natives children.

We don't have a medical plan so every filled touth in their heads is paid for out of our pockets and I have been paying for 25 years on my little house and we have done this on much less than 40,000.00 per year not withstanding the government programs that have helped along the way.

And I as well, and I am Native.

The singularly most important thing to understand is, not every Native is able to prfit from the system. Not every Native is willing to suckle at the proverbial Gov't teet either. Contrary to popular myth.

To some this may sound racist but I do not consider myself so I just really don't understand......

Not at all, and I hope I can help shed some light on your questions.

 

[#juan]

Ummm, do you even know the difference in cost from where you live to where a large portion of the Native population live?

Do you know what a head of lettuce costs in Espanola Ontario?

A litre of gas?

Give you head a shake.

Not to mention, that $36,000, is not an actual cheque that people get and cash. I for one would love to know where I can sign up for it. I could pay down my mortgage in no time.

Hence why juan's posts are nothing more then racist hyperbole.

As always bear you don't read. I clearly said that the natives were not given that money. The roughly $9000.00 per person represents money dumped into that out of control, black hole they call the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. The best thing that could happen is that that department is shut down and replaced with something that works.

Native problems can't be fixed by just throwing money at them. Davis Inlet was a great example of useless spending that solves nothing. They built a whole new town with new houses, sewer and water and electricity. The cost was around $350 million. About five years later, the place is a dump already. Is this the whiteman's fault? Yes. We should have used the money to provide education to teach them marketable skills, and find jobs for them and they can build their own houses.

 

[CDNBear]

As always bear you don't read.

In my defense juan, the post you quoted was not directed at you.

The post that was directed at you...

$36,000 for a family of four. That is a lot of money for one group!!!???

Have you ever lived on that amount of income in some of the most expensive places on earth?

I think not, this only strengthens my assertion that you are without a doubt a complete racist juan.

The facts stare you right in the face and you negate them, dismiss them with contempt and vitriol. That is the cornerstone of the word racist.

Which of course was in response to this...

I know the natives don't receive this money but when we consider that there are about a million natives and the money spent works out to about $9,000.00 for every man woman and child or $36,000.00 for a family of four. That is a lot of money for one group.

Though I didn't quite hit the nail on the head, to which I will concede and apologize. It is not one group consuming these funds, it is at least 2 and sometimes 3 groups. Federal Bureaucratic consumers, Provincial Bureaucratic consumers and sometimes Regional Bureaucratic consumers.

Your attempt to pin the whole of the funds on a singular groups, which has been the case for years with you. Is of course the bulk of our conflict.

I clearly said that the natives were not given that money. The roughly $9000.00 per person represents money dumped into that out of control, black hole they call the Department of Indian and Northern Affairs. The best thing that could happen is that that department is shut down and replaced with something that works.

No you didn't, and I'll refer you to the post already quoted attributed to you at the beginning of this reply.

Now that you have clarified how you truly feel and about what. I whole heartedly agree!!!

And please note that so at future dates, you can see that we have some common ground. I know I will.

Native problems can't be fixed by just throwing money at them.

Dear God, two common agreements in one post!!

Davis Inlet was a great example of useless spending that solves nothing. They built a whole new town with new houses, sewer and water and electricity. The cost was around $350 million. About five years later, the place is a dump already. Is this the whiteman's fault? Yes. We should have used the money to provide education to teach them marketable skills, and find jobs for them and they can build their own houses.

I now believe the world is coming to an end!!!

That makes three agreements in one post.

If this was the norm in your commentary, I would be less likely to accuse your posts of seeming racist in nature, and by extension, yourself. So I'll retract that, at this time and apologize.

 

[dancing-loon]

This is a very good link, especially for people like me who did not go to school here and so not learned the Canadian history.
http://www.ammsa.com/classroom/CLASS1TAXES.html

The following is also a good link. It points out the incompetence of the Native Leaders of the Yellow Quill community. Apparently they had stashed away a nest egg of $29 million. If true, then there was no reason for them to live in such poverty.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/rethinkingthereserve/story.html?id=280526

In this link they talk about the out-of-control unemployment in Native Communities.

"Just imagine, if you will, the state that Canadian society would be in if its unemployment rate was at 80% "
http://www.tgmag.ca/magic/mt2.html
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Bear, were you saying that from the $9 billion allotted to the Natives the department of Native and Northern Affairs also gets paid and the Provincial departments as well? In case I did not misunderstand you, I would find that praxis impossibly dumb. Why would the government of Canada pay itself twice? But, I believe roads to and within the Communities, their water and sewage costs and the garbage collection would have to be paid out of that sum.

 

[CDNBear]

This is a very good link, especially for people like me who did not go to school here and so not learned the Canadian history.
http://www.ammsa.com/classroom/CLASS1TAXES.html

It's tad biased, but is fairly correct.

The following is also a good link. It points out the incompetence of the Native Leaders of the Yellow Quill community. Apparently they had stashed away a nest egg of $29 million. If true, then there was no reason for them to live in such poverty.
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/canada/rethinkingthereserve/story.html?id=280526

Saying there's incompetence in Native leadersip, is like saying if you go swimming you'll get wet.

In this link they talk about the out-of-control unemployment in Native Communities.

"Just imagine, if you will, the state that Canadian society would be in if its unemployment rate was at 80% "
http://www.tgmag.ca/magic/mt2.html

With a very great many reserves in none industrial centers, you think this is unrealistic?

Bear, were you saying that from the $9 billion allotted to the Natives the department of Native and Northern Affairs also gets paid and the Provincial departments as well? In case I did not misunderstand you, I would find that praxis impossibly dumb.

Your point?

Why would the government of Canada pay itself twice?

Why would they use the courts to force their choice of a Native leader on a band, only to be forced to investing the loss of millions of dollars under his watch later?

But, I believe roads to and within the Communities, their water and sewage costs and the garbage collection would have to be paid out of that sum.

And again, your point?

I'm not entirely sure what you're driving at.

 

[dancing-loon]

You are not very helpful, Bear, and certainly not friendly!

All I want is a dialog of fact and opinion exchanges, not a snappy answer... you TURTLE!!;-)

 

[Avro]

Honestly, I wish someone of greatness would take control of the natural dwellers of this land and make them into something instead of this generational chasm losers.